Has the show lost it's heart?

[Joe Pesci]

LOL these arguments remind me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CLCOvZOh1o

Link doesn't work but please copy and paste it's brilliant, and I admit I'm exactly like this.

Oh link does work, even better

Man that's rich...I SAID I READ THE FUCKING BOOKS TWICE!

[Dragon in the North]

I agree with you but I think it's rather a case of Martin feeling betrayed rather than being betrayed (as far as we know). We don't know (yet) what kind of agreement they had first.

I also find funny how many bring the argument of "who cares? He was paid!". I suppose those people are lucky enough to have never seen your work being misused. It doesn't matter how much you are paid, it does hurt (to some at least).

Look for example, the case of bookJP vs movieJP. While it does have big differences, it keeps one main thing: the theme. While book fans and movie fans now have a different opinion of John Hammond (because the portrayals are very much the opposite of each other), I think they all agree on what the books and franchise are about, which is the main concern of the author: "would you do it just because you can or not?".

The themes in GoT are nothing like the themes in ASOIAF (and I'm being generous because GoT has no themes at all). I think mostly authors are ok. with changes in their books as long as the message remains. What's the message that remains in GoT from ASOIAF? "Anyone can die"?. I doubt that's the intention of GRRM and it's a valid reason for him to be mad.

GRRM is not the only one. Many authors have feel like this over the years, but I suppose some of them can't really talk about it for professionals reasons. Some others have been lucky enough to being able to talk about it and point out that the adaptations made of their books have been hideous. I mean, google "authors that hated movie adaptations" and we have a long list. I mean, they are the parents of the stories, why should we treat their feelings like they don't matter? :dunno:

For curiosity's sake, what are some themes in ASOIAF that you believe GOT has neglected?

[TheLeviathan73]

Im only guessing of course, but if TWOW and ADOS are as good as expected, it will be best possible invitations for other studios and companies to approach George.

Seriously, you may be certifiably insane if you really think this whole rant of yours is plausible.

[Winter's Cold]

Perhaps if books 4 and 5 were up to quality of the previous books, there would have been less deviations. Can you imagine HBO having a season without Jon, Tyrion and Daenerys? Book readers had to wait eleven years for the next book that had those characters. I don't know why GRRM thought that was acceptable. I guess due to his success, GRRM no longer feels that he needs to please his audience. Alas HBO has a vested interest in keeping ratings high and don't feel the need to drag this series out.

[Red Typer of Dorne]

Perhaps if books 4 and 5 were up to quality of the previous books, there would have been less deviations. Can you imagine HBO having a season without Jon, Tyrion and Daenerys? Book readers had to wait eleven years for the next book that had those characters. I don't know why GRRM thought that was acceptable. I guess due to his success, GRRM no longer feels that he needs to please his audience. Alas HBO has a vested interest in keeping ratings high and don't feel the need to drag this series out.

The thing is AFFC and ADWD run parallel, they are not one after the other so they could have done the first half of feast and dance one season the second half the next season. This would leave all of peoples favorite characters in.

[Good Guy Garlan]

The thing is AFFC and ADWD run parallel, they are not one after the other so they could have done the first half of feast and dance one season the second half the next season. This would leave all of peoples favorite characters in.

Yeah, those books have a LOT of problems that would've affected the adaptation, but that's not one of them.

[Joe Pesci]

I also find funny how many bring the argument of "who cares? He was paid!". I suppose those people are lucky enough to have never seen your work being misused. It doesn't matter how much you are paid, it does hurt (to some at least).

I hate to go off topic for a minute, but lets looks at this realistically. If we say the show has covered all 5 published books so far, I'd think most people could agree that the first 3 books were adapted fairly true and done well on screen. So for arguments sake lets say that the last 2 books weren't adapted well (not getting into any reasons for or against). This means that only 2 of GRRM's works that were picked up for adaption were not done well.

I wonder if Stephen King would take a 60% positive outlook on all of his works that were put on screen. There have been a lot of great adaptations of his work, but there are a TON of duds (I'm looking at you Dreamcatcher). For all I know King could give two shits about it, but it offers a bit of perspective for those of us who feel that GRRM is all twisted up over the show straying away from source material so much in 1 season out of 5.

