Whispers Underground aka the Peter Grant thread

[Maltaran]

I suppose this is the general Peter Grant series thread?

I finished Broken Homes the other day and it was another pretty entertaining read although it did feel kind of like it was rushing up to the end though. Having said that though the end was pretty dramatic I certainly didn't see

Lesley going over to the dark side coming although in retrospect there were obviously some hints

.

I read it this week. I liked it, although I'm having difficulty discerning the motivations of the Faceless Man other than simply being evil.

[ljkeane]

That's true but we still don't really know a great deal about him at this point. So far I'd say it just looks like he's a criminal who happens to have access to magic but I suppose there could some more esoteric reasons for his actions that'll be revealed later.

[williamjm]

I finished it today (although I haven't read the Waterstone's exclusive short story yet). I thought it was another very entertaining book in the series, although like the earlier books there were some issues with pacing - the first two thirds are a bit slow and relatively uneventful, although the last section makes up for it.

I didn't spot the twist ending coming, although I think it does make sense that Lesley might be so desperate to have her face healed that she might be willing to team up with the only person likely to be able to heal her even if he was a psychopathic criminal. I might have considered Zach's alternative theory of her going undercover with Nightingale's approval if they hadn't had the Faceless Man in custody before she intervened.

There seem to be plenty of interesting plot threads for future books. There seem to be a few hints that there are more magical practitioners around the world than Nightingale was aware. It also seems that the Skygarden activation has boosted the magic around London (which was presumably what it was designed to do) judging from the final chapter with the elderly magician, it'll be interesting to see whether this is temporary or long-lasting and what the effects will be if it is the latter. There also seem to be lots of unexplained mysteries - what is Molly looking up on Peter's computer, what really happened at Etterburg, what is hidden behind the steel door in the Folly and what is the Faceless Man's long-term plan?

I read it this week. I liked it, although I'm having difficulty discerning the motivations of the Faceless Man other than simply being evil.

I think his overall plan is under-explained but his actions in this book do seem to make sense. Trying to harness Skygarden's stored magic is something that would obviously benefit him and he also obviously had a clear benefit from trying to place a spy inside the Folly.

[Cookyperm]

I think i'm the only person who has been disappointed by broken homes so far.

For me personally far too much of this book was spent on possible future plot devices rather than the actual plot itself.

I haven't learnt how to do hidden spoilers so i've written the following in white so scroll over to read.

It was the plots lines such as The "man" who sold the charm to Abigail in the spring fair , all the scars on Oberons back, Molly in the tech cave, the battleship door.

I can see the door becoming like Etterburg in that it will drag on through the books and i don't mind that at all, but the smaller plots especially the Abigail buying the charm that i find the most annoying.

It must be leading to something as otherwise it was a pointless passage of the book but in a book where the main story simply breezed over early murders or just passed them off as being comitted by the faceless man i feel it could of actually led somewhere in this book.

[Deedles]

I rather enjoyed it. While I get why people felt that the first half was a little rambly, I like that sort of set up. Solid transitional novel. Looking forward to the next one.

[john]

I found it rather disappointing. The books have been on a downhill slope since the first one, which was excellent. There was barely any plot related to this specific book and what there was wasn't resolved satisfactorily. The first book had a fantastic creepy, stand alone plot about the crazy Mr Punch spirit. Since then the plots of each book have been getting steadily weaker, with more reliance on Faceless Man stuff.

I agree with the criticisms above too. The Faceless Man isn't a criminal, he's a Bond villain. And the teasing about later plot points is just annoying now. Again, I thought it was cool in the first book how they didn't really know how magic worked, why Nightingale didn't age and all that. But three books later we still have no idea, just extra reminders that we don't know.

I thought Cornell's London Falling was so much better than this in so many respects. Although Aaronovitch still has more loveable characters and is funnier but that can't hold my attention by itself.

[williamjm]

I found it rather disappointing. The books have been on a downhill slope since the first one, which was excellent. There was barely any plot related to this specific book and what there was wasn't resolved satisfactorily. The first book had a fantastic creepy, stand alone plot about the crazy Mr Punch spirit. Since then the plots of each book have been getting steadily weaker, with more reliance on Faceless Man stuff.

I agree the first one is the best so far. The other three have all had some significant flaw. I thought the Jazz Vampires plot was overshadowed by the Faceless Man plot in Moon Over Soho, I found the Quiet People plot more interesting in Whispers Underground but it fizzled out a bit at the end and Broken Homes had a slow start even though the final section largely made up for it.

[RedEyedGhost]

I'm 115 pages in, and I'm not noticing it being slow. So that has me pretty excited for the rest of it.

[Lupigis]

I enjoyed Broken Homes and was not disappointed at all. However, one plot point that felt a little contrived was

Leslies betrayal. I found myself thinking not as much "oh no, what a shock" so much as "OK, so how will this work out in the sequel", because I just can't believe Aaronovitch intends for her to go to the dark side for good.

Another thing that could potentially develop into a source of frustration for me is how Aaronovitch keeps dropping hints about magic being more widely practiced than we learned about originally, but then doing nothing with that information. However, he may intend to do just that in the upcoming books, which will be fine with me.

