Good Guy Garlan Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I think the show gave us a pretty big hint of this treason, but it's not Missandei/Grey Worm: It's Tyrion. He's going to betray her for Jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Oh so that's why the forum suddenly jumped from Tyrion will be Dany's happy helper to Tyrion will betray Dany. Had me confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I'll be forced to leave the forums, apparently. The show started to spoil the books heavily, apparently. Everywhere I see people using the TV show (I don't watch it). Shouldn't it be forbidden here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Calthrop Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 My point is that good writers don't throw in subplots "for the hell of it," and they don't develop characters for the hell of it -- they develop characters for a reason: because their motivations are or will be important to the story. Deleted for spoiler content But Robb had a wife in the books. All the show did was change her name and backstory. It isn't comparable to the made up Missandei/Grey Worm relationship. Deleted for spoiler content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I think the treason for love will be Tyrion helping Jaime escape. I think Jaime will be captured in battle. Jaime would be imprisoned awaiting execution for regicide, like Tyrion was in ASoS, only for Tyrion to help him escape to pay back his debt to Jaime. I think they would have some closure and a hug, one last moment together as brothers. I think the treason for love might be something else but I definitely agree with Tyrion saving Jaime from execution. “Besides, kingslayers should band together.” Jaime tells this to Brienne, who is accused of slaying Renly but she is innocent just as Jaime knows. Tyrion is known as a kingslayer but he is innocent from slaying Joffrey. Later we see how Brienne and Jaime saved each other several times. So, Tyrion owes Jaime a saving. As for the OP, Misandei-Grey Worm thing is just a filler. They also needed to show us Missandei's teats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Maiden Fair Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I'll be forced to leave the forums, apparently. The show started to spoil the books heavily, apparently. Everywhere I see people using the TV show (I don't watch it). Shouldn't it be forbidden here?I think there is a rule that show-based discussions are meant to take place in the hbo section, to prevent show-based spoilers on the book threads, but for those that attend to both, I imagine the bleedover is hard to avoid. Sometimes I catch myself wondering if I'm remembering the book or tv versions of events when I'm trying to puzzle things out, and have to go check the wiki. n_n;ETA:http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/forum-20/announcement-67-rules-reminder-threads-touching-on-the-show/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I think there is a rule that show-based discussions are meant to take place in the hbo section, to prevent show-based spoilers on the book threads, but for those that attend to both, I imagine the bleedover is hard to avoid. Sometimes I catch myself wondering if I'm remembering the book or tv versions of events when I'm trying to puzzle things out, and have to go check the wiki. n_n;ETA:http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/forum-20/announcement-67-rules-reminder-threads-touching-on-the-show/ Yeah, me too. I'm not blaming anyone, though it would be nice if people made an effort to avoid spelling out the tv show spoilers. I have nothing against the HBO series, and I'll probably watch it after the books are done. But it's hard to separate things, I watched the first season and to this day I have trouble separating some stuff. So I decided to stop watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdoggy Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Maybe Dany gets framed for being the Harpy and Missandi betrays her because she belives it is true. On the show they could replace Marselen with Grey Worm to give her a reason to betray Dany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Maybe Dany gets framed for being the Harpy and Missandi betrays her because she belives it is true. On the show they could replace Marselen with Grey Worm to give her a reason to betray Dany Except no one is dumb enough to believe that. The Harpy targeted one of her own councilors, and her Unsullied, the bulk of her fighting force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Ok, this topic is strictly about the third of the "three treasons" she's prophesied to encounter. It's been anybody's guess in the past, but the show has given some pretty strong clues who the betrayer(s) might be. You have to wonder, considering how many significant scenes and characters have been truncated or omitted altogether from the adaptation, why are the producers devoting precious screen time to a budding romance between Gray Worm and Missendei? There's only one explanation: because it will eventually make an impact on the larger plot, and you can bet it will be a negative impact. Smart money says, one of them will betray Dany for the love of the other, or they may both betray Dany for the love of each other. It could be as simple as them eloping and leaving their important jobs vacant at a crucial moment, but I hope it's a bit more exciting than that. I expect the Unsullied will be used to further explore this theme in Dany's arc of her having freed slaves only for their circumstances to remain dire or worsen. The Unsullied are free by the true definition of the word no doubt, but in concept they remain similar to slaves because they don't know how to live free. As the Unsullied bear the brunt of the local dislike for Dany in Meereen, they may do so again in Westeros. But I expect it will come to a more pointed head than that. I think Dany will make a mistake, and in a fit of rage against her enemy will use the Unsullied in battle in an inhumane manner. A situation where there is nothing substantial to be gained from victory, probably just her pride, and at the cost many Unsullied lives. It plays into the central question of her arc, that is if she's mad or not? It will be the sort of order she wouldn't ever give a standard army because they'd simply desert, the sort of order one gives a slave army. Marselen/Grey Worm dies or lives and Missandei is broken hearted or sees the writing on the wall. Perhaps she'll be one of the three betrayals on her own, but the way her and Barristan's relationship sprung up in ADWD makes me think she will just go with him when he abandons Dany. Alternatively we see Pate had to betray his master before Jaqen would give him the gift and take his identity. The above may give Missandei cause to betray Dany, so that Arya will give her the gift and take her identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Calthrop Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I think there is a rule