Has the show lost it's heart?

[StepStark]

Well, no. When they made the deal George had written 3 great books. Was Feast even out? If it was, I'm sure they thought it was just a one-time mistake from an otherwise great writer. I'm sure they expected the quality to go back to usual for the next books. Can you imagine how awful the day Dance was released must have been for everyone on the show? Imagine that frantic conversation, trying to figure out how to adapt that into something even vaguely watchable. Must have been terrible.

What is really terrible is watching D&D fanboys like you deluding themselves into thinking they are able to comprehend quality of the books. Your mindless apologia for the show is strong evidence that your taste for storytelling is very problematic. But what really was terrible day for ASOIAF is when two hacks were hired to adapt it for television. And also airing of every episode is some kind of terrible day for ASOIAF because it just attracts more people with terrible taste. Unfortunately this two hacks are for now only people who adapted ASOIAF so we have nothing that with which we could compare their work. We could compare it to the books but obviously you that is not task for you because you obviously didn't understand anything from the books and you are really not adequate to compare TV show you're fanboy of with books you don't understand. But hopefully someone else will do another adaptation of ASOIAF in near future and it will be fateful adaptation and then even blindmen like you won't be able to deny how shitty and stupid is the show D&D made.

[Facebookless Man]

Nobody ia ever going to adapt it again. File under missed opportunities.

[Darryk]

It is exactly what I said, this epeisode is nothing but some fancy fighting scenes, I do not know you, but I do not start watching this show because of "sequence of brilliantly executed cinematic moments", if I want to this, I will leave my brain at home and go to see that Transformer 3D

Money?

Er, no, I said brilliantly executed, not brilliantly expensive.

How a cinematic sequence is executed refers to how well it's shot, directed, acted, etc.

Hardhome was the best battle sequence the show has done for reasons that had nothing to do with the actual fighting. It was brilliant storytelling, revealing the terrifying power of a threat that has only been hinted at in the books and show up till this point and establishing a confrontation between a primary antagonist (the night's king) and the protagonist (Jon Snow).

It also managed to get the audience invested in the characters involved, like the one female wildling leader, despite having a very short space of time in which to do so.

It simply would not have had the impact it did if it was just about the effects and fighting, it's because of the storytelling. If you missed the point well, that's your loss.

[Lord Eddard]

Cersei retconned from a complex, interesting character into a cartoon "crazy!" character, the nicest! thing that can be said about the Ironborn is that they're comically unrealistic, Quentyn, plot slows down to a plod, geographical split was pointless and limiting so it could only possibly have come from either extreme arrogance or stupidity. And, of course, seemingly ever character starts repeating the same phrase over, and over, and over, and over, and over again for no apparent reason.

A bit harsh.. but well, I have to agree. The drop in quality in Feast and Dance can't be denied.

[Facebookless Man]

Er, no, I said brilliantly executed, not brilliantly expensive.

How a cinematic sequence is executed refers to how well it's shot, directed, acted, etc.

Hardhome was the best battle sequence the show has done for reasons that had nothing to do with the actual fighting. It was brilliant storytelling, revealing the terrifying power of a threat that has only been hinted at in the books and show up till this point and establishing a confrontation between a primary antagonist (the night's king) and the protagonist (Jon Snow).

It also managed to get the audience invested in the characters involved, like the one female wildling leader, despite having a very short space of time in which to do so.

It simply would not have had the impact it did if it was just about the effects and fighting, it's because of the storytelling. If you missed the point well, that's your loss.

You're seriously trying to be condescending because you "got" what was basically a succession of every trite "Action Epic" movie cliche ever?

Okay I guess.

[Darryk]

You're seriously trying to be condescending because you "got" what was basically a succession of every trite "Action Epic" movie cliche ever?

Okay I guess.

Cliches are hard to avoid, perhaps even necessary in any story that draws on elements of the hero myth and the hero's journey. But cliches are fine provided they're well executed.