Back on topic, I think more than anything the show has really lost its direction, and I think it may be possible for it to be found again. I'm willing to give them a chance to turn things around because no show is perfect every season imo. If they fail and it blows, well I can always stop watching and start reading again :thumbsup:

[shadow282]

Because Im not so good in English I "adapted" and "streamlined" your post but essentially yes you are right, you didn't exactly call me stupid. You gave me choice between hypocrite, ignorant and stupid. I just didn't want to repeat all three because you're not so good to be faithfully adapted. So I leave it to you to pick your insult. I don't care really because I wouldn't expect anything decent from you seeing how rude you are to everyone. And people like you can't really insult me. When you're as rude as you are all this time you are just revealing your true colors, nothing else. And to tell you honestly I am glad that rude people like you aren't book fans but show fans. It just proves how ridiculously stupid the show is.

I responded to your post because you were talking pure nonsense because you obviously can't recognize original creativity from non-original creativity. But of course you then responded back with even more nonsense and rudeness. So consider my mission failed.

And by the way neurotic among other things means unable to control yourself. Reading your posts... well... let's leave it at that.

But just to make me clear: Im really not interested in civil conversation with you or any conversation with you and I never was. I know that you are not capable of having conversation so I can't be interested in having one with you. That would be delusional. And you are actually proving that I was right.

Way to, again, ignore the fact that you started the insults. And the fact that I haven't insulted others here, even though there's plenty of people here who disagree with me. You, on the other hand, have insulted several people here who are disagreeing with you. So based off that we're, unfortunately, back to the big three choices in yet another area.

And you're somehow completely wrong in yet another area, because I love books more than the show. Only the good ones, though. The last two are such a pile of steaming mediocrity that it's not terribly difficult to be better than them.

Yeah, uh, that's not what neurotic means. Most people would have at least bothered to look it up to make sure, but good on you for sticking to your ignorance(I guess?).

So, you didn't want to have a discussion/conversation with me. And to avoid that, you started a conversation/discussion with me? Makes perfect sense...

"I'm not really interested in civil conversation with you"

Yeah, that's been pretty clear from the beginning. Or apparently, civil conversation with anyone ​who doesn't agree with you.

Does it means that Lost is good? It doesn't and it isn't. Lost is mediocre fun at best. For your information, GRRM didn't direct any episode. He was writing episode per season until this year. and, funny, he stopped posting anything about the show on his site. And he won't be writing for the show any more. And his publisher openly expressed dissatisfaction with the show. And as many posters said during this season, he definitely didn't sign for this. He is betrayed by D&D and HBO. He is hardly first one ever because TV companies and movie companies do that all the time but yes he was betrayed and he acts accordingly while avoiding to escalate things. He distanced himself from the show and many of his associates distanced themselves from the show and many book fans are about to stop watching the show. And honestly GRRM was like the most supportive source author ever and the most tolerant one. When they managed to make him distance from them, I can only imagine how furious some less tolerant author would be.

You mean George(the man who had to "wrestle" with the question of changing the ending because a few people had guessed it online) is (possibly) annoyed with the show that is going to make sure that his ending is widely known years before he can even write it? Absolutely shocking! And his publisher (the person who is going to lose book sales and money because there are some people who won't buy it because they already know the ending) is annoyed with the show? Who could have seen that coming?

Both of their opinions are way too biased by other factors to have any actual worth.

[EatCrow]

Funny I thought it was D&D who took George's "crap" to adapt and not other way around. If its crap why did they took it then? Why didn't they write something they created? Oh right they did and its this season and it sucked badly just like any terrible fan-fiction does.

Agree. I see alot of people argue that books 4 and 5 were awful and that's why the writing on the show has suffered. But D&D as fan of the series should the characters intimately and write true to the characters wich I don't think they do. I know they don't. The scene where Arya hides needle in the rocks D says that needle is a symbol for her revenge. NO needle is her home and family. They have forgotten who their characters are and that's why fans are pissed.