Other that that, it was a good book, about on the level with the second of the series IMO.

Regrading the comparison with London Falling that was made upthread I would say that those books are very different in tone. London falling is a bit more of a crime noir/horror novel, while Aaronovitch's series is mote upbeat and humorous. I liked them both, but they are hard to compare fairly since they are attempting to do different things.

[john]

You think so? I think they're very similar. They're both police procedural/fantasy stories which go heavier on both these aspects than your average urban fantasy. The police details and the magic systems are well developed in each one. They're both London based, obviously.

London Falling is maybe a smidgen darker in tone than the Rivers of London series but those books have some pretty dark stuff too (although admittedly less and less since the first book, which might be part of my problem). And, in turn, I think there's plenty of humorous moments in London Falling as well, although Aaronovitch is probably better at that than Cornell.

[Lupigis]

You think so? I think they're very similar. They're both police procedural/fantasy stories which go heavier on both these aspects than your average urban fantasy. The police details and the magic systems are well developed in each one.

That's true of course, but I was thinking more of the state of mind of the main protagonists. In the Rivers of London series, we see everything from Peter Grant's perspective, and while he has his fair share of problems, he is basically happy and optimistic. He clearly enjoys doing magic and wants to learn more, right from the start.

In London Falling, all the POV characters basically unhappy, for different reasons and to different extents, but unhappy nonetheless. They also (at least through most of the book) consider their newfound magical abilities to be much more of a curse than a blessing. They are also rather confused and pessimistic about what they will actually be able to achieve.

Taken together, these differences made the books feel very different to me.

[RedEyedGhost]

I finished it today (although I haven't read the Waterstone's exclusive short story yet). I thought it was another very entertaining book in the series, although like the earlier books there were some issues with pacing - the first two thirds are a bit slow and relatively uneventful, although the last section makes up for it.

I think that's one of the things that I actually like about this series. That style of pacing feels more real to me than how most police procedurals are... I was going to say written, but I think presented is the better term in either the novel or television format. Most of the time all we see is the actual case that they're working, while the detectives have other obligations and responsibilities - Peter gives us his insight into this, and at the same time makes the story feel a bit lackadaisical.

I didn't spot the twist ending coming, although I think it does make sense that Lesley might be so desperate to have her face healed that she might be willing to team up with the only person likely to be able to heal her even if he was a psychopathic criminal. I might have considered Zach's alternative theory of her going undercover with Nightingale's approval if they hadn't had the Faceless Man in custody before she intervened.

There seem to be plenty of interesting plot threads for future books. There seem to be a few hints that there are more magical practitioners around the world than Nightingale was aware. It also seems that the Skygarden activation has boosted the magic around London (which was presumably what it was designed to do) judging from the final chapter with the elderly magician, it'll be interesting to see whether this is temporary or long-lasting and what the effects will be if it is the latter. There also seem to be lots of unexplained mysteries - what is Molly looking up on Peter's computer, what really happened at Etterburg, what is hidden behind the steel door in the Folly and what is the Faceless Man's long-term plan?

Or is it that Skygarden was creating a dampening effect as it was absorbing magic from an unspecified area... I wish I had been paying closer attention to those sections, specifically the date around when Skygarden was built, and how that coincides with other magical events in universe.

I've actually been waiting for Lesley to "turn" since her first manifestation of magic. Maybe I'm just too damn cynical though.

I think his overall plan is under-explained but his actions in this book do seem to make sense. Trying to harness Skygarden's stored magic is something that would obviously benefit him and he also obviously had a clear benefit from trying to place a spy inside the Folly.

:agree:

I haven't learnt how to do hidden spoilers so i've written the following in white so scroll over to read.

{spoiler}Peter's mother is the Faceless Man{/spoiler} :P Just use [ ] instead of { }

It was the plots lines such as The "man" who sold the charm to Abigail in the spring fair , all the scars on Oberons back, Molly in the tech cave, the battleship door.

I can see the door becoming like Etterburg in that it will drag on through the books and i don't mind that at all, but the smaller plots especially the Abigail buying the charm that i find the most annoying.

It must be leading to something as otherwise it was a pointless passage of the book but in a book where the main story simply breezed over early murders or just passed them off as being comitted by the faceless man i feel it could of actually led somewhere in this book.

I do think Aaronovitch is slow playing it a bit too much, but as I stated above

I don't mind him meandering a bit and dropping those nuggets - assuming they pay off later. I just wish:

I agree the first one is the best so far. The other three have all had some significant flaw. I thought the Jazz Vampires plot was overshadowed by the Faceless Man plot in Moon Over Soho, I found the Quiet People plot more interesting in Whispers Underground but it fizzled out a bit at the end and Broken Homes had a slow start even though the final section largely made up for it.

I wish that Aaronovitch did a better job of balancing the individual book's plots with the overall plot, and that each book's plot was more engaging on their own

I agree with the criticisms above too. The Faceless Man isn't a criminal, he's a Bond villain. And the teasing about later plot points is just annoying now. Again, I thought it was cool in the first book how they didn't really know how magic worked, why Nightingale didn't age and all that. But three books later we still have no idea, just extra reminders that we don't know.

