Jump to content

As to the Adaptation, am I the only one...


tolthar

Recommended Posts

Hmm...where are all the 'Stannis character assassination' replies? :P



I agree, the show has done a great job at bringing the story to life.



My main problems are-


  • One of my favourite parts about the books are the Direwolves and the bond they share with the Stark kids ( e.g. GreyWind going down like a badass and Jon and Ghost being inseparable). However, they're merely just pets in the show and don't get the attention they deserve.
  • Too many pointless sex scenes just to stick to the nudity rule (boobs in every episode) which takes away from other scenes they could be doing.
  • I still insist that the Jeyne Westerling plot was better than Talisa- Robb was too honourable and naive like his father rather than 'she's hot, I'll marry her and my feelings come first.'
  • The main character of 'Team Dragonstone' is Melisandre and Stannis is just her puppet.

That being said, these things don't ruin the show and the adaptation is great to watch.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who thinks adaptation of this series in the strictest sense of the word has been brilliant so far?

It too would stop short of brilliant.

The amazing thing is (like the dancing bear) that Dave and Dan have taken a behemoth of a story and done something good with it as visual drama.

I sometimes despair that the 12 (or more) episode format has bitten the dust, I frankly that with HBO could bring on the resources to do 12... yes, yes, I know D&D say there not enough hours in the year, and I think for them and Bryan that is true, but that tell me they are not willing to delegate work for their baby to added competent hands.

Alas, that ship has sailed.

Every now and then they seem to bungle a sequence, but more often than not, the next sequence will be brilliantly written with Jim Krack dialog!

To wit, one could see how much fun they had writing Arya and the Hound's dust up at the tavern, even tho GRRM gave them the cake to work with.

I only think they crashed and burned once, episodes 3-8 for Dany in season 2. I felt episodes 1, 2 and 10 worked that season, but I might blame George ... Qarth worked on the page... notice George R. R. Martin wrote not one single Qarth scene for season 2 ... I know he had Blackwater... still would like to know if he had anything to say about the problems.

Elsewise I keep the books and the show separate in my mind as far as criticism goes.

Not that that will keep me from commentary about the adaptation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love the books, I love the show. It's only when I stop to nitpick, that I like the show less so. It's still amazing what they have done so far and how pretty much everything (apart from some details - I agree that time showing more skin could be spent otherwise) is faithful to the story. I hope they continue like this, and tell the story to its end. I'll still be watching, anyway :)


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ref: Bolded, each to their own.

At least the torture served a purpose. Pod getting his jollies did not.

Exactly, I wasn't arguing it about, just giving my opinion on it. I just thought it was interesting that we each had the differing views on the two selected scenes, iirc.

ETA; Actually, I do think the sex scenes with Pod served a bit of purpose. Just like many of the younger characters, he is aged up a bit and the idea of him not paying for it in the end shows something about the quiet young man (if not stammering young man) being very good at physical things, and being liked once people get to know him a little bit. I do think that was kind of the point of the scene. The quiet guy who is surprisingly adept at some physicality but not at talking, they just added the sex to the squiring. Plus, it showed more of his general likeability.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly, I wasn't arguing it about, just giving my opinion on it. I just thought it was interesting that we each had the differing views on the two selected scenes, iirc.

ETA; Actually, I do think the sex scenes with Pod served a bit of purpose. Just like many of the younger characters, he is aged up a bit and the idea of him not paying for it in the end shows something about the quiet young man (if not stammering young man) being very good at physical things, and being liked once people get to know him a little bit. I do think that was kind of the point of the scene. The quiet guy who is surprisingly adept at some physicality but not at talking, they just added the sex to the squiring. Plus, it showed more of his general likeability.

Those whores going at it for free is more fantasy than the dragons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly, I wasn't arguing it about, just giving my opinion on it. I just thought it was interesting that we each had the differing views on the two selected scenes, iirc.

ETA; Actually, I do think the sex scenes with Pod served a bit of purpose. Just like many of the younger characters, he is aged up a bit and the idea of him not paying for it in the end shows something about the quiet young man (if not stammering young man) being very good at physical things, and being liked once people get to know him a little bit. I do think that was kind of the point of the scene. The quiet guy who is surprisingly adept at some physicality but not at talking, they just added the sex to the squiring. Plus, it showed more of his general likeability.

