Has the show lost it's heart?

[The Knight in Motley]

The show hasn't lost its heart.

HBOsteros put its' heart in the arena to be butchered to the cries of up-roaring applause. They threw it in the arena with a paper shield and told it to fight against the hulking mass of bloodsport for who would win the Plot's favor. And while major players sat in the shade and discussed how the Heart of the books had been so expertly laid out, Bloodsport decapitated Heart.

[Takyon]

To quote a fellow from Reddit, "the reason bad things happen on GoT has changed: GoT has gone from being a show that wouldn't cheat to help the good guys to a show that will cheat to help the bad guys".

The show's blatant manipulations have made their would-be-shock-moments come across as less dramatic than mean-spirited (and not to mention contrived).

[Damp Hair - The Prophet]

so much YES

[Lerxst]

I'm enjoying the TV show just like I loved the books.

But to be honest, the acting is good but it's lost its content and background quite hard.

It's kind of upsetting that the producers of the show just focus on just a few families when there is a wide range in westeros, the siege on Winterfell was so disappointing, just Baratheon men against Bolton, no allies and just a quick ass kicking.

What about the Umbers, Freys, Ryswells, Dustins, Cerwyns, Tallharts, Mormonts, Glovers...

Towards the first seasons, ok, the details like armour is odd due to budget, understandable. But they actually had banners of many individual houses and took into account their existence. I was really hoping to see a few Northern Mountain Clansmen in Stannis's Army with all different Banners with an epic siege, with their kind of budget it sucked ass to be honest.

Oh god no! The best part about season 1 IMO was that you only had 2 stories to follow mostly, A good 20-30 minutes per region/character/scene - Eddard and Daenerys. After 9 episodes, you had that much more of a connection with them, so when Eddard lost his head... well, you just felt that much more betrayed.

Then they started with more plot lines, more stories, more characters, etc. etc. etc. Now each episode feels more like a teaser for the next episode. And then the season ends and leaves us feeling like something was missing.

[Eltharion21]

Yes it lost heart, sanity , some good cast and characters , only if it would loose showrunners , but in 2 seasons to the end it is futile like finding Gendry's boat.

[Lord Freypie]

Oh god no! The best part about season 1 IMO was that you only had 2 stories to follow mostly, A good 20-30 minutes per region/character/scene - Eddard and Daenerys. After 9 episodes, you had that much more of a connection with them, so when Eddard lost his head... well, you just felt that much more betrayed.

Then they started with more plot lines, more stories, more characters, etc. etc. etc. Now each episode feels more like a teaser for the next episode. And then the season ends and leaves us feeling like something was missing.

I think his critic wasn't related to "too few plotlines" but to "not enough support characters".

If for example they had included Manderly and Barbrey Dustin at the dinner at Winterfell, or made characters like Axel Florent and Ser Patrek appear for 2 or 3 scenes around Stannis, just to show the kind of supporters they have, people wouldn't have the same impression of emptiness. It wasn't requiring lots of time, just to remove some useless dialog between main cast members to make their supporters exist.

The biggest achievement this season was how they succeeded to make Karsi and the thenn, only appearing in one episode, interesting and good symbols of the kind of people wildlings leaders are, but they failed to do that for westerosi lordlings.

ps : I especially mourn the absence of Axel "man of the world" Florent, who could have been the comic relief character of the season, finally making even the sand snakes look serious.

[The King Of Cooked Steak]

The show started out good, cause D&D were trying to make a good impression then and took things seriously, but after a couple of seasons and the huge popularity they got lazy and the show went down hill. Its especially apparent after season 3. Its seems like D&D want to just get through the series as soon as possible after the red wedding and they don't care about quality and consistency anymore.

This. This so much. D&D CAN write a good adaptation of ASOIAF. They just don't care anymore. They hit it big with the Red Wedding, which was initially the reason they wanted to adapt these books at all, just to get to that one scene. After that, they stopped caring. It's just "Oh yeah, we have to continue this show yeah... Well, here's some pointlessly gratuitous and shocking moments to get cheap reactions from the audience! Ooo, look at Sansa getting raped while Theon is watching! Ooo, look at Jon getting stabbed! Ooo, look a fancy CGI dragon, isn't that cool?" No it is not.