[Damp Hair - The Prophet]

The GoT HBO TV show is not the last of ASOI&F. If you think so, you're a bit dense. The brand has become too popular and the untold tales too many for some enterprising party to not produce another visit to this world. A Movie of somekind, TV or otherwise is totally plausible. I think their are old stories that are screaming to be made in a cinematic format from someone NOT D&D.

Tales of Dunk & Egg

Roberts Rebellion /Greyjoy Rebellion

Dance of Dragons

Aegon's Conquest

There's too much interest & too much money to be made for these to sit on the shelf forever.

[Damp Hair - The Prophet]

-dbl-

& yes, D&D have forgotten who the characters are & more especially that GOOD CHARACTERIZATION s the heart & strongest quality of GRRM's ASOI&F.

The traded isolated plot points for cheap shocks (& their weird rape fixation +bewbs) for character work & quality writing and season 5 suffered for it.

I don't believe they are forging their own path out of respect for letting GRRM have his ending so much as for their own hubris. They are in fact ,however, inferior. They complain of screentime shortages but stuff their own seasons w/ fanfic filler and incorporate none of GRRM great dialog any longer. Also, they don't consider valid criticism. That insularity, as w/ the StarWars prequels / GOP, makes for a severe drop in quality.

[xjlxking]

The GoT HBO TV show is not the last of ASOI&F. If you think so, you're a bit dense. The brand has become too popular and the untold tales too many for some enterprising party to not produce another visit to this world. A Movie of somekind, TV or otherwise is totally plausible. I think their are old stories that are screaming to be made in a cinematic format from someone NOT D&D.

Tales of Dunk & Egg

Roberts Rebellion /Greyjoy Rebellion

Dance of Dragons

Aegon's Conquest

There's too much interest & too much money to be made for these to sit on the shelf forever.

The possibility is there. Don't hold you breathe for another Game of Thrones anytime soon. That was the point. An extension or a spin off was not part of the statement.

[StepStark]

I felt like I needed to split your post

Haha so we are moving onto this, huh? Successful is not good. Succesful in what terms? We already went through this it's just that you don't seem to understand it. You already said Transformers is sucessful and the you said it sucked. I told you, yes, it made plenty of money, plenty of people watched it. The difference is, the rating from both viewers and critics kept going down. GoT on the other hand is sucesfful in almost every way possible. It's watched a lot, it's the most watched show in HBO's history. It's the most pirated TV Show. It has good reviews by both critics and viewers. The numbers in terms of pirating, amount of viewers has only increased. I would say that that if you can't say that the show is good, you are likely being in denial. This is the same way to determine if those shows you names like MM, Wire, BB, Sopranos are both successful and good. If you think GoT isn't good, that's great, that is your opinion, but the general audience thinks it's great. This is undeniable. Also, can you name these shows and movies? Clearly, you can't hence, you made sure to dodge it by not even stating what.

GOT is stupid. ACCORDING TO WHO? You? The book readers? Can you please explain.

What you are saying now is adjusted am assuming. Now you do agree that GOT is an adaption to the novel? Can I also assume that you are looking for that link where GRRM disapproves of the show and how he is distancing himself from the show because it's bad, and that D&D betrayed him.

Are you trying to miss the point or is it just something that comes natural to you? What are you laughing for? Are you trying to say that popularity is equal to quality? Are you trying to say that if general audience loves something than it has to be good?

Of course that audience is loving the show. Why wold they watch it if not? In essence you are just saying that people who watch the show love it. Bravo for figuring that out. But that has nothing to do with discussion about quality. What you keep repeating is that because general audience love the show then it has to be good. Oh yes and critics love it. But critics loved Lost more. It was so loved it received Emmy for the best series and Golden Globe for the best series. So by your standards Lost is better than GOT am I right? Also "24" received awards that GOT still haven't. Does it also means 24 is better than GOT? And so on. Yes Im saying that popularity and critics praise doesn't have to mean anything. And history of TV shows and movies proves my point. Many shows and movies that were stupid were loved by general audience and critics. Many shows and movies that were brilliant weren't loved by audience and were underrated by critics. Only with time, after some amount of years or decades passed, those shows and those movies were judged according to their actual quality. For comparison, if somebody says that ASOIAF is stupid Im not going to reply: no, it isn't stupid, it is loved by millions of readers and even by some critics (which is much harder in literature than in TV) and it won some awards. That would be poor argument from me. Instead I would address his complaints.

