What is Ned Stark's most negative trait or feature, if any?

[Shadrich]

Trusting Littlefinger. Ned's coup plan wasn't bad.

[rmd]

First, I acknowledge the man is not perfect and some of you might find the answer to this question too obvious but I'm really wondering about this one after rereading AGoT.

Is too much honor a negative trait?

⚡️

That honour above all else, whether it's a good idea or not. Ned would have returned the one ring to Sauron because it belonged to him.

[Shadrich]

That honour above all else, whether it's a good idea or not. Ned would have returned the one ring to Sauron because it belonged to him.

:lol:

I could so see him do that.

[rmd]

You know he would :D

[OnionAhaiReborn]

That honour above all else, whether it's a good idea or not. Ned would have returned the one ring to Sauron because it belonged to him.

I know this is meant as a joke, but I think it's actually exemplary of what I think is wrong about the way Ned's actions are thought about a lot of the time.

He's really not honorable in the extreme. He cares about honor, certainly, but when we look at the most important actions of his life, honor doesn't drive his decision as much as love and compassion. Raising Jon and keeping his promise to Lyanna requires not only that he fail to do the strictly 'honorable' thing by concealing the heir to the Targaryen dynasty from his friend and supported claimant to the IT, Robert, but also that he dishonor himself by acknowledging a bastard that he didn't actually father. When he informs Cersei that he knows about the twincest he is operating under no honor-based imperative, in fact honor would dictate that he immediately arrest and execute Cersei and her abominations. Lastly he chooses to dishonor himself by publicly recanting his allegations against Joffrey and avowing himself a traitor.

So honor registers as a concern with him, to be certain, but when it comes down to a conflict between his loved ones (or trying to avoid child murder), Ned chooses love over honor. Interestingly to me, in that last instance, it seems that if he had chosen honor over love he may have made it out of King's Landing alive. The Lannisters were not planning on executing him, and only dragged him out of the dungeon to 'confess his crimes,' but if he had held out for honor a bit longer, Robb would have captured Jaime Lannister and they may have been exchanged. If he had been a bit more honorable, he might have lived.

[The Fallen]

` It never fails. Start a thread about Ned and the peanut gallery chimes in, "he's dumb", "he's naive", "he has no political skills", etc ...

'Tis more complicated than that, I fear. I think Cas Stark, JLE and Jack's Smirk brought up good points.

I just want to remind that Ned had Varys, LF and Cersei plotting against him before he even set foot in King's Landing. Cersei was afraid that Ned would get Robert acting like a king again.

Ned ultimately acted like a guy who had the best hand, which he kind of did. He had the backing of Robert, especially, I would think, against the the charges of incest and the paternity of his "children".

And Ned's plan to spirit his daughters out of King's Landing were ruined by Sansa. Before the usual retorts start, let me break it down.

Cersei knew, from LF, that Ned would be acting against her and Joffrey, but she didn't know when, as Ned hadn't even told LF when he was doing it. Obviously, Ned was going to wait until after his daughters had left for Winterfell. The morning of their departure, Sansa tells Cersei that Ned was sending them away that day. Cersei then immediately makes her play so that she could have multiple hostages, and of course, be able to control Ned through Arya and Sansa.

Ultimately, Ned was undone by Robert dying, really.

Corrections.

[The Fallen]

I know this is meant as a joke, but I think it's actually exemplary of what I think is wrong about the way Ned's actions are thought about a lot of the time.

He's really not honorable in the extreme. He cares about honor, certainly, but when we look at the most important actions of his life, honor doesn't drive his decision as much as love and compassion. Raising Jon and keeping his promise to Lyanna requires not only that he fail to do the strictly 'honorable' thing by concealing the heir to the Targaryen dynasty from his friend and supported claimant to the IT, Robert, but also that he dishonor himself by acknowledging a bastard that he didn't actually father. When he informs Cersei that he knows about the twincest he is operating under no honor-based imperative, in fact honor would dictate that he immediately arrest and execute Cersei and her abominations. Lastly he chooses to dishonor himself by publicly recanting his allegations against Joffrey and avowing himself a traitor.

