devilrob6 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Tyrion is part of a family that holds her hostage, killed fer father and several people in her family's household, is on the enemy side of the war and she's been forced to marry him. But apart from that i don't see no reasons why she would distrust him. Tyrion may be nicer to Sansa than the other Lannisters and he may dislike his familiy, but he's still her enemy and he supports Joffrey's reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Tyrion offered Sansa the choice to marry Lancel instead if she wished. A choice between two evils in Sansa's mind, I know, but she had a choice too. He didn't choose her because he is a power-hungry bastard. Sansa didn't have choice. She would marry Tyrion no matter what. Cersei told her if she refused she would be beaten black and blue, but she would still be married off to Tyrion. The only reason why he said such was because he wanted to quench his guilt not for Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Tyrion offered Sansa the choice to marry Lancel instead if she wished. A choice between two evils in Sansa's mind, I know, but she had a choice too. He didn't choose her because he is a power-hungry bastard. He was willing to let her marry Lancel instead if it made her more happy. He offered that choice after Cersei and Joffrey had already threatened her with a beating if she didn't marry Tyrion, thus it is hardly like she could believe it is an actual choice. Moreover, she doesn't want to marry either Tyrion or Lancel thus she would still have been forced into marriage. Finally, her picking him over Lancel shows she doesn't hate and recognizes his efforts even if she still doesn't really like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickeen Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The Sun of Dorne is right; he offered her that to satisfy his own guilt. He enjoys his self-pity. Sansa had no choice, why should she be happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Her reasons for disliking him seem pretty obvious...he's a Lannister, he married her against his will, that's nice that he attempted to absolve his conscience to tell her she can marry Lancel, but he still marries her and fully intends to get her w/child until at the last minute he can't stomach it, he ensured her continued captivity by helping the Lannisters win the battle of the blackwater...the fact that he has been nicer to her than the rest of his murderous family that held her hostage and also hates Joff isn't much of a reason not to dislike him. Now, if Sansa was really a 'player' she may have used his attraction for her and his need to be loved as a weapon against him and attempted to help herself or somehow empower herself, instead of doing what she did, shutting down, going through the motions of courtesy and being a 'good girl' drifting along with the tide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Besides Tyrion's "kindness" towards Sansa isn't that special imo. Both Kevan and Lancel were also kind-ish to her in asos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleRickon Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 OP, I get where you are coming from. The way the story is written, where we are witness to both parties private thoughts, there is an element of tragedy and missed opportunity there that makes us cringe a bit, should make us cringe a bit. If circumstances were different, those two could connect and share some sympathy for each other. If the writing were of less quality, that might have very well happened. But in this work, Sansa acts out of Sansa's perspective, desires and feelings, and there simply is no reason at all for her to like any Lannister, or trust them. She doesn't owe him anything. Even so she fully well realizes there is some good in him and articulates that thoughts repeatedly. I think that is already a very good sign of her golden heart. I think by asking ourselves why she doesn't like him more we are walking the path that GRRM has laid out in the books, and I think by walking that and putting us in her perspective we can find all the answers right there in the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Besides Tyrion's "kindness" towards Sansa isn't that special imo. Both Kevan and Lancel were also kindish to her in asos. Honestly, a lot of his kindness is that he isn't an idiotic psychopath like either Joffrey or Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Honestly, a lot of his kindness is that he isn't an idiotic psychopath like either Joffrey or Cersei. Yep he still used her trying to lay claim to Winterfell, and he never even gave her back to her mother like he said he would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Honestly, a lot of his kindness is that he isn't an idiotic psychopath like either Joffrey or Cersei. LOL, good point, especially about his previously saving Sansa from Joff....it doesn't take a genius to know that it's bad policy to humiliate your future queen and mother of your children. Only dumbasses such as Joff and Cersei would fail to see this as a blunder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Why is it that so many people think there must be something wrong with Sansa because she didn't develop a Stockholm Syndrome towards Tyrion and declare him the greatest guy in the world and her BFF? What dislike? She never disliked him. She disliked being forced to marry him and the thought of having to have sex with him, found him physically repulsive and didn't feel romantically drawn to him, but she never hated him (unlike Joffrey and Cersei), appreciated his relative kindness when he stopped Joffrey from beating her, and even included him on her list of people whose safety she prayed for during the Blackwater battle. She even thought afterward that he was "kind" for not raping her on their wedding night. Yes, she didn't trust him. Why should she have? In ACOK, she thinks to herself that she would never make the same mistake and trust a Lannister who appears to be nice to her - a mistake she made with Joffrey and Cersei. Tyrion was one of her captors. Although he was nicer to her than the rest of them, he was still supporting his family's interests and trying to keep the Lannisters in power, and he married her against her will as a part of a blatant attempt to steal her family's inheritance. What would he have done if she had trusted him and told him that she was trying to escape from