Joe Pesci Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Really? And what are those crimes? Does being a Son of the Harpy count? And just for kicks, without seeing the other side of the wall, how do we not know there isn't a 'hidden door' behind a cabinet or something and Daario stabbed through the backside of the wall to catch him off guard? Yeah I'm stretching here but at least it could be possible? :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man from Nowhere Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Guys lets stop these essay type arguments lol. Last few pages have offered nothing constructive to this tread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Really? And what are those crimes? Conspiracy/treason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjlxking Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 No, it is you who are jumping. And you're avoiding question again. We can discuss books, but first just answer one direct question: why does that man hide inside walls? I'm not jumping. I've been asking for the links for the past 4 pages or so I've told you that the show is a success and it's great. I've told you what this is based on, regardless of my opinion or yours. It's you who has been jumping from one explanation to the next on why you claim the show is both stupid and a bad adaption. Each reason was based on your opinion. You think the show sucks, you think it's illogical, or that it isn't an adaption to the novel. You think the show is bad/stupid so you went from shows/movies to try and draw correlation, you have tried Transformers, Lost, and what else? So once again, we are here. I've told you 3 times, I guess ill say it again. It doesn't matter what I THINK or what my answer is. Just to amuse you, i'll agree that it was stupid. What does that prove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
of man and wolf Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 But how can they include any of those important nuances and details while at the same time setting up Trant as a pedophile and having Sansa raped? In other words, how can you remain faithful to the spirit of the novels while also including your own sensationalist BS to drive ratings? It must be hard for D&D to manage. Rapes happened at winterfell in the books. This time it happened to Sansa...so what's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya and Needle Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I do have to side with Martin though when he brings up something such as Stoneheart. It's one thing to cut out Jeyne Poole or Strong Belwas, but ENTIRELY another to cut out Stoneheart. The Stoneheart cut just seems...I don't know...maybe spiteful and excessive on the showrunners' parts. I simply cannot understand it in any other light to cut out such a huge part of the story and then troll book readers about it like they do. Well, Stoneheart is in all of, what, 5 pages out of 5000? I'm not sure we can say that she's a "huge part of the story" right now. She might be - I'm not saying she's not! - but it's just really hard for us to tell at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Does being a Son of the Harpy count? And just for kicks, without seeing the other side of the wall, how do we not know there isn't a 'hidden door' behind a cabinet or something and Daario stabbed through the backside of the wall to catch him off guard? Yeah I'm stretching here but at least it could be possible? :dunno: So he was hiding because he is Son of the Harpy. Is that what Sons of the Harpy do. They hide? So what if he didn't hide? He wouldn't be caught then right? Why was he hiding then? Just because he was Son of the Harpy? That is logical fallacy Im talking about: he was caught because he was hiding but why was he hiding in the first place? It makes no sense at all and that is really saying something because honestly I think that that has to be worst arrest scene I ever seen in my life. Just think about it: there are literally thousands arrest scenes in movies and television and there is probably not even single one that is as stupid as this one. What do that says about D&D please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Conspiracy/treason. So he was hiding because he is Son of the Harpy. Is that what Sons of the Harpy do. They hide? So what if he didn't hide? He wouldn't be caught then right? Why was he hiding then? Just because he was Son of the Harpy? That is logical fallacy Im talking about: he was caught because he was hiding but why was he hiding in the first place? It makes no sense at all and that is really saying something because honestly I think that that has to be worst arrest scene I ever seen in my life. Just think about it: there are literally thousands arrest scenes in movies and television and there is probably not even single one that is as stupid as this one. What do that says about D&D please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I'm not jumping. I've been asking for the links for the past 4 pages or so I've told you that the show is a success and it's great. I've told you what this is based on, regardless of my opinion or yours. It's you who has been jumping from one explanation to the next on why you claim the show is both stupid and a bad adaption. Each reason was based on your opinion. You think the show sucks, you think it's illogical, or that it isn't an adaption to the novel. You think the show is bad/stupid so you went from shows/movies