So honor registers as a concern with him, to be certain, but when it comes down to a conflict between his loved ones (or trying to avoid child murder), Ned chooses love over honor. Interestingly to me, in that last instance, it seems that if he had chosen honor over love he may have made it out of King's Landing alive. The Lannisters were not planning on executing him, and only dragged him out of the dungeon to 'confess his crimes,' but if he had held out for honor a bit longer, Robb would have captured Jaime Lannister and they may have been exchanged. If he had been a bit more honorable, he might have lived.

All very good points.

[Queen of Whores]

He's very dumb. Makes me wonder if he has some Greyjoy blood.

Crackpot time! Theon is Ned's bastard to Theon's mother. Balon found out and that's why he hates Theon, and why Ned was distant to Theon. He didn't want to get too attached to his son in case he had to execute him.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

And Sansa. SHE deserves the niave label much more than Ned but he seems to get blamed for the whole world bends to Cersei's insane plot.

[grand old duke of stark]

:lol:

I could so see him do that.

Not me. He knew evil and good. But I don't think he would have accompanied Frodo (except maybe as Sean Bean!)

[Ser Bedwell]

Having honor is not a negative character trait. Ned Stark was an honorable man who was a victim of a dishonorable system. Ned, in aGOT, reminded me of Mac in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest--a sane man, victim of an insane institution. I thought Ned was a fantastically written tragic character. He embodied many characteristics that we would find amiable in today's society--but today's society is not Westeros. Having honor, in and of itself, is not a character flaw. Ned's character flaw was that he had on black and white blinders in a grey world.

In aGOT, we want to root for Ned because he is the "good guy." But as the series progresses, we find find ourselves rooting for characters who champion values and actions we may find unscrupulous. But as sweet Cersei says, "When you play the Game of Thrones, you live or you die."

[Mark Antony]

Trusting Littlefinger. Ned's coup plan wasn't bad.

Yup I agree.

[Minsc]

And Sansa. SHE deserves the niave label much more than Ned but he seems to get blamed for the whole world bends to Cersei's insane plot.

Sansa was an eleven year old who had never left her home before, while Ned was thirty something old war veteran/lord. It doesn't really speak favorably of man if your only defense of his believed naiveness is that his young daughter was/is worse then him.

And Ned's plan to spirit his daughters out of King's Landing were ruined by Sansa. Before the usual retorts start, let me break it down.

Cersei knew, from LF, that Ned would be acting against her and Joffrey, but she didn't know when, as Ned hadn't even told LF when he was doing it. Obviously, Ned was going to wait until after his daughters had left for Winterfell. The morning of their departure, Sansa tells Cersei that Ned was sending them away that day. Cersei then immediately makes her play so that she could have multiple hostages, and of course, be able to control Ned through Arya and Sansa.

There were still a couple of hours before Sansa/Arya's ship left when Cersei struck, and I doubt that Cersei even without knowing Ned's plan to evacuate his children would wait a couple hours after Robert's death before solidifying her control knowing that Ned knew about the twincest.

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

And Sansa. SHE deserves the niave label much more than Ned but he seems to get blamed for the whole world bends to Cersei's insane plot.

I wonder if people just don't realize how lucky Cersei was. Her plan relied on Robert getting drunk enough to get gored by a boar. Not only that but the injury would have to be very serious and that Barristan or any of the other men accompanying Robert wouldn't be able to intervene before he was hurt.

Cersei also had to bank on Ned not conspiring with Renly...hell if Littlefinger had actually followed through on his word then Ned would have succeeded.

[Lord_Tyrell]

Its not that Ned was stupid. Its that the world around him was so corrupt. Some of us confuse a character's lack of moral compass as evidence of them being smart. Littlefinger isn't exceptionally smart, just wise enough to fly under the radar. The moment the world learns not to take his word for anything, his BRAINS become useless. That doesn't make Ned dumb, it just makes him predictable. Thats his biggest flaw, predictability. You know how he'll react to almost anything.