These guys are not hacks, nor are they necessarily BAD writers. They are not the best, but they can actually be really good. The first four seasons or so of the show prove that. David Benioff is not a bad writer either. The guy wrote the 25th Hour. A book which the great Spike Lee movie was based on. Don't know much about D.B. Weiss, but he doesn't seem like a hack to me either. It's just that they lost all passion, and it looks more like a chore for them to write this stuff, rather than give a crap about it, and keep it being good and interesting, so they chose to be shocking and grotesque for the sake of being shocking and grotesque.

[protar]

I think D+D have forgotten what made this show great in the first place. It's not the shock moments, the gore and the nudity. It's the characters and how they interact. The reason the shocks work in the books and once worked in the show is because they're built upon that characterisation. You look back and it makes sense. The shocks in the show no longer make sense, they're just gratuitous.

[EobardThawne]

I loved S1-4 and liked a lot of this season but the show had big writing faults this year even without the lens of the books, and when you add in deviations which just annoyed me and made very little sense, or were anticlimatic and disrespectful to not only the characters but the incredible actors playing them- Barristan, for example, Stannis' death, the burning of Shireen- then I feel bitter while watching.

Has the show lost its flare for the casual audience? Definitely not. For me? I must say, sadly, yeah, a bit.

[Tolsimir]

If we assume that ''the heart'' is supposed to be adapted from the books, then yes. The show completely lost it's heart.

At this point the show is completely nihilistic, with deaths just piling up and the whole ''everyone can die at any time'' mentality becoming the show's official mantra or something. Just look at this season. All that was happening besides Hardhome was people dying random, unexpected and gruesome deaths. Because that's what the show is about. The shock, the twist.

Meanwhile the books are much more romantic. In the sense that yes, bad things happen in our lives, but it's the idea that lives on. Look who won between the Starks and the Lannisters and then compare what Ned left behind with what Tywin did. The Freys and the Boltons are the most hated families in the series. Meanwhile the show just ignores most consequences of the deaths. Look at Tywin's funeral. We spent like 3 minutes on it. Nobody even mentions the RW and Robb. Barristan's death was just a footnote. Have to make room for more shocking twists!

I could also complain about bad characterization, but that doesn't signify the show losing it's way. It just means bad writing.

[Keycube]

Oh god no! The best part about season 1 IMO was that you only had 2 stories to follow mostly, A good 20-30 minutes per region/character/scene - Eddard and Daenerys. After 9 episodes, you had that much more of a connection with them, so when Eddard lost his head... well, you just felt that much more betrayed.

Then they started with more plot lines, more stories, more characters, etc. etc. etc. Now each episode feels more like a teaser for the next episode. And then the season ends and leaves us feeling like something was missing.

I am with you on this. It's not so much that the show has lost its heart, it's that with the multiple plotlines going on, it's hard to invest any heart - both on the transmitting and receiving end - when you have a rather complex mini-narrative to tell in 7 minutes. All these people wanting LSH and Benjen and Jeyne Poole, etc., and any exposition that goes with them...be careful what you wish for; you think the show is a clusterf!ck now...

It's been reduced to what I call "snapshot filmography"; not so much a nice organic meandering of dialogue and silent facial expression, and the emotions that derive from them, but instead quick and brutal scenes devoid of setup, and context devoid of subtlety. It comes off as insulting to the viewer at times, but I fear there's no way around it, for the most part. It's all about time.

That being said, none of that is an excuse for what we saw in Dorne this season. :-\

[Ibbison from Ibben]

The show hasn't lost its heart, it has turned off its brain. And presumed the viewers have as well.

D&D put Sansa in Winterfell just so they could shoot one shock scene. They completely failed to construct a believable plot line where this could happen. As a result, Sansa's season 5, outside of one disgusting shock scene, was boring.

The Stannis arc was full of unbelievable elements as well. Ramsay and his 20, Stannis surviving the battle only to be found quite easily by Brienne, etc...

This has been a troubling trend since season 3 (the Gendry to Dragonstone arc). Season 4 gave us the poorly written Return to Craster's arc, while also managing to kill Jaime's redemption story.

D&D are writing scenes, but disregarding long term plot and characterization. It's a cheap cop-out style of writing.

[Theon'sSong]

the books would have been more faithfully adapted in a soap opera format

it's the only way a television medium can incorporate all the melodrama and details

[Theon'sSong]

As oppose to Sansa at the vale? Sansa at Winterfell makes so much more sense than Jeyne from a story telling perspective, whether you were too indignant at the change to realize or not is a different story

The show hasn't lost its heart, it has turned off its brain. And presumed the viewers have as well.