Imagine if they had spent any of that kind of effort of developing what was happening beyond the wall, instead of inconsequential character development on a minor character. It added nothing of value.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you can see the reason behind most or all of the changes and understand why it's compelling, over all, in the adaptation.



For example, I think it's very likely that the Crackclaw point expedition will be dropped. Without it, we need some other way to get Brienne and Podrick as established as necessary. Pod ends up getting known for sexual prowess, which is of course noncanon, but it's SOMETHING so we know who he is when we need to later. It's not hard to imagine that Jaime gives her oathbreaker and gets her ready to "steal" Sansa to bring her to the Eyrie...the best Jaime can do to keep his oath. But then Sansa disappears and Brienne's quest goes on down the needed path.



Jaime's back in KL "too soon." Yep. But we need to see the character development that readers get in part while he's traipsing about in the Riverlands winding down the last conflicts, and I doubt we will get all of that in the show, with which I agree. So we get some scenes in KL, including with Tywin, where he can have some scenes to express where he is and take some additional "fuel" for changes. And if that puts some of the most popular and powerful actors in "noncanon" scenes, but makes the show more entertaining, then that's a good choice as an adaptor.



Arya kills the wrong brigand the wrong way or in the wrong place. Sure. But do we see her develop as needed? Does she recover Needle? Are they done in a way that doesn't devote excess scarce time to it while being visually and emotionally effective? All yes, IMO. So that's good adaptation.



Is there "excess" gratuitous nudity or violence? Is that redundant? All in the eye of the beholder, and I will suggest there are probably some viewers who really care about the nudity. I didn't "enjoy" the Theon torture (I don't think you're meant to) but I didn't think it was "excessive" in the sense that the show has to SHOW (not tell) us how his personality can transform so radically, and IMO nearly incredibly...it generally takes nearly incredible actions to generate nearly incredible results.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those whores going at it for free is more fantasy than the dragons.

I'm just saying that out of all the stupid extra sex, this scene actually doesn't bother me. I kinda like it. And, I like the idea of Littlefinger too busy spying on Ros spying on him instead of counting his coins. I'd take Precious Pod's sex scenes over half the other crap they've shoved down our throats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Imagine if they had spent any of that kind of effort of developing what was happening beyond the wall, instead of inconsequential character development on a minor character. It added nothing of value.

What they needed to fix was the actual crap they wrote for beyond the wall. That would have been a place to start.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The writers clearly take shortcuts to get to the same place. They are about where they should be in the books. Except I'm wondering about the Hound not appearing injured at all after the tavern fight in episode 1. It's about time for him and Arya to separate. I'm wondering how that's going to happen. I also hope they don't make them show any kind of (non-sexual, of course) affection for each other. One of my favorite scenes in the book was the way Arya coldly walked away from the hound after he got sick.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is there "excess" gratuitous nudity or violence? Is that redundant? All in the eye of the beholder, and I will suggest there are probably some viewers who really care about the nudity.

And do those viewers care about the complex characters? The political plotlines? The moral ambiguity? I doubt it and I don't think that D+D should be targeting the show at those people. I think the majority of people would rather the show just got on with the story. If that story logically ends up in a brothel then I'm sure most people can appreciate a side-dish of fanservice, but side-dishes are just that. They need a main meal (aka plot) to go with them.

I feel like I use food metaphors too much when talking about narrative, but the point stands.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The concern is in the fact the hound is meant to walk away from that fight with a mortal wound am I not correct.

I think we're going to see the Hound actually fight in the Sack of Saltpans, with Rorge taking his helm from him directly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we're going to see the Hound actually fight in the Sack of Saltpans, with Rorge taking his helm from him directly.

Ah ha, this brings up a question I had with my last rewatch of the episode. When is the last time we've actually seen his damn Hound helm?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you can see the reason behind most or all of the changes and understand why it's compelling, over all, in the adaptation.