Hardhome was great precisely because it was classic heroic fantasy tropes executed to perfection, and hence why the audience responded so well to it. It helps that the action was filmed in a way that created a genuine sense of chaos and terror, and that the acting and writing succeeded in getting the audience invested in the characters involved. But most importantly it achieved its aim in terms of storytelling, which was to give the audience a sense of the threat that the seven kingdoms is willfully ignoring due to being embroiled in their petty squabbles, while also vindicating the motivations of the protagonist in risking the ire of his own people to save their sworn enemy from a greater evil that threatens all of them.

[Borodin]

A bit harsh.. but well, I have to agree. The drop in quality in Feast and Dance can't be denied.

I deny it.

Thesis refuted.

[StepStark]

Nobody ia ever going to adapt it again. File under missed opportunities.

There is no way to be sure about that. I expect in ten years or something like that, if book series is hopefully finished by that time, someone who really loves and understands ASOIAF will adapt it for some company that won't insist on ridiculous things like boobs quota. There is money in that and there is prestige in that. And anyway, great works of literature are often adapted multiple times so why ASOIAF wouldn't go same road.

[Ojji]

And everyone knows your opinion about how bad the show is. Why, exactly, should I stop repeating my opinion while you continuously spout out your own?

But I don't think it's a bad show. I think season 5 was bad television.

I like the show, but I think it's a bad adaption.

[shadow282]

You've never read the books, so stop telling us how awful they are. You don't know what you're talking about.

Not sure if you're talking to me, but if you are that's a pretty stupid assumption right there. Since I clearly listed my problems with the recent two books.

What is really terrible is watching D&D fanboys like you deluding themselves into thinking they are able to comprehend quality of the books. Your mindless apologia for the show is strong evidence that your taste for storytelling is very problematic. But what really was terrible day for ASOIAF is when two hacks were hired to adapt it for television. And also airing of every episode is some kind of terrible day for ASOIAF because it just attracts more people with terrible taste. Unfortunately this two hacks are for now only people who adapted ASOIAF so we have nothing that with which we could compare their work. We could compare it to the books but obviously you that is not task for you because you obviously didn't understand anything from the books and you are really not adequate to compare TV show you're fanboy of with books you don't understand. But hopefully someone else will do another adaptation of ASOIAF in near future and it will be fateful adaptation and then even blindmen like you won't be able to deny how shitty and stupid is the show D&D made.

Yeah, not a D&D fanboy. I can honestly say I both know almost nothing about and care absolutely nothing for either one of them. Hell, I don't even know what either D stands for or which goes with which. Really just a weird assumption to make there. Helpful hint, next time just blindly accuse someone of being a show fanboy if you're going to do it. It'll make your argument seem less immediately pathetic(still incredibly pathetic, mind you, but baby steps, you know?)

But you're ssssooooooo right, you can tell I'm such a mindless apologist from my stirring praise of "it was watchable" and "it didn't drop in quality as much as it could have".

Although it's kinda adorable when people like you accuse others of being mindless fanboys. And in the very same paragraph try to "defend" against criticism against their precious books with "you just don't get it" and "you're just blind". Which are really, really just compelling arguments there. Not at all creepily deluded fanboyish. So tell me, is that willful ignorance, stunningly huge hypocrisy or just plain old stupidity? Maybe of combination? I'm genuinely curious here (personally I'm leaning towards it being either willful ignorance or stupidity based off you thinking anyone is going to adapt this again anytime soon. You'd especially have to be either seriously deluded or seriously stupid to think that it'll happen within a decade).

I deny it.

Thesis refuted.

"can't be denied by any reasonable person" is I'm sure what that statement meant. Usually that would go without saying(which is, I'm sure, why it wasn't added) but apparently special considerations have to be made.

[shadow282]

But I don't think it's a bad show. I think season 5 was bad television.

I like the show, but I think it's a bad adaption.

Whatever. My point remains the same. Why should I stop expressing my opinion when nobody else has to stop? Why address that to me and not, say, Borodin, who has posted more than 1,100 times bashing the show. Surely we all know his opinion by now, right? I must have missed where you told him to stop repeating himself.