Now, why is the show stupid? Well it is stupid because it has stupid plots and ridiculous dialogue and so on. Most of all, because every single episode is full of ludicrous plot holes. For example, this is something nobody answered me yet: in episode 2, when Daario and Grey Worm arrest that guy who was hiding inside wall, why the hell was that man hiding even? After arrest, Barristan and Daario confirm that they don't know what crime did that man commit and that is why they want to put him on trial. But let me ask you: on what charges? What would be charges against that man? You can say that he was hiding inside walls with masks and weapon and in city that is under revolution it can be considered crime. Alright, tell me then, why was he hiding inside walls? He was arrested just because he was hiding. But in fact he absolutely didn't have any reason to hide. In fact he was hiding just because plot needed him to and because Daario and Grey Worm had to arrest him. And then other guy kills him and Dany executes other guy. And crowd turns against Dany. But what was that about? That was never addressed again. So why was that entire subplot needed even? Why was it needed to see slaves hissing on Dany? What was the point of it?

So that entire subplot was A) ridiculous and B) unnecessary. D&D had no reason to include it in the show, and the way in which they included it was unbelievably stupid. Is that "good television"? LOL. And also we can agree that general audience loved that episode and critics also loved that episode. But Im asking you was it ridiculous or was it logical and intelligent? and please tell me is that faithful adaptation of ASOIAF? What part of ASOIAF corresponds to that stupidity? That entire subplot shouldn't belong in any show for adults, let alone in the show that tries to sell itself as serious drama. And especially in adaptation of ASOIAF where in five books and 5.000 pages there is not even one scene that is as stupid as this one.

And that is just one example, just something that I think wasn't analyzed enough. But in Rant and rave threads you can find great many other examples of stupidity in the show. Between Sansa and Stannis and Dorne there was really not one episode that was without absurdly stupid scenes and subplots. And that is why the show is really stupid even if its the most popular and most praised show ever (which it isn't by the way).

[kissdbyfire]

Are you trying to miss the point or is it just something that comes natural to you? What are you laughing for? Are you trying to say that popularity is equal to quality? Are you trying to say that if general audience loves something than it has to be good?

Of course that audience is loving the show. Why wold they watch it if not? In essence you are just saying that people who watch the show love it. Bravo for figuring that out. But that has nothing to do with discussion about quality. What you keep repeating is that because general audience love the show then it has to be good. Oh yes and critics love it. But critics loved Lost more. It was so loved it received Emmy for the best series and Golden Globe for the best series. So by your standards Lost is better than GOT am I right? Also "24" received awards that GOT still haven't. Does it also means 24 is better than GOT? And so on. Yes Im saying that popularity and critics praise doesn't have to mean anything. And history of TV shows and movies proves my point. Many shows and movies that were stupid were loved by general audience and critics. Many shows and movies that were brilliant weren't loved by audience and were underrated by critics. Only with time, after some amount of years or decades passed, those shows and those movies were judged according to their actual quality. For comparison, if somebody says that ASOIAF is stupid Im not going to reply: no, it isn't stupid, it is loved by millions of readers and even by some critics (which is much harder in literature than in TV) and it won some awards. That would be poor argument from me. Instead I would address his complaints.

Now, why is the show stupid? Well it is stupid because it has stupid plots and ridiculous dialogue and so on. Most of all, because every single episode is full of ludicrous plot holes. For example, this is something nobody answered me yet: in episode 2, when Daario and Grey Worm arrest that guy who was hiding inside wall, why the hell was that man hiding even? After arrest, Barristan and Daario confirm that they don't know what crime did that man commit and that is why they want to put him on trial. But let me ask you: on what charges? What would be charges against that man? You can say that he was hiding inside walls with masks and weapon and in city that is under revolution it can be considered crime. Alright, tell me then, why was he hiding inside walls? He was arrested just because he was hiding. But in fact he absolutely didn't have any reason to hide. In fact he was hiding just because plot needed him to and because Daario and Grey Worm had to arrest him. And then other guy kills him and Dany executes other guy. And crowd turns against Dany. But what was that about? That was never addressed again. So why was that entire subplot needed even? Why was it needed to see slaves hissing on Dany? What was the point of it?