For example, I think it's very likely that the Crackclaw point expedition will be dropped. Without it, we need some other way to get Brienne and Podrick as established as necessary. Pod ends up getting known for sexual prowess, which is of course noncanon, but it's SOMETHING so we know who he is when we need to later. It's not hard to imagine that Jaime gives her oathbreaker and gets her ready to "steal" Sansa to bring her to the Eyrie...the best Jaime can do to keep his oath. But then Sansa disappears and Brienne's quest goes on down the needed path.

Jaime's back in KL "too soon." Yep. But we need to see the character development that readers get in part while he's traipsing about in the Riverlands winding down the last conflicts, and I doubt we will get all of that in the show, with which I agree. So we get some scenes in KL, including with Tywin, where he can have some scenes to express where he is and take some additional "fuel" for changes. And if that puts some of the most popular and powerful actors in "noncanon" scenes, but makes the show more entertaining, then that's a good choice as an adaptor.

Arya kills the wrong brigand the wrong way or in the wrong place. Sure. But do we see her develop as needed? Does she recover Needle? Are they done in a way that doesn't devote excess scarce time to it while being visually and emotionally effective? All yes, IMO. So that's good adaptation.

Is there "excess" gratuitous nudity or violence? Is that redundant? All in the eye of the beholder, and I will suggest there are probably some viewers who really care about the nudity. I didn't "enjoy" the Theon torture (I don't think you're meant to) but I didn't think it was "excessive" in the sense that the show has to SHOW (not tell) us how his personality can transform so radically, and IMO nearly incredibly...it generally takes nearly incredible actions to generate nearly incredible results.

Crackclaw deletion - I said as much previously and was shouted down. Some see it as critical for some reason. I really felt it was filler as GRRM was trying to undo the Meereenese Knot.

Knowing Pod - so it could be:

A) Brienne "So Pod, ummmmm, you're that sex god then hey? Wink Wink Nudge Nudge" (Audience - oooo errrr, that's right, he's the sex god!)

B) Brienne "So Pod, you killed a Kingsguard?" Pod "Yes, he was going to kill Lord Tyrion" (Audiece - Ohhh that's right, he's the kid who saved Tyrion)

I'll take a serving of B), please, no anchovies.

Jaime in KL - It could have some problems but I am more than happy to see how it pans out.

Arya - I am actually very happy with how they have gone about it.

Theon - I agree with you. It was distasteful, but it was supposed to be. Did it go too far? I think not. He has far more skin and body parts still on his person than in the books. Having Reek magically appear would have been far too much of a WTF for the screen. The actual physical torture didn't really take up much time. The dialogue and mental torture had to be shown to make the breaking of Theon believable.

Nudity - The problem isn't really the nudity, it was the overuse of the brothel scenes that has caused the reaction. Pod's scene came at a time when many were just 'over it' and at a time when other stories were floundering.

What they needed to fix was the actual crap they wrote for beyond the wall. That would have been a place to start.

Agree 100%

But they are too busy planning the climax of Pod-the-Sex-God's super powers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think since Blackwater, which makes sense in that he's trying to keep a lowish profile.

I will have to look again but I don't think he had the 'Hound Helm' at Blackwater.

That damn helm looks only ceremonial not practical.

Why he, or many others, don't have some kind of actual battle helms is beyond my and George's understanding!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think it's "nudity" per se, it's overuse of nudity, as in long drawn out brothel scenes that serve no purpose, like the one with Ros and the other whore where LF is schooling them in how to fake the sex...that is a lot of wasted screen time..especially since we see LF and Varys constantly plotting and smack talking about their plotting. Or the infamous Pod scene that served no purpose. Or the pointless scene with Bronn and the whore before Pod comes to get him, it tells us nothing about anything. Or the worthless everyone spying on everyone in LF's brothel, again, really we get it, we already got it, about LF and about KL. Some of this is fine. But ALL of it, when there are a lot of storylines that use an extra minute here and there gets annoying.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a massive and wide-ranging book reader who has seen a lot of film and tv adaptations of all sorts of books: this is one of the most well done book-to-screen adaptations ever.

In absolute terms it doesn't match the books, but it's actually almost empirically impossible to make a screen version of anything else other than a short story that does the book version justice. I'd say the only other successes in that regard is the old black and white film version of To Kill a Mockingbird, and the 1990's BBC TV version of Pride and Prejudice. There are just too many differences between the two mediums for a one-to-one translation work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...