I'd say LF is certainly exceptionally intelligent. He's not wise, the exact opposite really, but few characters in the series are more crafty and intelligent than him.

[Dagon]

That he loved too much.

[The Fresh PtwP]

He was more naive than Sansa, thinking everyone plays by honorable and just rules?!?! Welcome to KL idiot! Don't lose your head

[Queen of Whores]

His only actual mistake was thinking Littlefinger wouldn't mind having Stannis as king.

[Florina Laufeyson]

He ain't hot.

Slander and lies. ;)

It really bothers me when people see honor as a undesirable trait. Like...really really bothers me. I think honor was Ned's most triumphant trait. I wish more people were honorable. Honor is the new sexy.

I know this is meant as a joke, but I think it's actually exemplary of what I think is wrong about the way Ned's actions are thought about a lot of the time.

He's really not honorable in the extreme. He cares about honor, certainly, but when we look at the most important actions of his life, honor doesn't drive his decision as much as love and compassion. Raising Jon and keeping his promise to Lyanna requires not only that he fail to do the strictly 'honorable' thing by concealing the heir to the Targaryen dynasty from his friend and supported claimant to the IT, Robert, but also that he dishonor himself by acknowledging a bastard that he didn't actually father. When he informs Cersei that he knows about the twincest he is operating under no honor-based imperative, in fact honor would dictate that he immediately arrest and execute Cersei and her abominations. Lastly he chooses to dishonor himself by publicly recanting his allegations against Joffrey and avowing himself a traitor.

So honor registers as a concern with him, to be certain, but when it comes down to a conflict between his loved ones (or trying to avoid child murder), Ned chooses love over honor. Interestingly to me, in that last instance, it seems that if he had chosen honor over love he may have made it out of King's Landing alive. The Lannisters were not planning on executing him, and only dragged him out of the dungeon to 'confess his crimes,' but if he had held out for honor a bit longer, Robb would have captured Jaime Lannister and they may have been exchanged. If he had been a bit more honorable, he might have lived.

:thumbsup:

[King Brandon Ice Eyes]

I know this is meant as a joke, but I think it's actually exemplary of what I think is wrong about the way Ned's actions are thought about a lot of the time.

He's really not honorable in the extreme. He cares about honor, certainly, but when we look at the most important actions of his life, honor doesn't drive his decision as much as love and compassion. Raising Jon and keeping his promise to Lyanna requires not only that he fail to do the strictly 'honorable' thing by concealing the heir to the Targaryen dynasty from his friend and supported claimant to the IT, Robert, but also that he dishonor himself by acknowledging a bastard that he didn't actually father. When he informs Cersei that he knows about the twincest he is operating under no honor-based imperative, in fact honor would dictate that he immediately arrest and execute Cersei and her abominations. Lastly he chooses to dishonor himself by publicly recanting his allegations against Joffrey and avowing himself a traitor.

So honor registers as a concern with him, to be certain, but when it comes down to a conflict between his loved ones (or trying to avoid child murder), Ned chooses love over honor. Interestingly to me, in that last instance, it seems that if he had chosen honor over love he may have made it out of King's Landing alive. The Lannisters were not planning on executing him, and only dragged him out of the dungeon to 'confess his crimes,' but if he had held out for honor a bit longer, Robb would have captured Jaime Lannister and they may have been exchanged. If he had been a bit more honorable, he might have lived.

Excellent points. Ned always tried to do what he thinks it's rights. Whether it fits the prevalent westerosi idea of honor or not. Of course he doesn't escape the prejudices of his setting but then nobody does. His idea of honor and honesty are much more flexible and smart than people give him credit. If he thinks the honorable thing to do will bring more suffering than good he gets conflicted and it's likely he will take an alternative path.