So that entire subplot was A) ridiculous and B) unnecessary. D&D had no reason to include it in the show, and the way in which they included it was unbelievably stupid. Is that "good television"? LOL. And also we can agree that general audience loved that episode and critics also loved that episode. But Im asking you was it ridiculous or was it logical and intelligent? and please tell me is that faithful adaptation of ASOIAF? What part of ASOIAF corresponds to that stupidity? That entire subplot shouldn't belong in any show for adults, let alone in the show that tries to sell itself as serious drama. And especially in adaptation of ASOIAF where in five books and 5.000 pages there is not even one scene that is as stupid as this one.

And that is just one example, just something that I think wasn't analyzed enough. But in Rant and rave threads you can find great many other examples of stupidity in the show. Between Sansa and Stannis and Dorne there was really not one episode that was without absurdly stupid scenes and subplots. And that is why the show is really stupid even if its the most popular and most praised show ever (which it isn't by the way).

Well said.

And that guy that Daario and GW capture... It was incredibly stupid, the whole thing. I'm still trying to figure out how the hell did he manage to wall himself in like that? LOL

Series 5 has massive plot holes. Plot holes the size of Jupiter.

[StepStark]

Way to, again, ignore the fact that you started the insults. And the fact that I haven't insulted others here, even though there's plenty of people here who disagree with me. You, on the other hand, have insulted several people here who are disagreeing with you. So based off that we're, unfortunately, back to the big three choices in yet another area.

And you're somehow completely wrong in yet another area, because I love books more than the show. Only the good ones, though. The last two are such a pile of steaming mediocrity that it's not terribly difficult to be better than them.

Yeah, uh, that's not what neurotic means. Most people would have at least bothered to look it up to make sure, but good on you for sticking to your ignorance(I guess?).

So, you didn't want to have a discussion/conversation with me. And to avoid that, you started a conversation/discussion with me? Makes perfect sense...

"I'm not really interested in civil conversation with you"

Yeah, that's been pretty clear from the beginning. Or apparently, civil conversation with anyone ​who doesn't agree with you.

You mean George(the man who had to "wrestle" with the question of changing the ending because a few people had guessed it online) is (possibly) annoyed with the show that is going to make sure that his ending is widely known years before he can even write it? Absolutely shocking! And his publisher (the person who is going to lose book sales and money because there are some people who won't buy it because they already know the ending) is annoyed with the show? Who could have seen that coming?

Both of their opinions are way too biased by other factors to have any actual worth.

Since you are stubborn beyond belief this is what symptoms of neurosis may involve according to Wikipedia (they quote American professor):

... anxiety, sadness or depression, anger, irritability, mental confusion, low sense of self-worth, etc., behavioral symptoms such as phobic avoidance, vigilance, impulsive and compulsive acts, lethargy, etc., cognitive problems such as unpleasant or disturbing thoughts, repetition of thoughts and obsession, habitual fantasizing, negativity and cynicism, etc. Interpersonally, neurosis involves dependency, aggressiveness, perfectionism, schizoid isolation, socio-culturally inappropriate behaviors, etc.

At least six symptoms are easily recognizable in your posts. So yes you pretty much fit definition. And it does mean that what I wrote was accurate because anger outbursts and irritability do indicate serious lack of self control.

LOL at you "loving" the books more than the show. But you think that season 5 is better than AFFC/ADWD? Really, you don't think Dorne is biggest pile of crap seen on television for years? You don't think Sansa volunteering to marry Ramsay is stupid beyond belief? You don't think Tyrion beating his captor in that auction is moronic? As I said already that stuff doesn't belong to material for adults.