King's Landing? Does anyone think he would have helped her, or let her escape? Hell no, certainly not while Jaime was still a prisoner. When Sansa was attacked by the mob, Tyrion was primarily concerned for her safety because of what it meant for Jaime's survival, not so much because of Sansa herself. Tyrion didn't have Sansa's interests at the forefront of his mind, and his own interests did not align with hers. If he had tried to get her away from Tywin, Joffrey and Cersei, then she would have a reason to trust him. But he did not, and furthermore, he was hoping and fantasizing she would change her mind and decide to come to his bed willingly. I can't judge him too harshly for being selfish and insecure to the point of being frustrated that a 12-year old hostage didn't want him, he was just being human and flawed, but the fact is that his main concern was how he felt about it, rather than what would be good for her, and it's mind-boggling that so many people seem to think that Sansa had a responsibility or duty to make Tyrion feel good about himself. And Tyrion wasn't forced to marry her. He could have said no, like Jaime did later when Tywin tried to make him leave KG. Tywin may have told him "You are not my son", but Tyrion didn't risk being harmed. He was reluctant, but eventually went along with it, partly because of the temptation of Winterfell, partly because he was having a problem making a real stand against Tywin. But the fact that he wasn't able to say no to his father is a reason more why Sansa did the right thing by not trusting Tyrion. The reason why Tyrion seems to nice and kind is because we are comparing him to horrible people like Joffrey and Cersei, so even the basic minimal human decency of "I don't want to rape or beat up this 12-year old girl" seems like an example of incredible kindness and heroism. Which it actually isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If you had to marry against your will someone with Tyrion's terrible personality, hideous looks and million issues with the opposite gender, how would you feel about it? Even without getting into "his family murdered most of yours" territory, it's obvious how nearly everyone would react, and for good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I do get the feeling that the main reason Sansa disliked Tyrion is because she was so repulsed by him, rather than because he was a Lannister.But maybe I'm being a bit harsh on her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fangirl000 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Loyal to his family? He constantly fantasizes about killing Cersei, actually killed Tywin, considers Joffrey completely worthless etc. He hates the Lannisters, he only helps them in order to survive and because he cares for Jamie. Also, because no other side in the war would trust him, so he can't just defect. The key word there is "fantasizes." Sansa isn't in Tyrion's head, to know what he really thinks about his family. Outwardly, Tyrion acts to protect and serve the Lannister family interests, just like the rest of the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Do you get Tyrion's dislike for Lollys or Penny? They are kind too, and they don't even belong to a family who killed all the people dear to Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I do get the feeling that the main reason Sansa disliked Tyrion is because she was so repulsed by him, rather than because he was a Lannister.But maybe I'm being a bit harsh on her. Except she doesn't dislike him. She thinks to herself he is kind and that's it. Yes she is in a way repulsed by him, but what is your point with that? Tyrion himself is also repulsed by Lolly and nobody seems to care about that. God forbid that Sansa isn't attracted to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Except she doesn't dislike him. She thinks to herself he is kind and that's it. Yes she is in a way repulsed by him, but what is your point with that? Tyrion himself is also repulsed by Lolly and nobody seems to care about that. God forbid that Sansa isn't attracted to him. Agreed, people just keep calling Sansa out for being shallow when she really isn't (post-AGoT) : her dynamic with Sandor proves that imo. Tyrion, otoh, is one of the most shallow characters in the books: he thinks of every woman who doesn't want him superficial, yet completely rejects/dismisses unattractive characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Loyal to his family? He constantly fantasizes about killing Cersei, actually killed Tywin, considers Joffrey completely worthless etc. He hates the Lannisters, he only helps them in order to survive and because he cares for Jamie. Also, because no other side in the war would trust him, so he can't just defect. I don't think that Sansa can read his mind to be able to know that. For all she knew he was loyal to his family. Anyway I don't think that she dislike him personaly. She thinks that he was kind not to consummate the marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelindis Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Why is it that so many people think there must be something wrong with Sansa because she didn't develop a Stockholm Syndrome towards Tyrion and declare him the greatest guy in the world and her BFF? <snip> Yes, she didn't trust him. Why should she have? In ACOK, she thinks to herself that she would never make the same mistake and trust a Lannister who appears to be nice to her - a mistake she made with Joffrey and Cersei. Not quoting the whole post for the sake of length, but I agree with everything you said. Your post has left me with nothing to add to the argument. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. frontalis chiripepe Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I don't think Sansa hates Tyrion, but she's a 14 year old girl and she associates Tyrion's family with the death of her father, and the basic ruin of her life. In the last episodes of Season 3, before Sansa was informed of the death of her brother and mother, Tyrion and Sansa seemed to be getting along splendidly, even making jokes with each other and planning to put dead animals in people's beds. That kind of jovial banter ended after The Red Wedding, and Sansa is obviously now not in the mood to be friendly with anyone, but I don't think she has a personal dislike for Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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