Hayyoth Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I'm not an expert, but lead acid batteries don't like it at all when you actuallly drain them. That should make them rather poor energy storage devices. Um no. Tesla is selling it's 'powerwall' at $3000 for its 7 kWh set up and $3500 for it's 10 kWh set up, and that's to wholesale customers only. Retail expect to pay 50% above that, so lets say $5-6000. Note the actual draw down you'll get from these systems, without severely compromising their shelf life, will be half the stated capacity. So sensibly using a 7 kWh system at a 50% draw down, which will give you around 3,000 cycles, which means you have a 3.5kWh system in reality for your $5000. Note also that a lead acid system is compatible with standard commodity inverters/chargers which the Tesla system is definitely not (the above prices do nor include inverters). You'll get around 3,000 cycles from a decent lead acid battery with a 35% draw down, and that's being very conservative. 4 of them will produce around 3-4KwH at a 35-50% draw down comparable to the cheaper Tesla system. For this you're looking at a total spend of around $2200 to $2500 total cost, compared to the powerwall with inverter/charger of ? $7000. Yes lithium chemistry does have advantages where high draw rate, weight and mass are important, but that isn't in a domestic fixed standby or cyclic power system. But hey if you hate money go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Tesla raises all kinds of red flags with me. Musk waves around a new shiny object every week to distract us from the ones before that have yet to bear fruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I'm not an expert, but lead acid batteries don't like it at all when you actuallly drain them. That should make them rather poor energy storage devices. They might be poor. But there is decades worth of experience running them that way, since they are used as power banks in diesel-electric submarines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 This guy down the street from me converted his 90s Toyota Celica into a fully electric car, it runs on a trunk bank of lead/acid batteries that came out of a Chinese submarine. He gets about 100 miles on a charge, which I think he said was a 40 or 50% drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Is cool you're white knighting and all but if you'd taken a second you might have realized that I wasn't commenting on the poster but the article he/she was linking to. The amount of crap I read regarding supposed 'game changing' environmental technology, a classic was the idea of putting wind turbines on cars which would supposedly generate electicity while they were being driven, a bright 8 year old would have been able to work out why that brilliant idea couldn't work, but I actually read articles from grown adults seriously discussing the idea. Then there's solar sidewalks (facepalm) The advantage of lithium batteries is their relative light weight and smaller size. In a domestic setting you're far better off with a lead acid set up, they're cheaper will operate just as well and the little bit of extra space they take up will be more than made up for the fact you'll be saving thousands of dollars and won't have a potential fire hazzard living in your garage or basement. No what you were doing was making a baseless generalization from what one poster said There was no article, it was just a link directly to the company's website. So you either didn't even look at what you were making your baseless generatlization about or you are just lying now to cover for your bullshit. Either way your response here just makes it look even more like you have no idea wtf you are on about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I really regret that there isn't money to be made in going around to seniors and explaining to them that the "Billionaire says crash coming" ad on the side of their interwebs screen is not actually news. There damn well should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I really regret that there isn't money to be made in going around to seniors and explaining to them that the "Billionaire says crash coming" ad on the side of their interwebs screen is not actually news. There damn well should be. You could start your own ad. "One easy trick to determine whether or not the blurb on the side of your intrawebs screen is an ad or a news story" (Intraweb Admen Hate It) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I really regret that there isn't money to be made in going around to seniors and explaining to them that the "Billionaire says crash coming" ad on the side of their interwebs screen is not actually news. There damn well should be. Seniors have always been a prime target for scam artists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Seniors have always been a prime target for scam artists. I worked at a retirement community for about two weeks on the grounds keeping crew, and after clearing the background check, there was a video I had to watch, deemed mandatory by the state of California, about how it's not okay to rip off seniors of their money. The scariest part was the tone of the video was basically "we know it's easy, and we kind of want to rip them off too, but just don't. Please." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I worked at a retirement community for about two weeks on the grounds keeping crew, and after clearing the background check, there was a video I had to watch, deemed mandatory by the state of California, about how it's not okay to rip off seniors of their money. The scariest part was the tone of the video was basically "we know it's easy, and we kind of want to rip them off too, but just don't. Please." I have a lot of goals remaining in whatever amount of time The Ether sees fit to give me, but one of my top goals is to protect my parents. One of my next is to catch some MF who tries to hurt them. Actually, shit. This should be a new trend. I think that people that prey upon seniors should themselves be preyed upon. Is there an official name for people who prey upon seniors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I have a lot of goals remaining in whatever amount of time The Ether sees fit to give me, but one of my top goals is to protect my parents. One of my next is to catch some MF who tries to hurt them. Actually, shit. This should be a new trend. I think that people that prey upon seniors should themselves be preyed upon. Is there an official name for people who prey upon seniors? Republicans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Republicans? BAM! http://s1336.photobucket.com/user/Lumpy67/media/ColbertStewartkudos_zpsc60ead8d.gif.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordos Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 I will re-visit this thread on October 12th when the predicted crisis is due. By the way, Herman Mulder does not have a Wikipedia page but my father does. So here is my dad and the guy that told me what national debt is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Smits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 If you're looking for a crash, aside from the large recent drop in Bunds (10yr yields went from 5bps to 70bps in a few days), then the Chinese stock market likes primed for a correction. But it's really difficult to know when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Republicans?Damn!You beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 If you're looking for a crash, aside from the large recent drop in Bunds (10yr yields went from 5bps to 70bps in a few days), then the Chinese stock market likes primed for a correction. But it's really difficult to know when. Lets be honest, if you predict a crash of some kind is going to happen your going to be correct sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordos Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 Two months to go now. Even if Mulder's prediction turns out to be true, the question is how severe will the crisis be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamSongs Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 If you have your investments spread out over different sectors, then you shouldn't have a problem. Most people invest for the long-term and you should look at overall growth averages rather than just bubble years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 LtI, You shall not crucify mankind upon this cross of gold. You shall not press down upon his brows this crown of thorny bitcoin. Bimetallism for the win! Thank you William Jennings Bryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Regarding batteries: Back in the early nineties I saw an article about kenetic batteries that used a flywheel stored in a magnetic bottle. I take it nothing came of this idea? From the Wikipedia on flywheels:Flywheels are not as adversely affected by temperature changes, can operate at a much wider temperature range, and are not subject to many of the common failures of chemical rechargeable batteries.[46] They are also less potentially damaging to the environment, being largely made of inert or benign materials. Another advantage of flywheels is that by a simple measurement of the rotation speed it is possible to know the exact amount of energy stored. Unlike most batteries which only operate for a finite period (for example roughly 36 months in the case of lithium ion polymer batteries), a flywheel potentially has an indefinite working lifespan. Flywheels built as part of James Watt steam engines have been continuously working for more than two hundred years.[47][not in citation given] Working examples of ancient flywheels used mainly in milling and pottery can be found in many locations in Africa, Asia, and Europe.[48][49] Most modern batteries are typically a sealed device that needs minimal maintenance throughout its service life. Magnetic bearing flywheels in a vacuum enclosure, such as the NASA model depicted above, do not need any bearing maintenance and are therefore superior to batteries both in terms of total lifetime and energy storage capacity. Flywheel systems with mechanical bearings will have a limited lifespan due to wear. The arrangement of batteries can be designed to a wide variety of configurations, whereas a flywheel at a minimum must occupy a square surface area. Where space is a constraint for the application of energy storage (e.g. under trains in tunnels) the flywheel may not be a valid application. Why aren't we using magnetic flywheels to store electricity again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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