D&D put Sansa in Winterfell just so they could shoot one shock scene. They completely failed to construct a believable plot line where this could happen. As a result, Sansa's season 5, outside of one disgusting shock scene, was boring.

The Stannis arc was full of unbelievable elements as well. Ramsay and his 20, Stannis surviving the battle only to be found quite easily by Brienne, etc...

This has been a troubling trend since season 3 (the Gendry to Dragonstone arc). Season 4 gave us the poorly written Return to Craster's arc, while also managing to kill Jaime's redemption story.

D&D are writing scenes, but disregarding long term plot and characterization. It's a cheap cop-out style of writing.

[Lord of Nutella]

how exactly does Sansa in WF make more sense than Jeyne when

1. Jon doesnt learn about her in WF, so his motivation for messing with the Boltons is gone, this whole side of things is gone and FTW happened in a ver different manner

2. we dont even know in what spot Sansa is goig to end up in the Vale?

pre-season, i defended the Sansa in WF arc cuz i thought they would do something good with it. But what happened is that she got raped and jumped from the castle walls, which doesnt even make much sense, cuz why on earth would Roose allow Ramsay to treat Sansa ike this and piss of LF big time as soon as he learns about it, who (as far as Roose has reason to believe) is their most important ally?

[Borodin]

As oppose to Sansa at the vale? Sansa at Winterfell makes so much more sense than Jeyne from a story telling perspective...

Really? Recall that at the end of last season, Sansa was starting to take control? That was an important part of her characer arc - to go from victim under Joffery and Lysa toward an actual players. Littlefinger kept her in the Vale because he loved her and because she is the key to the North in terms of name.

Sansa in Winterfell obliterates both these characterizations. Sansa goes back to being a victim, which is a complete reversal of her arc. Terrible writing. Littlefinger places Sansa, his love and the key to the north, in mortal danger by marrying her off to a murderous psychopath: Ramsay.

The characters cease to make any sense. It's nonsense.

[xjlxking]

Total viewers has only increased every season.

pirating still affecting it even more

Ratings are still as high as ever

Critics still love it

Clealry the show is doing really bad

[Borodin]

Total viewers has only increased every season.

pirating still affecting it even more

Ratings are still as high as ever

Critics still love it

Clealry the show is doing really bad

Total viewers more or less plateaued 20 episodes or two seasons ago at 7 million.

Pirating is irrelevant. As are ratings. Transformers is one of the most pirated movies of all time. Judge Judy regularly gets 9 million viewers. All ratings prove is people can eat garbage.

Professional critics are finally catching up to unpaid critics who have been critiquing the show for some time. The latest NYT review is negative, as are an increasing number of professional critics' reviews.

The heydays are over. Clearly the show has plateaued.

[xjlxking]

Total viewers more or less plateaued 20 episodes or two seasons ago at 7 million.

Pirating is irrelevant. As are ratings. Transformers is one of the most pirated movies of all time. Judge Judy regularly gets 9 million viewers. All ratings prove is people can eat garbage.

Professional critics are finally catching up to unpaid critics who have been critiquing the show for some time. The latest NYT review is negative, as are an increasing number of professional critics' reviews.

The heydays are over. Clearly the show has plateaued.

Lol

No, game of thrones number of viewer peaked this season.

Pirating is relevant lol. It's the most pirated show, obviously it will affects the show

See transformers has a large number of people who watched it. The difference is, it's a MOVIE. You also fail to understand that critics and viewers both rated the movies bad.

[Borodin]

Lol

No, game of thrones number of viewer peaked this season.

Pirating is relevant lol. It's the most pirated show, obviously it will affects the show

See transformers has a large number of people who watched it. The difference is, it's a MOVIE. You also fail to understand that critics and viewers both rated the movies bad.

The point is that ratings, piracy, and professional critics on their own can't be used as an argument for show quality.

Single episodes peaked this season (i.e., Episodes 1 and 10), but that obscures that this season took a nose dive. Episode 7 of this season ranked lower than episode 6, lower than episode 6 of last season, and lower than episode 6 of the season before that. On average, Season 5 was no different that Season 4 in terms of ratings despite a couple episodes doing well.