Jon and Sansa's relationship?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

She prays for him during the BBW, she is happy when she hears he was made LC, in the Vale she wishes she could go see him. It's quite clear that she cared for him.

Maybe, but I said I remembered that one, not what she has done or said in the book series.

[Budj]

I would say that Jon and Sansa weren't very close at all. I think Sansa took her mother's mentality towards Jon and felt like he wasn't like the rest. Not saying she was horrible to him, but there is a distinction between her and the other Stark kids relationships with Jon.

Now the awesome thing is that she is getting a taste of the bastard life...albeit a little more luxorious due to LF's creepy old-man crush...but I do think the b.s. she went through at KL has made her more fond of Jon than at the start of the series. Not to mention she has had some more bastards to compare her "brother" (i.e. probably cousin) to...i.e. Joffrey, etc and her entire outlook on life is a lot different too.

[Free Northman]

She is the only one of the siblings to take care to emphasize that he was only her half-brother, where the others loved him as a full brother.

[E-Ro]

OMG, there is no way Jon is ever going to marry Sansa (or Arya), even if it comes out they are only first cousins. First cousins marrying first cousins is one thing. First cousins marrying first cousins they grew up thinking were their sisters is another.

Why does them growing up together matter? I think its a splendid match to strengthen house stark and bring in the riverlands and vale.

[Cressit]

On topic, I think they were a bit distant with each other, but it didn't quite reached "dislike". Sansa was a proper little lady, I can't see her calling him "bastard" in his face, for example. Distance and hardship, later, makes them think back on those happier, simpler times and they find the love for each other they couldn't quite describe as summer children.

Didn't stop her ladylike mother from doing it (sorry - couldn't resist! :cool4: )

It doesn't have to be either an incredibly close relationship or a loveless one between Jon and Sansa. I don't read too much into Jon's not remembering Sansa as warmly as he does Arya or Sansa thinking of Jon as a half-brother. To me they read like a normal pair of adolescent siblings that don't have that much in common. There is a real connection because they are family, but not an easy affection. I have five brothers so I'm used to sibling relationships that change all the time as you all age together.

[NotSoSilentSister]

Why does them growing up together matter? I think its a splendid match to strengthen house stark and bring in the riverlands and vale.

Because of the Westermarck effect - people who live very close to each other during their formative years tend to become desensitized to later sexual attraction.

[smallfolktypeperson]

It doesn't have to be either an incredibly close relationship or a loveless one between Jon and Sansa. I don't read too much into Jon's not remembering Sansa as warmly as he does Arya or Sansa thinking of Jon as a half-brother. To me they read like a normal pair of adolescent siblings that don't have that much in common. There is a real connection because they are family, but not an easy affection. I have five brothers so I'm used to sibling relationships that change all the time as you all age together.

I agree with this...plus as far as she (and he) know, they are all that is left of the family, because if I recall correctly, they believe that Bran and Rickon are dead and seems most everyone assumes Arya is too. That would tend to change the way you view someone, I think. Seems like when she "becomes" Alayne she thinks that she would really like to see Jon, and it didn't come across to me as though she still felt superior to him...I think a lot of that has been stripped out of Sansa at this point. I think at this point she'd be desperately glad to see any Stark, even a half-brother.

[kg1982]

Sansa's love for ballads isn't really that much different from Jon's love for military histories. Both had incredibly active fantasy lives as children, and both are in the process of getting a huge reality check.

[Grail King]

Yes she cares for Jon, but being brought up as the eldest daughter and to follow Westerous norms she would hold him lower on the social ladder especially in present of other people.

All this has been removed ( or a good part ) from her since she left Winterfell.

Also one minor correction, on the outside Sansa appears to be Cat's daughter, but it is the inside that counts more, and on the inside there is no doubt that she is the daughter of Eddard Stark.

[Pod The Impaler]

Their relationship was probably the least close of all the children. That's not to say that they weren't friendly but Sansa is very much Cat's daughter and Cat always made it clear that he was only their half brother.

I would say that Jon and Sansa weren't very close at all. I think Sansa took her mother's mentality towards Jon and felt like he wasn't like the rest. Not saying she was horrible to him, but there is a distinction between her and the other Stark kids relationships with Jon.

Now the awesome thing is that she is getting a taste of the bastard life...albeit a little more luxorious due to LF's creepy old-man crush...but I do think the b.s. she went through at KL has made her more fond of Jon than at the start of the series. Not to mention she has had some more bastards to compare her "brother" (i.e. probably cousin) to...i.e. Joffrey, etc and her entire outlook on life is a lot different too.

I agree with these.

One of the reasons that I say Sansa is very much Catelyn's daughter. She made a point of calling him half-brother, looking doiwn her nose at him. She's known Jon as long as Robb, of course - both being part of her house since before she was born. She may not be as vicious as her mother in slighting and shunning Jon, but neither did she look at him as a true brother, the way she saw Robb, nor how Arya saw Jon. She copied her mother's disapproval, but without the intensity because to Catelyn his existence is much more personal in insult; to Sansa it may merely have been a social embarassment.

