Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Obnoxious? Seriously? There was absolutely nothing obnoxious about Sansa's "behaviour". Even if she was obnoxious or bitchy (chose whatever word you like) I wouldn't care. Heck if she killed him I still wouldn't mind at all. He should be glad that Sansa is too compassionate to kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Locust Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Gentlemen, take your seats and grab the popcorn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 About the kneeling, somehow, I think only the first part of the ceremony was quoted before. 3 paragraphs further down, and you get this: When Sansa turned, the little man was gazing up at her, his mouth tight, his face as red as her cloak. Suddenly she was ashamed of her stubbornness. She smoothed her skirts and knelt in front of him, so their heads were on the same level. So she ends up kneeling, and does so because, even in this state, she feels ashamed that she was taking it out on his disability. You don't do that when you dislike/ hate the person. I too found Sansa's behavior towards Tyrion to be rather obnoxious, but at the same time I understand where she is coming from and I do not hold it against her. Refusing to kneel for Tyrion at the wedding ceremony was her only way of showing defiance towards the wedding, and it is the first time we really see her take agency with her actions, small and futile though they may be.I'm not really sure what was "obnoxious" about it. She was polite, but distant. I have to wonder, should Jaime have become BFFs with Robb or something? Gone to Cat for comfort? Opened up and told the Blackfish all his woes and wishes for the future? Thanked the Tullys for whatever small joy they might have allowed him whenever the opportunity to do so emerged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos Targaryen Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 OH, this again... Last week I saw only one post "she had to widen her legs and let Tyrion have her" I was wondering where the spring madness will start... I totally agree with OP. What a bitch!!! I mean, she is forced to marry an enemy and she is being unkind. He hypocritically organizes a wedding and then "offer" her the way out and that bitch does not kneel and voluntarily surrender to her. Tyrion who never actually makes any sacrifice because of Sansa deserve her compassion, love, and yeah, her vagina. Can you just imagine how much of character development we would have seen if she was the good girl (for instance such as Arya) and slept with him? I mean, the guy deserves Medal of Honor. After all, it is a rare thing not to rape 12 year-old child. Then, that bitch finds the solace when her family is finally finished, not giving Tyrion (who, btw, is a member of the family who slaughtered hers) chance to console her. And let me not start with the fact that the ungrateful Sansa actually ran away from the kind, gentle soul Tyrion was, who never in the books admitted himself that he lusts for her (oh sorry, he did that). I mean, she is the worst... IDK whether you have read the books, but that never happened in them... "OK, I understand her being physically repulsed by him and not wanting to have sex with him, but aside from that" I wrote in the OP, and still I see shit like this. I never said Sansa should have left Tyrion rape her, why do people keep saying that? And yeah, he lusted after her. He never acted upon that lust though, so why the hell is that used against him? By the way, the amount of words you put in my mouth is of troll-like proportions. "Tyrion who never actually makes any sacrifice because of Sansa deserve her compassion, love, and yeah, her vagina." Really, this is damn bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myhousigilisthehousecat Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 A lot of it is a matter of timing too. When she got married to Tyrion, she knew that she would be attempting to escape during Joffrey's wedding very shortly after. She was about to escape and never see him again, so why bother getting to know him? It would have been different if she truly believed that she was stuck with him for the rest of her life. She doesn't really hate him, she's just distrustful and guarded (with good reason). Now that she is learning the finer points of politics, she seems to be thinking better of him, even when LF tries to sway her opinion of him. I'd really like to see them gang up on Littlefinger together because they both got screwed over by him in a big way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bronn Stokeworth Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 OK, I understand her being physically repulsed by him and not wanting to have sex with him, but aside from that, (1) why does she dislike and mistrust Tyrion so damn much? Throughout ACOK and ASOS she never seems to consider Tyrion as an ally, writing him off as just another Lannister who wants to harm her. (2) During the wedding she refuses to kneel for him in order to humiliate him, all her thoughts about him consist of him being an ugly Lannister dwarf and nothing more, etc. (3) Considering that it is completely clear that Tyrion does not belong on the same category as Joffrey, why does Sansa see him this way? (4) He risked Joffrey's wrath and punishment when he chastised him for having Sansa beaten, which there's NO WAY he would have done if he was Joffrey's/Cersei's patsy, constantly bad mouths and mocks Joffrey and Cersei in front of Sansa, and offers Sansa protection multiple times. Plus, he actually used his authority as Hand of the King to end Sansa's beatings. (5) Yet she refuses to see that he in fact wants to help her, and that (6) he hates Joffrey's and Cersei's guts as much as her. How can she believe all that when Tyrion is obviously trying to help her? Hell, the way her POVs are written, she doesn't even seem to realize that Tyrion is actually risking his life to help her. 1. Tyrion is a Lannister. The Lannisters are fighting a war against her family. Thus, he is her enemy. Being the "nice one" doesn't change this. Not trusting your captor because they show some semblance of kindness is a good thing. It means you're not falling to Stockholm Syndrome. 