Season 6 Casting, Sightings and Speculations

[protar]

All I am saying is, we will SEE what happens, but right now we simply don't know. I, for one, plan to reserve judgement until we DO know.

Yes, we'll see what happens. I'm happy to eat my words when TWOW comes out. But some possibilities are more likely than others. GRRM stagnating the status quo and repeating a plot line from the last book is a very unlikely outcome. You would not be arguing that possibility if you didn't need to think of some way to justify the changes D+D have made to the story. So please just take a step back and look at how absurd your suggestion is. We don't always need to wait and see. I'm pretty sure Tyrion isn't going to trip and break his neck in the first chapter of TWOW. Would you argue we need to wait and see before dismissing that possibility?

And no, it is untrue that they did not need to say anything. They knew the scene would be controversial. And it was possibly even more so than they thought. So no, they could not just say "no comment".

I think you've misunderstood. They made comments alluding to this scene years ago, all the way back in season 2 (for the life of me I can't find the original interview but everyone is bringing it up and I remember it myself). They said that there was a storyline with Ramsay that they loved, but a key character didn't exist in the show. So we can say with near complete certainty that they were referring to Jeyne's marriage to Ramsay and Sansa is the show's equivalent of that. We can pretty obviously infer that this isn't an actual plot of Sansa's in the book, it's an appropriation of a preexisting plot.

Incidentally they have pretty much gone "no comment" on the actual episode so far as I'm aware.

ETA: Anyway, this is really getting off topic. And I don't think there's much left to discuss anyway.

[Deadwood]

--

Random question for those who would know: If D&D, & Co. have a few different actors/actresses in mind for a specific role, would they still do general casting calls?

yes

[Hippocras]

yeah, it is OT, but what's new really for the casting threads? ;)

It is true I would never have assumed Sansa's story was going into this territory until the show did this, and thought the Sansa as fArya proposal was preposterous a few months ago when it was proposed. So in that sense yes, I am saying these things because the show has brought us to this point. That does not, however, mean that the show is doing it for no reason other than that D&D loved Theon's storyline. Loving the storyline does not stand in the way of it actually containing elements of Sansa's storyline as well that made it a logical move to make.

I think, frankly, that it is perfectly legit for them to be interested in Theon's (and Jeyne's) storyline and I am shocked the world seems to have less of a problem with raping and torturing Jeyne than Sansa. I doubt there would have been such an outcry if it was "only" Jeyne. I also think that D&D loving the storyline does not in any way mean they did this only for that reason.

For me the fact remains that the show and books arrive at the same endpoint, and GRRM reaffirmed that fact just last week, AFTER the controversial scene. Getting to the same endpoint to me seems impossible now if Sansa's book story does not get extremely dark and twisted and get her to the same place mentally and geographically as this Ramsay marriage gets her.

[Cas Stark]

yeah, it is OT, but what's new really for the casting threads? ;)

It is true I would never have assumed Sansa's story was going into this territory until the show did this, and thought the Sansa as fArya proposal was preposterous a few months ago when it was proposed. So in that sense yes, I am saying these things because the show has brought us to this point. That does not, however, mean that the show is doing it for no reason other than that D&D loved Theon's storyline. Loving the storyline does not stand in the way of it actually containing elements of Sansa's storyline as well that made it a logical move to make.

I think, frankly, that it is perfectly legit for them to be interested in Theon's (and Jeyne's) storyline and I am shocked the world seems to have less of a problem with raping and torturing Jeyne than Sansa. I doubt there would have been such an outcry if it was "only" Jeyne. I also think that D&D loving the storyline does not in any way mean they did this only for that reason.

For me the fact remains that the show and books arrive at the same endpoint, and GRRM reaffirmed that fact just last week, AFTER the controversial scene. Getting to the same endpoint to me seems impossible now if Sansa's book story does not get extremely dark and twisted and get her to the same place mentally and geographically as this Ramsay marriage gets her.

Why? They said exactly that. Creatively it made sense because we wanted it to happen. GRRM is not going to marry Sansa to Ramsay Bolton, that is absurd, and I believe you know that. She will probably end up in Winterfell some time after the Boltons are gone and defeated. They did it for the same reason they do a lot of dumb stuff with plots, they thought it would be cool and edgy.

It's also interesting that it seems we're going back to the riverlands next season, which makes it a shame they didn't put some riverlands in THIS YEAR to better anchor the show, perhaps if they had done that the show wouldn't be losing viewers.

[Hippocras]

Why? They said exactly that. Creatively it made sense because we wanted it to happen. GRRM is not going to marry Sansa to Ramsay Bolton, that is absurd, and I believe you know that. She will probably end up in Winterfell some time after the Boltons are gone and defeated. They did it for the same reason they do a lot of dumb stuff with plots, they thought it would be cool and edgy.

It's also interesting that it seems we're going back to the riverlands next season, which makes it a shame they didn't put some riverlands in THIS YEAR to better anchor the show, perhaps if they had done that the show wouldn't be losing viewers.

As already stated, They can't say otherwise.

If their reasons have to do in part with unpublished material from the books they simply cannot talk about it yet obviously. Sansa has a WoW storyline we don't know anything about and they can't be the ones to tell us.

