Has the show lost it's heart?

[rosehustle1]

You probably see it everywhere because its true. George gave them crap to adapt, so the quality dropped. The fact that it dropped so little when the quality of the books at this point tanked is pretty impressive actually. Sure, there were missteps, but there were no Quentyn-level missteps.

What did you dislike about the books other than Quentyn? Yeah, some things may not have worked, but I would never call it crap writing.

[roxWolfox]

I don't think the books or the show ever had any 'heart'. The books had me constantly depressed after finishing ... to the point I wasn't sure I wanted to continue reading until friends began making comments about events I apparently had to read before the show aired them. I'm still not sure if I want to read the sixth (or seventh or eighth) simply because I stopped caring about who lived or died a long time ago. Now I just want to know the end of the story. The journey up to this point has been long, dank, and dreary with little to cheer about. And the freakin' cliffhangers ticked me off the most. I was hoping the show wouldn't go there, and yet it did. :crying:

I don’t think what does and does not end up on screen is the biggest problem. I can understand having only so much budget and screen time. The problem is the writers deciding that whatever doesn’t appear on screen doesn’t exist. The first season was the most focused one. It had the least characters and locations and the smallest budget but you got the impression that it was all taking place in a larger world with more going on then what we saw. Ever since then it seems like the writers are actively trying to ruin that, since.

• Willas and Garlan doesn’t exist
  
• Jamie struggle to recall any of his cousins except Lancell
  
• Cersie claiming the Tyrells are the second most wealthy family
  
• Lord Karstark somehow controlling half the armies of the North
  
• No one ever mentioning any families unless we know a person from that family
  

All those problems exists solely because of things written on paper. Instead have it say.

• Sansa is to marry older brother Tyrell (he´s in High garden)
  
• Jamie rattles of a list of names (Daven, Cerrena, Janei)
  
• Robb receives news about the Greatjon losing a battle and being taken captured (hinting that there’s war going on of screen, adding to Robbs desperation and explaining where the Greatjon went)
  
• Mention the Manderlys, the Crakehalls, the Hightowers.
  

So simple and suddenly the world seems ten times deeper and more like a real place.

The most irritating part of reading the books had to be the constant googling of characters that were mentioned in passing. Others in my book reading circle mentioned the same issue. It's hard to immerse oneself when one is on the second re-read. Maybe the 10th or 12th re-read readers have everyone memorised, but I'm not that invested in the story.

My husband refused to look up the names or families when he was reading, so he was just as lost as our non-book-reading friends during the name drops (e.g. Randyl Tarly) in the show.

I wonder how literally MILLIONS of people are upset that certain characters have been cut/plots rearranged without stopping to think, "Hey, the 5 published books are thousands of pages long and the audible versions are 30-50 hours each but damn you D&D why can't you do it all in 10 hours?!" Not to mention all the additional details/dialogues added to replace the novel's inner monologue. The show is poo poo compared to the books, as is EVERY book to show/movie translation, but it's cool to see a world you've read so much about brought to life and given actual faces.

:lol:

I enjoy seeing someone else's vision of what I imagined. Their (the showrunners) vision is much better than mine. I was truly wowwed by some scenes that I skimmed over in the books due to the incessant details.

I tried to do the Westeros.org viewers math one time. There are just over 100,000 members on this site alone. Approximately 1000-2000 bookreaders post in the HBO Westeros forums, with just over half of them highly critical of the show.

With 7 million + viewers on average per episode, even if every single member on Westeros.org who currently watches Games of Thrones stopped watching, the show would go on, as HBO is making money hand over fist due to deals with networks in other countries outside of the USA.

[lostcause]

If you're allowed to bitch, then people are allowed to bitch that you're bitching. That's the way it works. People can say whatever they want. To an extent.

There is a difference in bitching about the show and fictional characters, and then bitching about and especially at members of this forum or the actors/staff in the show.

The former is fine, the latter not so.

[roxWolfox]

There is a difference in bitching about the show and fictional characters, and then bitching about and especially at members of this forum or the actors/staff in the show.

The former is fine, the latter not so.

:agree:

[StepStark]

You probably see it everywhere because its true. George gave them crap to adapt, so the quality dropped. The fact that it dropped so little when the quality of the books at this point tanked is pretty impressive actually. Sure, there were missteps, but there were no Quentyn-level missteps.