Then again, that was before the war, before Sansa's captivity and escape, and before her having to pose as a bastard herself. I think Sansa since then has grown more appreciative of her family having lost them all. I think Sansa's attitude as a pretend-bastard is a bit funny - she says she has to act "bastard brave", but where did she get the idea that bastards are brave? Is it that she thinks they must be since they have so little social standing? Or maybe growing up, she saw Jon Snow was brave, and thought this is what bastards are all like?

[E-Ro]

Because of the Westermarck effect - people who live very close to each other during their formative years tend to become desensitized to later sexual attraction.

I disagree, some of the girls I grew up close to are attractive, I even dated one for a bit, didnt work out but it shows you can be attracted to people you grew up with.

[ARYa_Nym]

I disagree, some of the girls I grew up close to are attractive, I even dated one for a bit, didnt work out but it shows you can be attracted to people you grew up with.

It's more about being raised as family members. Besides he likes the warrior woman type-Val and Ygritte and for political purposes Dany and Arianne are best for a son of Rhaegar.

[Dr. Pepper]

The only time I recall about their relationship from Sansa's perspective was at GoT when she calls him "half-brother" when all the other children call him "brother".

Both Bran and Arya refer to Jon as their half-brother in each of their POV chapters. Little screen time with Rickon so unsure how he would have referred to Jon. I believe Robb refers to him as brother aloud.

[mormont]

She is the only one of the siblings to take care to emphasize that he was only her half-brother, where the others loved him as a full brother.

I would say that Jon and Sansa weren't very close at all. I think Sansa took her mother's mentality towards Jon and felt like he wasn't like the rest. Not saying she was horrible to him, but there is a distinction between her and the other Stark kids relationships with Jon.

Actually, I'd say that these are false impressions. We're actually told that Arya and Jon are unusually close and that she is the only one who doesn't refer to him as a 'half-brother'. It's not hard to find quotes in Bran's POV where he thinks of or speaks of Jon as his half-brother or bastard brother. I'm sure Sansa, being more concerned with social etiquette than the others, was probably more aware of what that meant, but it's Arya, not Sansa, who is noted as the exception to the rule. Coupled with the fact that both seem to have some positive recollections of the other, I think that it's very likely that they loved each other and got on (at worst) as well as Arya and Sansa did.

[Lyanna Stark]

While not close, there is no evidence in the books that suggest they didn't like each other. The few times they think about one another is always in a kind way. I like to think that should they reunite someday they will be happy to see each other again.

I agree with this. The one person Sansa seems to have had real problems with is Arya (and vice versa). The boys seem to have done quite a few things apart, like combat training, while Arya and Sansa were locked up with the septa. While Sansa thinks of Jon as her half-brother, she never thinks of him negatively. She's also ridiculously happy to hear about him in AFFC, to the point where she almost reveals herself accidentally to Myranda Royce.

[Lady Lea]

Because of the Westermarck effect - people who live very close to each other during their formative years tend to become desensitized to later sexual attraction.

omg I swear I learn something new here everyday. This makes so much sense too.

I agree with these.

One of the reasons that I say Sansa is very much Catelyn's daughter. She made a point of calling him half-brother, looking doiwn her nose at him. She's known Jon as long as Robb, of course - both being part of her house since before she was born. She may not be as vicious as her mother in slighting and shunning Jon, but neither did she look at him as a true brother, the way she saw Robb, nor how Arya saw Jon. She copied her mother's disapproval, but without the intensity because to Catelyn his existence is much more personal in insult; to Sansa it may merely have been a social embarassment.

He is her half-brother, though, isn't he? If she disliked him she could have called him bastard. But instead she calls him half-brother - which he is. I call my half-brothers like this too, doesn't mean I look down on them. Arya likes Jon a lot, but even she doesn't think of him as a Stark. It is what it is.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Both Bran and Arya refer to Jon as their half-brother in each of their POV chapters. Little screen time with Rickon so unsure how he would have referred to Jon. I believe Robb refers to him as brother aloud.

Once again, this is what I remembered I may be wrong.

[Jolene Brown]

I disagree, some of the girls I grew up close to are attractive, I even dated one for a bit, didnt work out but it shows you can be attracted to people you grew up with.

That's different from being attracted to someone you've thought of as your sister for your entire life!!

[E-Ro]

It's more about being raised as family members.

Ok, I geuss that would be akward, maybe a little uncomftorble, But I still think it could work though.

[Lyanna Stark]

Ok, I geuss that would be akward, maybe a little uncomftorble, But I still think it could work though.

Someone, I think Arya_Nym has actually presented some evidence for Jon being squicked by incest (or maybe not as squicked as he ought to be). I think it was Ygritte related.

You know, just to add my own bit of derailment. :)