to try and draw correlation, you have tried Transformers, Lost, and what else? So once again, we are here. I've told you 3 times, I guess ill say it again. It doesn't matter what I THINK or what my answer is. Just to amuse you, i'll agree that it was stupid. What does that prove? What links? How can I put any link to prove you that Martin is ignoring the show and that he didn't post any news about the show on his site for long time. Go to his site and you will see it yourself. Elio and Linda are owners of this site and they post video reviews and in their last video they explained in length why are they quitting the show. About book readers you can go through Rant and rave threads on this site and you can go on other fan sites like Tower of the hand and you will see that many readers are also very disappointed in the show. There is also this article which someone posted weeks ago: http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/06/george-rr-martin-showrunner-war/ But listen first you need to learn to separate facts from opinions. Until you do that we can't have discussion because its impossible to discuss things with someone who confuses facts and opinions. It is fact that the show is successful and I didn't deny it but it is also fact that that fact says nothing about its quality and for that I gave you all those examples like Lost and Transformers and 24. But on the other hand judging quality of something is having opinion and opinions can be discussed while facts can't. But facts have to be acknowledged. Yes the show is stupid because it has stupid scenes in every episode and because it is written by two guys who don't know how to write arrest scene and 8 billion viewers couldn't change that fact that scene of arresting that man lacks basic logic. Denying that fact would be same as denying that the show is successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashless Society Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 So he was hiding because he is Son of the Harpy. Is that what Sons of the Harpy do. They hide? So what if he didn't hide? He wouldn't be caught then right? Why was he hiding then? Just because he was Son of the Harpy? That is logical fallacy Im talking about: he was caught because he was hiding but why was he hiding in the first place? It makes no sense at all and that is really saying something because honestly I think that that has to be worst arrest scene I ever seen in my life. Just think about it: there are literally thousands arrest scenes in movies and television and there is probably not even single one that is as stupid as this one. What do that says about D&D please?Wasn't he hiding because GW and Daario were after him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxavier Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 xjlxking - I really admire your tenacity but sometimes it's no use. Some people just want to have their opinion reinforced and aren't interested in discussion. So he was hiding because he is Son of the Harpy. Is that what Sons of the Harpy do. They hide? So what if he didn't hide? He wouldn't be caught then right? Why was he hiding then? Just because he was Son of the Harpy? That is logical fallacy Im talking about: he was caught because he was hiding but why was he hiding in the first place? It makes no sense at all and that is really saying something because honestly I think that that has to be worst arrest scene I ever seen in my life. Just think about it: there are literally thousands arrest scenes in movies and television and there is probably not even single one that is as stupid as this one. What do that says about D&D please? Give it a rest... you'll hurt yourself. Also helps if you actually watch the scene of course. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 xjlxking - I really admire your tenacity but sometimes it's no use. Some people just want to have their opinion reinforced and aren't interested in discussion. Give it a rest... you'll hurt yourself. Also helps if you actually watch the scene of course. :rolleyes: Instead of being so snarky why don't you tell us what is there in that scene that I maybe missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreOrLess Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Honestly I think the show made the correct decision in keeping the story as narrow as possible for this season as unlike previous seasons you don't really have a central location in Kings Landing where multiple different characters and stories play off of each other. Each plot/location needs that extra time to really establish itself. Even moreso than the books I just think the loss of certain characters was felt because the likes of Dance and McCann played them so well, the former especially really added so much to the series not just though his own character by the way he played off everyone else. As unhappy as some are with the way the character has been handled I actually felt Stephen Dilane really stepped up this season although he wasn't able to play off of as many other characters as Tywin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Wasn't he hiding because GW and Daario were after him? And they were after him because he was hiding right? So all in all everything is just one big circle of non-logical actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptajn Congoboy Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 As a commercial show, I think it is doing what it wants to