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[BOOK SPOILERS] EP104 Discussion, Take Two


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126 replies to this topic

#41 Bronn Stone

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 12:33 PM

Hi, I'm new!


Welcome!

2. I actually did not mind that Littlefinger got the Hound's lines. I think it is a nod to what happens in the future, with Littlefinger and Sansa at the Vale. After this, I don't think they interact much at all (but my memory is fuzzy - it's been a while since I read the books), what with Littlefinger trying to appear as disinterested in Sansa as possible. If we ever do get to Season 4 - it'll be nice for nonreaders to go back to Season 1, and see that Littlefinger did take a bit of an unusual vested interest in Sansa. It's nice that while Littlefinger did answer Arya's question and didn't ignore Arya persay, it's clear his attention is all focused on Sansa.


LF actually approaches her and starts the conversation with a creepy 'you must be her daughter' and a creepier stroke of her hair.

When Sansa finally looked up, a man was standing over her, staring. He was short, with a pointed beard and a silver streak in his hair, almost as old as her father. “You must be one of her daughters,” he said to her. He had grey-green eyes that did not smile when his mouth did. “You have the Tully look.”
“I’m Sansa Stark,” she said, ill at ease. The man wore a heavy cloak with a fur collar, fastened with a silver mockingbird, and he had the effortless manner of a high lord, but she did not know him. “I have not had the honor, my lord.”
Septa Mordane quickly took a hand. “Sweet child, this is Lord Petyr Baelish, of the king’s small council.”
“Your mother was my queen of beauty once,” the man said quietly. His breath smelled of mint. “You have her hair.” His fingers brushed against her cheek as he stroked one auburn lock. Quite abruptly he turned and walked away.



#42 bens

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 12:38 PM

I liked the septa/sansa scene. it was important, as it did inform how succession laws are in westros, and that becomes important when joffery dies.


They were wrong about the succession laws, though, or at least different from the books. In the books a lord's daughter would inherit before his brother if he had no sons. (Although the Targaryen succession rules were different.) The line of succession from Robert, if Cersei's children were legitimate, would be: Joffrey, Tommen, Myrcella, Stannis, Shireen, Renly.

Edited by bens, 11 May 2011 - 12:41 PM.


#43 Jaime L

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 12:41 PM

This moment is pretty much the high point for the Starks in King's Landing.


Fixed for you.

The only other reasonable contenders in my mind would be Grey Wind biting off most of GreatJon Umber's Fingers and that one time Benjen got drunk.

#44 aeu

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 12:49 PM

Coat = coat of arms


That's what I thought, and didn't even consider she was talking about something else, until I saw the posts here.

Do people wear coats in Westeros? And if they do, do they put sigils on them? I thought they were all about cloaks...

#45 Arya The Assassin

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 01:54 PM

For those who felt a bit disappointed by the lack of Hound/Sansa-interaction in episode 4 (it didn't really bother me that much, although I think it'd have been better if the Hound himself told the story to Sansa):

A Twitter-user complained about this:

@BryanCogman what happened to The Hound telling Sansa himself? Man, that was badly done... Huge disappointment there.


Bryan Cogman (who wrote episode 4) replied:

@Horst_Slammer The Hound/Sansa relationship is still a big part of the show. Stay classy, though!



#46 Huan

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 02:05 PM

For those who felt a bit disappointed by the lack of Hound/Sansa-interaction in episode 4 (it didn't really bother me that much, although I think it'd have been better if the Hound himself told the story to Sansa):

A Twitter-user complained about this:


@BryanCogman what happened to The Hound telling Sansa himself? Man, that was badly done... Huge disappointment there.


Bryan Cogman (who wrote episode 4) replied:

@Horst_Slammer The Hound/Sansa relationship is still a big part of the show. Stay classy, though!



Thanks, that's great to read! I also liked his tweet from May 6:

Back to Belfast in a few hours... kings will clash.



#47 Tywin's bastard

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 02:07 PM

There's plenty of aspects of the Sandor/Sansa relationship left so I have faith in that it can work very well in the coming episodes. Not worth commenting too much until I've actually seen how they handle it.

Can't help feeling a bit embarrassed as a fan when I see that twitter to Cogman.

Edited by Tywin's bastard, 11 May 2011 - 02:08 PM.


#48 Arya The Assassin

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 02:20 PM

Thanks, that's great to read! I also liked his tweet from May 6:


Nice tweet, looking forward to season two! I should perhaps have mentioned that the guy who criticized Bryan also said that he loved the rest of the episode.

Can't help feeling a bit embarrassed as a fan when I see that twitter to Cogman.


It looks like the guy felt bad about the way he 'presented' his opinion. At first he simply wrote that he loved the rest of the episode, but a few minutes ago he changed his reply and wrote:

@BryanCogman watching again and i repeat you did amazingly well. forgive my little rant earlier... it was not meant to sound personal.


Bryan also received a lot of praise directly on his Twitter account after episode 4. I think it was well deserved.

EDIT: Added reply to Tywin's Bastard.

Edited by DaenerysTargaryen, 11 May 2011 - 02:27 PM.