[Cas Stark]

As already stated, They can't say otherwise.

If their reasons have to do in part with unpublished material from the books they simply cannot talk about it yet obviously. Sansa has a WoW storyline we don't know anything about and they can't be the ones to tell us.

Sure they can. They're already injecting spoilers into the show. They have come very close to outright saying we did it because we thought it would be cool, we wanted to put these characters together.

We know Selmy will die before he gets to Westeros, because, he's dead in the show. We know that greyscale is going to play a role in Westeros because Jorah Mormont has it now. Spoilers abound on the show. We saw the nights king and will see him again.

So, I really don't know what you are talking about when you try to say that Sansa marrying Ramsay could happen in the books but they "can't tell us" because of course they can, but they have told us the opposite.

[protar]

yeah, it is OT, but what's new really for the casting threads? ;)

It is true I would never have assumed Sansa's story was going into this territory until the show did this, and thought the Sansa as fArya proposal was preposterous a few months ago when it was proposed. So in that sense yes, I am saying these things because the show has brought us to this point. That does not, however, mean that the show is doing it for no reason other than that D&D loved Theon's storyline. Loving the storyline does not stand in the way of it actually containing elements of Sansa's storyline as well that made it a logical move to make.

I think, frankly, that it is perfectly legit for them to be interested in Theon's (and Jeyne's) storyline and I am shocked the world seems to have less of a problem with raping and torturing Jeyne than Sansa. I doubt there would have been such an outcry if it was "only" Jeyne. I also think that D&D loving the storyline does not in any way mean they did this only for that reason.

For me the fact remains that the show and books arrive at the same endpoint, and GRRM reaffirmed that fact just last week, AFTER the controversial scene. Getting to the same endpoint to me seems impossible now if Sansa's book story does not get extremely dark and twisted and get her to the same place mentally and geographically as this Ramsay marriage gets her.

I think Sansa will end up in the North in TWOW and that the change D+D have made gets her there a bit earlier. But that's it. I do not think D+D are going to handle the psychological trauma of being raped very well at all. They're already flip flopping and trying to make Sansa all strong and empowered by...having her call Ramsay a bastard to his face? Picking up a corkscrew? There's clearly no plan for Sansa's characterisation here and their handling of trauma from abuse has already been tactless.

As for why people are outraged at this change but were fine with Jeyne's storyline in the books? Well there's been plenty of discussion on that. I find it hard to believe that you haven't seen people's arguments so it seems very disingenuous to claim that you're shocked about that. Characters aren't interchangeable; Sansa's character arc and indeed all logic had to be destroyed to get her to Winterfell. The fact that they went out of their way to include this rape scene, while other far more important plots, events and characters lie on the cutting room floor is disgusting quite frankly.

Also, I don't believe for a second that the books and the show will actually end up with the same endings, outside of broad similarities. D+D claim they will, but D+D also claim that S5 is mostly sticking with the books and that S6 will be where it starts to deviate. Clearly their idea of sticking to the books is very different from most people's. We'll get the very broad strokes of "big battle against the White Walkers" and likely whoever ends up as king in the end will be the same in both books and show. But that's it.

[Valyrian Lance]

I think it would be rather trite and repetitive to have the Boltons beat Stannis handily at the battle of ice and then go back to being just as horrible before but with another wife of Ramsay's to traumatise. Why are you going through so much mental gymnastics to justify this? D+D have pretty much said that "there was this great story with Ramsay that we wanted to do, but one of the characters didn't exist." Sansa is taking Jeyne's place. That's it. I mean you're literally saying "well maybe Martin repeats the exact same story with two characters so this is actually super faithful to the books!" No. Some things we don't need to have read the future books to be very certain of.

At most Sansa will end up in the North and this gets her there earlier, but otherwise doesn't take up any less time.

I don't think you or anyone can say for a certainty where the storylines are going to end up.

Say Sansa ends up in the North after the annihilation of Boltons by Stannis/Manderlys/Mance with Vale Knights on her heels after marrying Harry the Heir and disposing of Robert Arryn in the books.

Is there that much of a difference if in the show she takes the role of Manderly/Mance as well as Jeyne Poole in bringing down the Boltons and the Vale Knights are delivered by Littlefinger instead of Harry the Heir?

[Valyrian Lance]

I think Sansa will end up in the North in TWOW and that the change D+D have made gets her there a bit earlier. But that's it. I do not think D+D are going to handle the psychological trauma of being raped very well at all. They're already flip flopping and trying to make Sansa all strong and empowered by...having her call Ramsay a bastard to his face? Picking up a corkscrew? There's clearly no plan for Sansa's characterisation here and their handling of trauma from abuse has already been tactless.

As for why people are outraged at this change but were fine with Jeyne's storyline in the books? Well there's been plenty of discussion on that. I find it hard to believe that you haven't seen people's arguments so it seems very disingenuous to claim that you're shocked about that. Characters aren't interchangeable; Sansa's character arc and indeed all logic had to be destroyed to get her to Winterfell. The fact that they went out of their way to include this rape scene, while other far more important plots, events and characters lie on the cutting room floor is disgusting quite frankly.