[Gustavo Fringed Sleeves]

The show hasn't lost its heart. The show has gone downhill, more poignantly put.

[Le Cygne]

It will be adapted again, it the last two books are good. We might all be dead by the time they get to doing adaptation number 2, but there will be another time.

[StepStark]

Not sure if you're talking to me, but if you are that's a pretty stupid assumption right there. Since I clearly listed my problems with the recent two books.

Yeah, not a D&D fanboy. I can honestly say I both know almost nothing about and care absolutely nothing for either one of them. Hell, I don't even know what either D stands for or which goes with which. Really just a weird assumption to make there. Helpful hint, next time just blindly accuse someone of being a show fanboy if you're going to do it. It'll make your argument seem less immediately pathetic(still incredibly pathetic, mind you, but baby steps, you know?)

But you're ssssooooooo right, you can tell I'm such a mindless apologist from my stirring praise of "it was watchable" and "it didn't drop in quality as much as it could have".

Although it's kinda adorable when people like you accuse others of being mindless fanboys. And in the very same paragraph try to "defend" against criticism against their precious books with "you just don't get it" and "you're just blind". Which are really, really just compelling arguments there. Not at all creepily deluded fanboyish. So tell me, is that willful ignorance, stunningly huge hypocrisy or just plain old stupidity? Maybe of combination? I'm genuinely curious here (personally I'm leaning towards it being either willful ignorance or stupidity based off you thinking anyone is going to adapt this again anytime soon. You'd especially have to be either seriously deluded or seriously stupid to think that it'll happen within a decade).

"can't be denied by any reasonable person" is I'm sure what that statement meant. Usually that would go without saying(which is, I'm sure, why it wasn't added) but apparently special considerations have to be made.

Big difference between you and other posters is that you are incapable of having discussion with people you disagree with. Borodin is quite capable of that because he almost always discuss things with people that disagree with him. I am also capable of that. But you are not. You are obviously capable only for insulting posters you disagree with. Just like in this case you're insulting me personally which just shows how distasteful you really are. Just compare my approach and your approach and you will see difference. I said that your apologia is mindless and that your taste is problematic. You answered by saying that Im stupid. Almost every your post is neurotic and insulting and that is why you're ruining every discussion you jump in. You have nothing to contribute but insults and childish apologia of the show. and just so you know I don't have any reason to discuss the books with you because you don't deserve it. You are rude and you don't know how to discuss things in civil manner and you obviously have very poor understanding of the books and also of other people's posts. That is why I refuse to discuss the books with someone like you and not because I avoid that subject. For your information, I discussed books with many posters here and some of them strongly disagreed with me and they had many complaints about the books, but you are just not able to have meaningful conversation of that kind.

[StepStark]

It will be adapted again, it the last two books are good. We might all be dead by the time they get to doing adaptation number 2, but there will be another time.

I dont think we will have to wait so long. Martin had many offers before D&D and its to expect he will have more. And its not a matter of money because it is very obvious now that any adaptation of his books can make money. When you know you can earn hundreds of millions of dollars, its not so hard to invest a hundred million dollars per year. Adapting ASOIAF is great business opportunity and Hollywood is running out of ideas anyway so they're desperate for stories like ASOIAF. And if competition wants to humiliate HBO all they have to do is make fateful adaptation of ASOIAF, and HBO and D&D will be ridiculed for their incompetence until the end of days. But of course Martin has to finish the books and make last two books great because nobody will even think about adaptation before he finishes ASOIAF. When that happens, I think that few years later some big TV house is going to approach him with offer.

[Daske]

I dont think we will have to wait so long. Martin had many offers before D&D and its to expect he will have more. And its not a matter of money because it is very obvious now that any adaptation of his books can make money. When you know you can earn hundreds of millions of dollars, its not so hard to invest a hundred million dollars per year. Adapting ASOIAF is great business opportunity and Hollywood is running out of ideas anyway so they're desperate for stories like ASOIAF. And if competition wants to humiliate HBO all they have to do is make fateful adaptation of ASOIAF, and HBO and D&D will be ridiculed for their incompetence until the end of days. But of course Martin has to finish the books and make last two books great because nobody will even think about adaptation before he finishes ASOIAF. When that happens, I think that few years later some big TV house is going to approach him with offer.