Oh it really is surprising George is biased toward his own story. How shocking! He must be sick to have emotions for his story. You must be right, loving your own story is so pathetic. LOL. Listen, thanks for proving why I was right not to expect any reasonable arguments from you. As I said I just wanted to answer the nonsense you posted about George being guilty for D&D's crap but you obviously aren't used to think about nonsense you post so it was all futile. Believe me I won't disturb you any more.

[xjlxking]

Are you trying to miss the point or is it just something that comes natural to you? What are you laughing for? Are you trying to say that popularity is equal to quality? Are you trying to say that if general audience loves something than it has to be good?

Of course that audience is loving the show. Why wold they watch it if not? In essence you are just saying that people who watch the show love it. Bravo for figuring that out. But that has nothing to do with discussion about quality. What you keep repeating is that because general audience love the show then it has to be good. Oh yes and critics love it. But critics loved Lost more. It was so loved it received Emmy for the best series and Golden Globe for the best series. So by your standards Lost is better than GOT am I right? Also "24" received awards that GOT still haven't. Does it also means 24 is better than GOT? And so on. Yes Im saying that popularity and critics praise doesn't have to mean anything. And history of TV shows and movies proves my point. Many shows and movies that were stupid were loved by general audience and critics. Many shows and movies that were brilliant weren't loved by audience and were underrated by critics. Only with time, after some amount of years or decades passed, those shows and those movies were judged according to their actual quality. For comparison, if somebody says that ASOIAF is stupid Im not going to reply: no, it isn't stupid, it is loved by millions of readers and even by some critics (which is much harder in literature than in TV) and it won some awards. That would be poor argument from me. Instead I would address his complaints.

And that is just one example, just something that I think wasn't analyzed enough. But in Rant and rave threads you can find great many other examples of stupidity in the show. Between Sansa and Stannis and Dorne there was really not one episode that was without absurdly stupid scenes and subplots. And that is why the show is really stupid even if its the most popular and most praised show ever (which it isn't by the way).

Once more, popularity has nothing to do with ratings. It's has good ratings by both critics and viewers.

Your entire argument is just trying to nitpick whatever you think can be used to help your argument. This has nothing to do with the audience. The audience doesn't have to like it to watch it, YOU are a testament to that. Do you not watch it? 24 won an award, great! What did I just tell you. Taking one variable doesn't make it good. Critics and viewer reviews aren't as high, it doesn't have the same viewership..etc. So history doesn't prove nothing for you, if anything it proves that you are wrong. It's like you completely ignored my post and started talking about another show because you think it proves your point. You also keep saying, many shows but keep failing to mention them. What is many? 2? 3? WHAT?

Now, why is the show stupid? Well it is stupid because it has stupid plots and ridiculous dialogue and so on. Most of all, because every single episode is full of ludicrous plot holes. For example, this is something nobody answered me yet: in episode 2, when Daario and Grey Worm arrest that guy who was hiding inside wall, why the hell was that man hiding even? After arrest, Barristan and Daario confirm that they don't know what crime did that man commit and that is why they want to put him on trial. But let me ask you: on what charges? What would be charges against that man? You can say that he was hiding inside walls with masks and weapon and in city that is under revolution it can be considered crime. Alright, tell me then, why was he hiding inside walls? He was arrested just because he was hiding. But in fact he absolutely didn't have any reason to hide. In fact he was hiding just because plot needed him to and because Daario and Grey Worm had to arrest him. And then other guy kills him and Dany executes other guy. And crowd turns against Dany. But what was that about? That was never addressed again. So why was that entire subplot needed even? Why was it needed to see slaves hissing on Dany? What was the point of it?

So that entire subplot was A) ridiculous and B) unnecessary. D&D had no reason to include it in the show, and the way in which they included it was unbelievably stupid. Is that "good television"? LOL. And also we can agree that general audience loved that episode and critics also loved that episode. But Im asking you was it ridiculous or was it logical and intelligent? and please tell me is that faithful adaptation of ASOIAF? What part of ASOIAF corresponds to that stupidity? That entire subplot shouldn't belong in any show for adults, let alone in the show that tries to sell itself as serious drama. And especially in adaptation of ASOIAF where in five books and 5.000 pages there is not even one scene that is as stupid as this one.