2. That's not what happened at all. She refused to kneel as an act of defiance against the Lannisters. Remember what the wedding was about. It was a symbol of the Lannisters total domination of the Starks. It was Tywin's magnum opus. The complete destruction of and take over of an ancient and powerful House. Why the fuck should Sansa bow for that? She may not be able to change her fate, but she has no reason to go meekly. It sucked that the side effect was Tyrion's humiliation. But she has no obligation to set aside her feelings for his. 3. Nicer than Joffery doesn't mean he's not enemy. Just look at their preferred outcomes for the war. Sansa wanted Robb to win. Tyrion wanted Robb to lose. She'd be an idiot if she started thinking they were on the same side. 4. Good for him. It doesn't make him her friend. It means he has some semblance of humanity. It doesn't change the fact that he was one of her captors and worked against her brother. He might bad mouth Cersei and Joffery, but he's still actively aiding them. 5. Why should she trust an enemy? It's not like she can read his mind. And as much as she has been betrayed, it'd be foolish to trust him without any real evidence that he is trust worthy. Some action that he is actually, undeniably opposed to the Lannisters. Which never happened, because despite his hate of Joffery and Cersei, he never did that actually harmed the Lannister cause. 6. Actually, I disagree with this. Joffery and Cersei betrayed her and her loving father murdered. It's a big difference than "my families are assholes." Post-SoS, he hates them as much or more, but obviously Sansa doesn't know future Tyrion thoughts. EDIT: 7. Let's not forget, that for all the "isn't clear he was just trying to help her" you kept saying, he did send men to break out Jamie out of his captivity. Jaimie, who was the only reason Joffery didn't execute Sansa. I don't blame him. Jaimie was his brother and main concern. But the truth is, Tyrion didn't give a shit about Sansa beyond something could happen to Jaimie if she died and later as his dream wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Rod Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I always cheer whenever I come to that part. The Starks do not kneel (Torrhen doesn't count) :cool4: This, this, so much this. A Stark never bends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos Targaryen Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 This, this, so much this. A Stark never bends. OK, I can totally see this if you interpret the scene that way. And I agree. I just think that the way her POV is written in that scene it seems like she just does it to spite Tyrion, not the Lannisters and to stand up for the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 OK, I can totally see this if you interpret the scene that way. I just think that the way her POV is written in that scene it seems like she just does it to spite Tyrion, not the Lannisters and to stand up for the Starks. We know she doesn't do it to humiliate him, because 3 paragraphs down she feels ashamed that her rebellion was targeting his disability, which isn't what she's truly rebelling against, and kneels for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExileOnDaytonStreet Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 This is a frustrating topic. What's not to get about her dislike for Tyrion? She may not have ever considered Tyrion to be in league with Cersei and Joffrey, but I don't think she ever felt like she had reason to trust him. She was a Lannister prisoner and Tyrion is a Lannister (even if he's the kindest of them). What more is there to get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Goat Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Oh boy this again. Sansa doesn't dislike him, on the contrary she well aware he is relatively friendly to her and she is thankful for it. In her second last chapter of ASOS she thinks to herself he was kind. She simply doesn't trust him, because he is a lannister and despite his dislike for his family he is loyal to his family and because of that she is wary of him and rightly so. This. This so much. I have yet to see any indication that Sansa hates Tyrion, though she certainly never liked him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Personally I don't get why Tyrion's deeds towards Sansa are praised so much. I mean Kevan also stood up for her once, Myrcella and Tommen are bunch of sweethearts to Sansa and they don't get this amount of praise. I. don't. get. this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myhousigilisthehousecat Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 OK, I can totally see this if you interpret the scene that way. And I agree. I just think that the way her POV is written in that scene it seems like she just does it to spite Tyrion, not the Lannisters and to stand up for the Starks. It wasn't really spite, nor an anti Lannister statement, maybe a humble effort of self-respect and pride? When she refuses to kneel, she's thinking about herself and what she