do. It generates ratings and viewers keep buying HBO subscriptions. It also opens the gate for big-budget fantasy series, which is a good thing, finding a book to serialize that can compete with ASoIaF is going to be a tall order - a lot of the popular fantasy out there is far more flawed than ASoIaF, warts and all. The show's main problem, I think, is that they don't really know what to do with the stories when they deviate far from the book storyline. They added in some minor characters after removing major or minor characters that really didn't serve any purpose beyond getting more nudity on screen (Ros, Daisy, Olivar and a bunch of named prostitues), replace or change other characters (Reginald & Alton Lannister, Missandrei whose adult love subplot seems to serve no purpose whatsoever), serve no real purpose that isn't already served by other characters (Olly, ) or condense plots (Malko and Fennesz). The last is what really should have been the main purpose of new characters. They fleshed out the Brienne story to some extent (while dumping a lot of stuff that might have worked as well, had they only changed it slightly) and made her much more capable at arms than she is supposed to be, which in my mind detracts from her characterization. Brienne is woman trying to compete in a man's profession in a man's world, and she becomes much more interesting if she struggles to do so rather than being able to beat the Hound in combat. They also do some very odd things to other characters. Stannis is just all over the place, sometimes being Book Stannis and sometimes being Weirdo Stannis. Renly and Loras were a parody, catering to modern attitudes to homosexuality to an extent that made them a parody. Cercei got flatter. Jaime got flatter. Daenarys - a character badly in need of change - is as uninteresting in the show as the books. Bran turned from someone who tries to follow a moral code and pays for it to a horny idiot in his marriage plot, whose sole purpose seemed to be to have the Freys and Boltons kill an expectant mother for cheap shock value. That being said, there are good points as well, which we should not forget. Removing Connington and having some of his stuff reappear in more screen time for Jorah Mormont was a great decicion. Condencing pages and pages of uneccessary Slaver's Bay wheeling & dealing was a good decicion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxavier Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Instead of being so snarky why don't you tell us what is there in that scene that I maybe missed? Why bother? You've demonstrated no inclination towards an honest discussion. You just want to rant and rave about how the show has done all these things differently to the books and is crap as a result - despite its success in virtually every measure we have except the Westeros book purist metric. And let's be honest here, if I did explain what was going on, or you actually watched the show, then you'd just find some other trivial deviation to battle over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashless Society Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 And they were after him because he was hiding right? So all in all everything is just one big circle of non-logical actions.No, Daario tells GW that the second sons went undercover trying to see who was a member of the SOTH, apparently that guy realised he was being investigated and decided to hide inside a wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 No, Daario tells GW that the second sons went undercover trying to see who was a member of the SOTH, apparently that guy realised he was being investigated and decided to hide inside a wall. They were undercover but he realized he is investigated? And then he decides to hide inside walls? Not run from city, but hide inside walls? Does all this sounds logical to you really? Edit to add: and in the end they just have no charges against him just like they say when they discuss this arrest with Dany little later. Barristan directly says that they don't know what this man did or didn't do and Daario says that he questioned (tortured) him but he just doesn't know anything. So why was he suspicious then please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Why bother? You've demonstrated no inclination towards an honest discussion. You just want to rant and rave about how the show has done all these things differently to the books and is crap as a result - despite its success in virtually every measure we have except the Westeros book purist metric. And let's be honest here, if I did explain what was going on, or you actually watched the show, then you'd just find some other trivial deviation to battle over. Why don't you simply and honestly admit that you obviously don't have logical answer because there actually isn't any logical answer because that scene really don't have any logic in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxavier Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Why don't you simply and honestly admit that you obviously don't have logical answer because there actually isn't any logical answer because that scene really don't have any logic in it? Haha. Let's try an exercise. Play the devil's advocate and see if you can find the logic in this part of the story. Try to do this without having the presupposition that no logic can be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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