that show-based discussions are meant to take place in the hbo section, to prevent show-based spoilers on the book threads, but for those that attend to both, I imagine the bleedover is hard to avoid. Sometimes I catch myself wondering if I'm remembering the book or tv versions of events when I'm trying to puzzle things out, and have to go check the wiki. n_n;ETA:http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/forum-20/announcement-67-rules-reminder-threads-touching-on-the-show/ Yeah, me too. I'm not blaming anyone, though it would be nice if people made an effort to avoid spelling out the tv show spoilers. I have nothing against the HBO series, and I'll probably watch it after the books are done. But it's hard to separate things, I watched the first season and to this day I have trouble separating some stuff. So I decided to stop watching. Crap. Mea culpa - I lost track of the fact that I wasn't on the tv portion of the site. Seriously apologize about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I think it will be Tyrion, for his love of Jaime, who betrays Daenerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 You do realise that Missandei in the books is a little girl? I think the "purpose" of the romance between her and Grey Worm is to make two minor characters memorable and have them something to do besides standing next to Danny.Missandei is a child in the books, but she also said that one of the Unsullied was her brother. In the books it is probably her brother that is the reason for the betrayal, but the show merged her brother into Grey Worm's character. So different kind of love between books and show, but still a love betrayal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 think the Missandrei/ Grey Worm connection can serve on 2 levels:-Missandre's love for her brother now projected on GW- there's a passage in Dance that talks about how one or some of the Unsullied visit brothels, even though they're cut root and stem, just to be held. This passage shows they're still humans who have emotions and needs even if they're not able to fully exercise them. By having Unsullied seek out affection, it really highlights how much was taken from them and how wrong it is. Since TV is "see, not hear" we need to "see" this incredibly sad portion of their reality. Hearing about it isn't enough. Having Dany see people she cares about have affection for one another yet be unable to fully act on it highlights this and will hit home harder in the future than if we only "heard" about it. I do not think Missandrei or Grey Worm will be her betrayal for love since only possibly the relationship between Missandrei and her brother could compare. I don't see an event that would lead to Missandrei having to betray Dany for her brother unless he's taken by the Yunkai or something. I believe having Tyrion betray Dany for Jaime after earning her trust would be much more of a betrayal because Tyrion is going to have to earn her trust from the ground up. He's son of Tywin, an enemy if her house, and showing up with Jorah, not conditions that lend to easy trust for Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Well I strongly doubt Tyrion would betray Dany for Jamie personally. Tyrion is pretty mad about what Jamie did regarding Tysha and would not be likely to have the same relationship with his brother ever again. He doesn't hate Jamie like he does Cersei, but he is definitely less trusting. Tyrion might betray Dany for Tysha, if he saw her again. But no one else.My favorite candidate for this love betrayal is Barristan, if Ashara is alive. Why tell us about his love for Ashara otherwise?Next on the list is Daario. I have trouble believing he is genuinely in love, but he might be. If so, he might be quite bitter about her marriage, and might do something rash to win her back but fail.However I do think that Missandei/Grey Worm is another possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Well I strongly doubt Tyrion would betray Dany for Jamie personally. Tyrion is pretty mad about what Jamie did regarding Tysha and would not be likely to have the same relationship with his brother ever again. He doesn't hate Jamie like he does Cersei, but he is definitely less trusting. Tyrion might betray Dany for Tysha, if he saw her again. But no one else.It will be a while before they meet again, and remember how Tyrion treated other people. He saved Cat from a clansmen even though she kidnapped him, and saved Jorah from the fighting pits even though he kidnapped and abused Tyrion. Jaime, OTOH, is the only person in the world who truly loved Tyrion, and he saved his life. Tyrion could return the favor. My favorite candidate for this love betrayal is Barristan, if Ashara is alive. Why tell us about his love for Ashara otherwise? Ashara is nowhere near Meereen, and I think the only possible place where she could be is Greywater Watch. Besides, he would never violate his vow to Dany as he is famously honorable. However I do think that Missandei/Grey Worm is another possibility.I don't think Missandei has it in her to betray Dany while Grey Worm is completely loyal to her, and has no reason to betray her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Carmichael Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 It will be a while before they meet again, and remember how Tyrion treated other people. He saved Cat from a clansmen even though she kidnapped him, and saved Jorah from the fighting pits even though he kidnapped and abused Tyrion. Jaime, OTOH, is the only person in the world who truly loved Tyrion, and he saved his life. Tyrion could return the favor. Ashara is nowhere near Meereen, and I think the only possible place where she could be is Greywater Watch. Besides, he would never violate his vow to Dany as he is famously honorable. I don't think Missandei has it in her to betray Dany while Grey Worm is completely loyal to her, and ha sno reason to betra her. Oh, I don't know about that. It's sounds like he would have been open to keeping her as a mistress if he'd won at Harrenhal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForgottenKnight Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I think the show gave us a pretty big hint of this treason, but it's not Missandei/Grey Worm: It's Tyrion. He's going to betray her for Jaime Oh I never thought of that. That would be epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Dorne Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I believe it will be out of love for her dragons. I think Drogon will kill her. Or maybe she gets tricked into blowing the horn and thus kills herself in order to control her dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Oh, I don't know about that. It's sounds like he would have been open to keeping her as a mistress if he'd won at Harrenhal. Except Barristan wouldn't have betrayed his queen for anyone. He clings tightly to his vows to serve the king/queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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