dreamed of for her wedding, there's no hatred for Tyrion there. Then she sees him like five seconds later and she feels guilty about not kneeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Targdust Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Its like you think he should get some bonus points for not abusing her."Hey you arent beating me! I want to be your friend!"You arent supposed to abuse people, not doing it doesnt give you added personality points.Tyrion just didnt want to unneccessarily mistreat her, he wasnt trying to help her.If he was trying to help her he would have hatched a plan to free her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 1. Tyrion is a Lannister. The Lannisters are fighting a war against her family. Thus, he is her enemy. Being the "nice one" doesn't change this. Not trusting your captor because they show some semblance of kindness is a good thing. It means you're not falling to Stockholm Syndrome. 2. That's not what happened at all. She refused to kneel as an act of defiance against the Lannisters. Remember what the wedding was about. It was a symbol of the Lannisters total domination of the Starks. It was Tywin's magnum opus. The complete destruction of and take over of an ancient and powerful House. Why the fuck should Sansa bow for that? She may not be able to change her fate, but she has no reason to go meekly. It sucked that the side effect was Tyrion's humiliation. But she has no obligation to set aside her feelings for his. 3. Nicer than Joffery doesn't mean he's not enemy. Just look at their preferred outcomes for the war. Sansa wanted Robb to win. Tyrion wanted Robb to lose. She'd be an idiot if she started thinking they were on the same side. 4. Good for him. It doesn't make him her friend. It means he has some semblance of humanity. It doesn't change the fact that he was one of her captors and worked against her brother. He might bad mouth Cersei and Joffery, but he's still actively aiding them. 5. Why should she trust an enemy? It's not like she can read his mind. And as much as she has been betrayed, it'd be foolish to trust him without any real evidence that he is trust worthy. Some action that he is actually, undeniably opposed to the Lannisters. Which never happened, because despite his hate of Joffery and Cersei, he never did that actually harmed the Lannister cause. 6. Actually, I disagree with this. Joffery and Cersei betrayed her and her loving father murdered. It's a big difference than "my families are assholes." Post-SoS, he hates them as much or more, but obviously Sansa doesn't know future Tyrion thoughts. EDIT: 7. Let's not forget, that for all the "isn't clear he was just trying to help her" you kept saying, he did send men to break out Jamie out of his captivity. Jaimie, who was the only reason Joffery didn't execute Sansa. I don't blame him. Jaimie was his brother and main concern. But the truth is, Tyrion didn't give a shit about Sansa beyond something could happen to Jaimie if she died and later as his dream wife. Nice. Bonus points for staying with solid, logical reasons and not veering into the usual emotionalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Locust Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Poor, poor, poor Tyrion. His family was torn apart by the Starks and he was forced to marry the vile Sansa Stark, and was humiliated and abused by her family. And to make matters worse, all she wanted was his claim to Casterly Rock. On a serious note, the generally accepted reason for Sansa's disdain towards Tyrion is that she was forced to marry him, his family annihilated hers, he is repulsive and undesirable, and doesn't acknowledge her views on the matter. It's simple and has been said five-hundred times. I think the hate is mostly to do with the fact that she shares her ableist mother's prejudice against dwarves. Undoubtedly, Sansa will also kidnap him and start a war. Unless she's too busy thinking up new ways to torment her bastard brother she also hates.I do enjoy sarcasm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Personally I don't get why Tyrion's deeds towards Sansa are praised. I mean Kevan also stood up for her once, Myrcella and Tommen are bunch of sweethearts to Sansa and they don't get this amount of praise. I. don't. get. this. Well, it is fair to say that Tyrion was risking his reputation and life to protect her. Others were nice to her at points too, but Tyrion took some very big risks. It could easily have backfired (or it did, depending how you look at events). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Well, it is fair to say that Tyrion was risking his reputation and life to protect her. Others were nice to her at points too, but Tyrion took some very big risks. It could easily have backfired (or it did, depending how you look at events). Fair enough. Still it is kind of annoying to me that Tyrion is praised too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Targdust Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Well, it is fair to say that Tyrion was risking his reputation and life to protect her. Others were nice to her at points too, but Tyrion took some very big risks. It could easily have backfired (or it did, depending how you look at events).That wasnt the first time Tyrion stood up to Joff, i question how much of a risk it really was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 That wasnt the first time Tyrion stood up to Joff, i question how much of a risk it really was The best stood up to Joff moment for Tyrion has to be the one during the riot. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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