Funny I thought it was D&D who took George's "crap" to adapt and not other way around. If its crap why did they took it then? Why didn't they write something they created? Oh right they did and its this season and it sucked badly just like any terrible fan-fiction does.

[roxWolfox]

Funny I thought it was D&D who took George's "crap" to adapt and not other way around. If its crap why did they took it then? Why didn't they write something they created? Oh right they did and its this season and it sucked badly just like any terrible fan-fiction does.

I'm curious what fan fiction means. Please explain.

[marsyao]

You do not have to be a book reader to hate season 5, it is not book, it is about basic common sense, it is about taste, I believe those stil claim loving season 5 are either working for HBO or in self denial

[RedViperHD]

You do not have to be a book reader to hate season 5, it is not book, it is about basic common sense, it is about taste, I believe those stil claim loving season 5 are either working for HBO or in self denial

Agreed. Even if you thought that Season 5 wasn't horrible then there is almost no way to "love it" unless you loved stories with no arc, characters with no depth and no development, and just love seeing women getting raped for no reason and ramsay killing more random people. I have a suggestion for those people and it's called the Internet. It has more hardcore content and shock value than Game of Thrones can ever provide and if that's too hardcore enough for you then may I suggest watching the Saw movies or American Psycho with the volume turned down. For those of us who understand that we can get hardercore shock value in numerous other places and for those of us that came to HBO and Game of Thrones and enjoyed previous seasons of Game of Thrones because the storytelling and not the shock value then I think it's more than fair to feel a little duped this season.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

I'm curious what fan fiction means. Please explain.

It's not fan fiction. Most fan fiction steam from passionate fans that have some level of respect for the books. Sansa's storyline seems to come out entirely of people that have no knowledge of writing simple sentences whatsoever, and so has done. They cut Arianne for that? I'm pretty sure my dog can write a better storyline for Dorne.

You probably see it everywhere because its true. George gave them crap to adapt, so the quality dropped. The fact that it dropped so little when the quality of the books at this point tanked is pretty impressive actually. Sure, there were missteps, but there were no Quentyn-level missteps.

I couldn't understand your issue with Quentyn? He's filler-ish, but well, what was this season? Clearly you support the original "Oh, so intelligent" changes like Olly Chekhov, Myranda 'Not Royce', among others. We can't discuss then, because as one wise man once said, everyone has a right to have a taste, but there's good and bad taste. I won't give a pass to anyone that supports the mess that Dorne/Winterfell/Stannis were this season.

[Shpati]

Sure, there were missteps, but there were no Quentyn-level missteps.

Sand Snakes had its missteps... literally too

[Shpati]

I know they have limited time. But they did a good job with seasons 1-3. 4 and 5 took a big dip in all areas. Season 4 was just as bad as 5 if it didn't have Oberyn/Pascel. Didn't D and D insist on 7 10-episode seasons? They know what they got themselves into.

All they had to do was keep following the books and stay on the right path.

And they even have to change the slightest the things for whatever reasons. Example, Instead of Jon sending Sam to Oldtown, they had Sam ask to go to Oldtown. VERY creative, D and D!

Their goal was to get to the Red Wedding, and that has been achieved. On to X Men Origins: Wolverine 2.

[Ojji]

No. The only thing the show lost was competent source material.

Yeah yeah, everyone already knows your opinion on how bad the books are. Stop repeating yourself.

It's funny how often this argument is brought up. Does poor source material excuse them for making bad television? The poorly directed scenes or the poorly written characters? Does it excuse them for Dorne and it's characters, or Dany, Brienne, Stannis, Littlefinger, Sansa or Ollie?

[Good Guy Garlan]

I definitely agree with one of several articles I've read criticizing the show (though for the life of me I can't remember which one) that said that every (or most) emotional or heartfelt moment that happens in the show now is insincere or artificial, with the sole purpose of pulling the rug from under our feet when the next bleak twist arrives.

Case(s) in point: Shireen and Myrcella. We get a heartfelt bonding, father-daughter moment, and for what? Just to lull the viewer into a sense of security so the shocking death would be even more shocking and heartbreaking.