Does anybody know how long the series is supposed to be? The last I saw was 5 books - which is I believe how many Aaronovitch was under contract for, but not necessarily how many he wanted to write.

He definitely needs to start giving us more concrete information if he's planning to go around the 10 book mark.

You think so? I think they're very similar. They're both police procedural/fantasy stories which go heavier on both these aspects than your average urban fantasy. The police details and the magic systems are well developed in each one. They're both London based, obviously.

London Falling is maybe a smidgen darker in tone than the Rivers of London series but those books have some pretty dark stuff too (although admittedly less and less since the first book, which might be part of my problem). And, in turn, I think there's plenty of humorous moments in London Falling as well, although Aaronovitch is probably better at that than Cornell.

A smidgen?? Let me know when the Faceless Man starts

cooking babies

Even discounting that, I think London Falling is much darker in tone. And while there is humor, it is much more scarce than in Aaronovitch's works.

[john]

Well, Rivers of London had a baby thrown out of a window. The vagina dentata bits I found pretty dark too. :P

Anyway, regarding the "secret door" in the Folly ...

In Rivers of London Peter mentions that the Folly has three libraries but he "didn't know about one of them then." And it's not been mentioned since so I guess the secret door could be the third library, which presumably would contain all the magical secrets.

[Darth Visenya]

I've started London Falling after re reading this thread, so far it's ok but the writing style isn't as good in my opinion.

[RedEyedGhost]

Well, Rivers of London had a baby thrown out of a window. The vagina dentata bits I found pretty dark too. :P

Anyway, regarding the "secret door" in the Folly ...

In Rivers of London Peter mentions that the Folly has three libraries but he "didn't know about one of them then." And it's not been mentioned since so I guess the secret door could be the third library, which presumably would contain all the magical secrets.

That's a good thought. I do hope that Peter now gets really serious about his training and levels up. There was a line around the 100 page mark where Nightingale is making a point about training and how he would get distracted by certain things, and Peter immediately asks "By what?" Followed by a quick, "Peter!" by Nightingale. It was perfect. The fact that Lesley is on his level with a year's less training is inexcusable.

I've started London Falling after re reading this thread, so far it's ok but the writing style isn't as good in my opinion.

Just wait until the ghost gets herpes. You're going to love that!

[Lupigis]

Does anybody know how long the series is supposed to be? The last I saw was 5 books - which is I believe how many Aaronovitch was under contract for, but not necessarily how many he wanted to write.

I distinctly remember him stating (on his blog or twitter, I'm not sure) that it's open ended and that he intends keep going as long as there are buyers for the books.

ETA: Found it, here is a link to the blogpost:

http://temporarilysignificant.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/a-clarification.html

[williamjm]

Or is it that Skygarden was creating a dampening effect as it was absorbing magic from an unspecified area... I wish I had been paying closer attention to those sections, specifically the date around when Skygarden was built, and how that coincides with other magical events in universe.

You could be right about it having a dampening effect but the way I interpreted it, Skygarden was built to gradually accumulate magic from its inhabitants and immediate surroundings even though they weren't necessarily magical themselves and then distribute that magic around the city once it had built up to a certain amount.

Anyway, regarding the "secret door" in the Folly ...

I have no evidence for this, but I suspect it might somehow be related to what happened at Ettersburg, it would explain why Nightingale is so concerned about it potentially being compromised. It could contain magical weapons used during the War, although a more intriguing possibility would be if it was some sort of prison.

[RedEyedGhost]

You could be right about it having a dampening effect but the way I interpreted it, Skygarden was built to gradually accumulate magic from its inhabitants and immediate surroundings even though they weren't necessarily magical themselves and then distribute that magic around the city once it had built up to a certain amount.

Honestly the tower having a dampening effect didn't even occur to me until I read your post :P Which is why I wish I had read more closely on how its timing coincides with other magical events, because it might have some merit. The fallout from it will be very interesting regardless.

I have no evidence for this, but I suspect it might somehow be related to what happened at Ettersburg, it would explain why Nightingale is so concerned about it potentially being compromised. It could contain magical weapons used during the War, although a more intriguing possibility would be if it was some sort of prison.

These are definitely some great possibilities. Is the next book out yet! :tantrum:

[Jussi]

Blurb for book five, Foxglove Summer:

In the fifth of his bestselling series Ben Aaronovitch takes Peter Grant out of whatever comfort zone he might have found and takes him out of London - to a small village in Herefordshire where the local police are reluctant to admit that there might be a supernatural element to the disappearance of some local children. But while you can take the London copper out of London you can't take the London out of the copper.

Travelling west with Beverley Brook Peter soon finds himself caught up in a deep mystery and having to tackle local cops and local gods. And what's more all the shops are closed by 4pm...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Foxglove-Summer-Ben-Aaronovitch/dp/0575132507/

[Lupigis]

Sounds good!