THIS is mostly opinion. And for that reason, I'm not going to address it. In the same way, I can start complaining that the book is illogical. Like you would think that, oh I don't know, Stannis would by now make, oh I DON"T KNOW 50 kids to use as kings blood. Nitpicking is nit picking. Associating logical reasoning in a show is stupid in itself. Those great shows that you even mentioned yourself have the same problem, that is a universal problem with TV Series.

And again, your opinion of whether or not this show is an adaption or not is irrelevant. GRRM says it is, sold the rights, and interviewed the directors. He directed some episodes and watched over the development. It's a pointless discussion.

[StepStark]

Well said.

And that guy that Daario and GW capture... It was incredibly stupid, the whole thing. I'm still trying to figure out how the hell did he manage to wall himself in like that? LOL

Series 5 has massive plot holes. Plot holes the size of Jupiter.

Yes, that guy inside wall is really something. If school kid wrote something that stupid for homework, somebody would definitely warn parents that perhaps kid would be better off in special class. Hey but didn't you hear that people love the show so we must not complain. And George especially. He has to be grateful that his series is adapted into this crap.

[kissdbyfire]

Yes, that guy inside wall is really something. If school kid wrote something that stupid for homework, somebody would definitely warn parents that perhaps kid would be better off in special class. Hey but didn't you hear that people love the show so we must not complain. And George especially. He has to be grateful that his series is adapted into this crap.

LOL

Yeah, well...

Here's a list of highest grossing films 2000 - 2009, all very popular, obviously. I had a quick look and there're a few Transformers, a couple of SW, etc. Some are good or ok, some are trash. I agree with you, popularity does not equal quality.

Watching GoT series 5 doesn't require suspension of disbelief, it requires a lobotomy.

[StepStark]

Once more, popularity has nothing to do with ratings. It's has good ratings by both critics and viewers.

Your entire argument is just trying to nitpick whatever you think can be used to help your argument. This has nothing to do with the audience. The audience doesn't have to like it to watch it, YOU are a testament to that. Do you not watch it? 24 won an award, great! What did I just tell you. Taking one variable doesn't make it good. Critics and viewer reviews aren't as high, it doesn't have the same viewership..etc. So history doesn't prove nothing for you, if anything it proves that you are wrong. It's like you completely ignored my post and started talking about another show because you think it proves your point. You also keep saying, many shows but keep failing to mention them. What is many? 2? 3? WHAT?

THIS is mostly opinion. And for that reason, I'm not going to address it. In the same way, I can start complaining that the book is illogical. Like you would think that, oh I don't know, Stannis would by now make, oh I DON"T KNOW 50 kids to use as kings blood. Nitpicking is nit picking. Associating logical reasoning in a show is stupid in itself. Those great shows that you even mentioned yourself have the same problem, that is a universal problem with TV Series.

And again, your opinion of whether or not this show is an adaption or not is irrelevant. GRRM says it is, sold the rights, and interviewed the directors. He directed some episodes and watched over the development. It's a pointless discussion.

What rating are you talking about please? IMDB? Jesus, are you serious? Is that your argument? Why didn't you say right away? You'd save me lot of time because I wouldn't waste single letter arguing with someone who worships IMDB ratings.

Oh and that other part is precious. "This is mostly opinion and I'm not going to address it". Just so you know, I asked you direct question and you failed to answer because you can't have any reasonable answer. I asked you for your opinion and you failed to provide it. And that is all one needs to know about ratings of the show.

[StepStark]

LOL

Yeah, well...

Here's a list of highest grossing films 2000 - 2009, all very popular, obviously. I had a quick look and there're a few Transformers, a couple of SW, etc. Some are good or ok, some are trash. I agree with you, popularity does not equal quality.

Watching GoT series 5 doesn't require suspension of disbelief, it requires a lobotomy.

Are you disapproving unmistakable IMDB ratings? Are you saying something can be wrong with almighty IMDB ratings? You are just going to stand there and tell me that IMDB ratings are not the best thing our poor species received from heaven ever since Ten Commandments? Some nerve you have...