That's not "heart", in my opinion. That's just manipulative and cynical.

[Le Cygne]

Yes, the show has lost it's heart. They left that part out of the story.

[Dolorous Gabe]

I definitely agree with one of several articles I've read criticizing the show (though for the life of me I can't remember which one) that said that every (or most) emotional or heartfelt moment that happens in the show now is insincere or artificial, with the sole purpose of pulling the rug from under our feet when the next bleak twist arrives.

Case(s) in point: Shireen and Myrcella. We get a heartfelt bonding, father-daughter moment, and for what? Just to lull the viewer into a sense of security so the shocking death would be even more shocking and heartbreaking.

That's not "heart", in my opinion. That's just manipulative and cynical.

The perfect case-in-point.

[aFeastForDragons]

You do not have to be a book reader to hate season 5, it is not book, it is about basic common sense, it is about taste, I believe those stil claim loving season 5 are either working for HBO or in self denial

All my friends who haven't read the books kept wondering what the point of Sansa being in Winterfell was, why the best military commander in Westeros was an complete moron, what the point of Dorne was, why they killed Jon after they let 5000 wildlings though, why the unsullied are the best warriors in the world but get cut apart by peasants etc etc etc

Its clear Dumb & Dumber don't care about the story anymore. They wanted to get to the Red Wedding and after that they just want to rush to the end and walk away with their bags of money. There is only 2 seasons left which are going to be much much worse now that they are completely on their own with no books to reference.

[abacabb]

I agree...

I'll still watch tho.. because in my mind through imagination its just fun to see how things compare.. or end up..

I think this show jumped the shark when they showed the Yara scene as it cuts from her being in the dog kennel to her getting in the boat and the dogs were running for them from so far away..what did Ramsay count to 30 first?

[Dolorous Gabe]

All my friends who haven't read the books kept wondering what the point of Sansa being in Winterfell was, why the best military commander in Westeros was an complete moron, what the point of Dorne was, why they killed Jon after they let 5000 wildlings though, why the unsullied are the best warriors in the world but get cut apart by peasants etc etc etc

Its clear Dumb & Dumber don't care about the story anymore. They wanted to get to the Red Wedding and after that they just want to rush to the end and walk away with their bags of money. There is only 2 seasons left which are going to be much much worse now that they are completely on their own with no books to reference.

Yeah most of my unsullied friends and family were either bored or annoyed by this season.

I also agree with the assertion that D&D just want to get to the end as soon as possible. It seems to be at the expense of decent build-up and character development too.

[Guess who's back]

All my friends who haven't read the books kept wondering

1.what the point of Sansa being in Winterfell was,

2.why the best military commander in Westeros was an complete moron,

3.what the point of Dorne was,

4. why they killed Jon after they let 5000 wildlings though,

5. why the unsullied are the best warriors in the world but get cut apart by peasants etc etc etc

1. Who knows what LF's plan was. We will find out next season

2. Stannis? Where exactly was he a moron? There was no way for him to win the fight nor turn back. As for the 20 good men, his men on watch were morons not him.

3. To get them in war. Probably siding with Dany next season

4. That didn't make the most sense. I agree. Though if they didn't let Jon in, all the weight for rebelling would be on Thorne. As a proud man I guess he didn't want to stain his honor. When Jon was killed everyone took part and it was kinda like Caesar's death... okay it didn't make sense to let Jon in :D

5. Unsullied are not the best warriors in world. They were not that many in the arena and were completely surrounded. Though, the scene was poorly executed non the less.

[Masha]

Frankly speaking till episode 6, I had really high hopes for this season, I mean I loved seasons 1-4 (other than Theon torture-porn) and had nothing but good expectation of their adaptation. But then they just completely went off-the-bend, and their own dialog (without help from GRRM) is completely corny. I would say that this season, show did loose its heart and rightfully got critized for it.

I just hope that D&D would be big enough to accept the criticism and attempt, just a little, to correct the course in the next season without descending into corny violent parody of the show. Less with shock value moments so that moments that deserve it are actually being worked for. If every episode ends with violent shock, they don't feel deserved but expected.

I also don't think that audience can tolerate another depressing season where everything goes bad and sour.