#49 Tywin's bastard

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 02:30 PM

It looks like the guy felt bad about the way he 'presented' his opinion. At first he simply wrote that he loved the rest of the episode, but a few minutes ago he changed his reply and wrote:

That's good and my feelings are washed away. It takes maturity to admit when you are wrong or say something rash.

#50 FlipFantastic

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 03:08 PM

The scene with Ned and Cersei was way way wayyy WAY WAYYYY WYAY YWywwyayayayw wya way to blatant, i hated it! "I was taught to kill my enemies" "as was i" ominous stare... dun dun DUNNNNN!!!!! Cliche hollywood awfulness right there. Also, wasnt this line already used with Cersei and Joff? Ugh triple ugh, ruined the episode.

Edited by FlipFantastic, 11 May 2011 - 03:09 PM.


#51 busyizzy

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 03:16 PM

Welcome!



LF actually approaches her and starts the conversation with a creepy 'you must be her daughter' and a creepier stroke of her hair.


Oh yes, now I remember that part. I still stand by what I say - after this (or even if they have a few more interactions that I don't recall, when time comes and Joffrey starts mistreating her, Littlefinger is nowhere to be seen), they don't have much interactions, which is planned by Littlefinger himself when he says he couldn't approach her at all and instead sent Dontos to be her knight.

When that time comes (season 3 I suppose), I think it'll be a nice nod to this episode for nonreaders to rewatch and say, oh YEAH, he was a bit of a creeper, huh!!

.... specially with that awesome creeper gif LOL.

(and thanks for the welcome~!)

Edited by busyizzy, 11 May 2011 - 03:19 PM.


#52 Ser Kevan Raley

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 04:07 PM

Bryan Cogman (who wrote episode 4) replied:
@Horst_Slammer The Hound/Sansa relationship is still a big part of the show. Stay classy, though!

Ah, good! My mind is at ease. I still would have preferred for it to have been Sandor telling Sansa though. But I can live with it. It was a very good episode. And I love the whole show.

#53 Tyrion Lannister

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 04:14 PM

The scene with Ned and Cersei was way way wayyy WAY WAYYYY WYAY YWywwyayayayw wya way to blatant, i hated it! "I was taught to kill my enemies" "as was i" ominous stare... dun dun DUNNNNN!!!!! Cliche hollywood awfulness right there. Also, wasnt this line already used with Cersei and Joff? Ugh triple ugh, ruined the episode.

I wouldn't say that it ruined the episode, but I agree that both Ned and Cersei were way too blatant and spoke too freely in that scene.

Edited by Tyrion Lannister, 11 May 2011 - 04:15 PM.


#54 Charles Phipps

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 04:15 PM

Odd thought.

Did anyone think that Ser Gregor probably just killed Hugh for **** and giggles? Ironically, throwing suspicion on the Lannisters?

#55 Ser Warpechowski

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 04:20 PM

The post above me did give me an idea: Maybe the reason why LF told Sansa about the Hound story RIGHT THERE was meant to create a link between the Mountain and The Hound. That way you know they are both brothers, and The Hound being a bannerman to the Lanisters infers that Gregor is also a folower of the Lanisters. I watched a review from that guy Otakuassemble and he got to the conclusion that it was a setup after realizing the things I´ve wrote above.

Also, the TV show dont explore LF obsession with Cat as much as the book. Maybe they made him speak that just as a hint for future things to come.

#56 Ser Bronn o the Blackwater

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 04:21 PM

Odd thought.

Did anyone think that Ser Gregor probably just killed Hugh for **** and giggles? Ironically, throwing suspicion on the Lannisters?

Strange. The same thought has occurred to me as well. Born with a gift for violence and all that.

#57 Ran

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 04:36 PM

In the novels, I am absolutely sure that it was just Gregor being bloodthristy and nothing more.

On the show, I'm less sure.

#58 Tywin's bastard

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 05:12 PM

I also got the impression that Gregor just killed Hugh because he could, although that's an obvious conclusion as that's what the Hound says. I think the probability of it being an intentional killing of a suspect is the same in the book and on the show, which is slim since Gregor takes orders from Tywin, and probably tells almost anyone else to shove it (or worse if they aren't important enough) if they try to order him. The show can of course give a different perspective on Gregor, but it hasn't yet.

There's always a good point to make the audience wonder if it was ordered or not though.

Edited by Tywin's bastard, 11 May 2011 - 05:13 PM.


#59 Brewmaster

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 05:14 PM

In the novels, I am absolutely sure that it was just Gregor being bloodthristy and nothing more.

On the show, I'm less sure.


Well, in the sense that it was just Gregor being Gregor, I think that's true. I don't believe anybody told Gregor to kill Hugh.

With that said, I think the fact that Hugh was a person of interest for Ned and that an inexperienced knight, with no squire to make sure he was properly fitted, was matched up with Gregor was no coincidence.

Who put together the funds for the tournament again? Littlefinger. Who actually plotted Arryn's murder? Littlefinger. We'll likely never get a definitive, but I think its pretty likely that Littlefinger was behind pairing those two.

But, no, I don't think Gregor was in on the plan to kill Hugh any more than the boar was in on the plan to kill Robert.

#60 Xenophon

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 05:18 PM

I like how the show left us wondering if Hugh was killed deliberately. They're doing a good job of setting up various mysteries and hints to keep viewers guessing and give us the sense that there are plots everywhere.