Not gonna happen. It doesn't work like that. My prediction would be 40-50 years before a remake, if ever.

The competition all wish they were as 'incompentent' as the showrunners. They would all love to be making/airing this show as it is right now. Nothing to be gained by ploughing in a ton of money into something very few people would watch.

You won't get more people watching a remake if it more faithful to the books. Conversely, you would lose everyone who doesn't want to plow though the whole story again (which would be most people), and those who got caught-up in the shocking Ned/RedWedding/dragons moments watching it with friends, discussing on Twitter etc. GoT caught the Zetgeist, it won't happenlike that again, so won't attract the far wider crowd outside the fantasty-fan genre. There is no way it will be remade soon.

Oh, and you would of course get some people constantly complaining that it's not as good as the original - now where have we heard that before?

[aFeastForDragons]

Its about as likely as getting the LOTR trilogy remade. Its not going to happen in our lifetime.

As dumb as the show has become its still one of the most popular shows on television and its only going to get bigger coming up to the last two seasons.

I'm just praying Dumb & Dumber don't get their hands on Robert's Rebellion. "Lets make Robert a villain and kill of Ser Barristan on the trident".

[Shpati]

It isn't just the source material. I thought the source material was fine, but even if we look past that and say the source material was the reason for the bad writing... But what about the other aspects of the show? The acting, settings, and costumes have gotten worse too imo.

[Lord Eddard]

I dont think we will have to wait so long. Martin had many offers before D&D and its to expect he will have more. And its not a matter of money because it is very obvious now that any adaptation of his books can make money. When you know you can earn hundreds of millions of dollars, its not so hard to invest a hundred million dollars per year. Adapting ASOIAF is great business opportunity and Hollywood is running out of ideas anyway so they're desperate for stories like ASOIAF. And if competition wants to humiliate HBO all they have to do is make fateful adaptation of ASOIAF, and HBO and D&D will be ridiculed for their incompetence until the end of days. But of course Martin has to finish the books and make last two books great because nobody will even think about adaptation before he finishes ASOIAF. When that happens, I think that few years later some big TV house is going to approach him with offer.

OMG you're really serious? :stunned:

Reality check, the show is hugely successful and praised to high heaven literally everywhere except by a vocal minority here. And even here more people vote each episode a 10 than a 1. So.... yeah... bury your delusions.

[Dolorous Gabe]

Cersei retconned from a complex, interesting character into a cartoon "crazy!" character, the nicest! thing that can be said about the Ironborn is that they're comically unrealistic, Quentyn, plot slows down to a plod, geographical split was pointless and limiting so it could only possibly have come from either extreme arrogance or stupidity. And, of course, seemingly ever character starts repeating the same phrase over, and over, and over, and over, and over again for no apparent reason.

I completely disagree with your opinions on Cersei.

I don't mind you saying that you prefer the 'Carol' version of Cersei in the show. That's absolutely fine. She's an interesting character and Lena plays her very well.

But don't try and claim Cersei in the books should have been the same as Carol. She is a supremely nasty person in the books and wasn't ret-conned to start losing her mind. It was always there, just in the background, up until Joffrey died. Then when Tywin died it turns up a notch again. It was always there. It just needed the switches to be flipped. So no, book-Cersei is not the "cartoon crazy" character you claim she is. She is just different from the show version.

To reply to the Quentyn comment, I personally feel that after having revealed through the Dornish story that Quentyn is on his mission to find Dany, we didn't need to see him get there. He could have just turned up in Dany's story not as a POV.

On the repetitions, I firmly believe there is a point to those and some may become clearer later on. This is an interesting piece on the subject. I particularly like the 2nd page, which explains the point of Tyrion's obsession with questioning where whores go.

The bolded is a terrible comment and you should retract it immediately. In fact it is highly arrogant of you to make that judgement without backing it up.