Also, I don't believe for a second that the books and the show will actually end up with the same endings, outside of broad similarities. D+D claim they will, but D+D also claim that S5 is mostly sticking with the books and that S6 will be where it starts to deviate. Clearly their idea of sticking to the books is very different from most people's. We'll get the very broad strokes of "big battle against the White Walkers" and likely whoever ends up as king in the end will be the same in both books and show. But that's it.

I disagree about destroying Sansa's character arc because we don't know where it ends up.

Her initial plan was to play ball until an opening exposed itself. Good plan if you don't know Ramsay is psychotic.

After realizing he is psychotic, she panicked and asked for help. She mistakenly trusted in Theon to deliver the candle to the right place. She reverted back to her old self (pretty common thing to do when panicking)

Now she knows that she must do things herself. She may force Theon into helping her or convince him in some way to actually help. She may take matters into her own hands like she was prepared to do by picking up the corkscrew. In Season 1, Episode 10, when she saw the opportunity to push Joffrey off the ledge, she froze. This season she actively picks up the corkscrew. She has started to play mind games. There is precious screen time to show every nuance of a changing character, especially since we do not have the benefit of inner monologue to display someone's state of mind. These little actions have to be the things that tip the audience off. If she doesn't freeze when the time is right, her arc will have progressed.

The point is that we don't know what she is going to do, so we cannot say that her arc is destroyed.

[Hippocras]

Sure they can. They're already injecting spoilers into the show. They have come very close to outright saying we did it because we thought it would be cool, we wanted to put these characters together.

We know Selmy will die before he gets to Westeros, because, he's dead in the show. We know that greyscale is going to play a role in Westeros because Jorah Mormont has it now. Spoilers abound on the show. We saw the nights king and will see him again.

So, I really don't know what you are talking about when you try to say that Sansa marrying Ramsay could happen in the books but they "can't tell us" because of course they can, but they have told us the opposite.

This is all kind of bs sorry.

1. Saying they wanted to put characters together is not a spoiler. It says nothing about what happens in the books to those characters.

2. Selmy dying in the show means nothing IMO. He very well might die after arriving in Westeros if his death is related to Aegon who is probably cut from the show. So the show would need to have him die another way. His show death is not a spoiler, and even if it were, it would not be AT ALL the same thing as them saying they made a choice because of what happens in the books to a character in WoW.

3. We always knew greyscale would play a role or JonCon would not have been infected. That is not a spoiler, and once again, it is not at all the same thing as D&D saying outright that something in particular happens in WoW and that is why they did it. Jorah bringing it to Meereen if anything is meant to replace the Pale Mare plague, which we were also already aware of.

4. Do you really fail to see the difference between D&D telling the media that something or other happens in unpublished material, and them including something in the show that moves the story forward? One is them talking directly, unambiguously about what happens in someone else's unpublished books, which would land them in a great deal of legal trouble. The other is them making a show that needs to reach the same endpoint as the books, but that can get ther by other means, meaning that what you see on screen may be related, but not the same as the books, and leaves you guessing until we actually get the books.

[Cas Stark]

This is all kind of bs sorry.

1. Saying they wanted to put characters together is not a spoiler. It says nothing about what happens in the books to those characters.

2. Selmy dying in the show means nothing IMO. He very well might die after arriving in Westeros if his death is related to Aegon who is probably cut from the show. So the show would need to have him die another way. His show death is not a spoiler, and even if it were, it would not be AT ALL the same thing as them saying they made a choice because of what happens in the books to a character in WoW.

3. We always knew greyscale would play a role or JonCon would not have been infected. That is not a spoiler, and once again, it is not at all the same thing as D&D saying outright that something in particular happens in WoW and that is why they did it. Jorah bringing it to Meereen if anything is meant to replace the Pale Mare plague, which we were also already aware of.

4. Do you really fail to see the difference between D&D telling the media that something or other happens in unpublished material, and them including something in the show that moves the story forward? One is them talking directly, unambiguously about what happens in someone else's unpublished books, which would land them in a great deal of legal trouble. The other is them making a show that needs to reach the same endpoint as the books, but that can get ther by other means, meaning that what you see on screen may be related, but not the same as the books, and leaves you guessing until we actually get the books.

Legal trouble? What are you talking about. HBO owns the rights to the story, LMAO. They are going to finish the story before Martin does because he sold the rights.

You can feel free to wait another 10 years or wait forever to acknowledge that Sansa Stark doesn't marry Ramsay Bolton in the books if you want to, but I don't need to read the books to know that this does not happen.

[Hippocras]

Legal trouble? What are you talking about. HBO owns the rights to the story, LMAO. They are going to finish the story before Martin does because he sold the rights.

You can feel free to wait another 10 years or wait forever to acknowledge that Sansa Stark doesn't marry Ramsay Bolton in the books if you want to, but I don't need to read the books to know that this does not happen.

guess again.

They do NOT own the right to the books, and can not talk directly about what happens in the ones that have not been published.

The only story they can talk to the media about is the show story.

[The Rat Kook]

Do they ever casting announcements in "waves"? Some Citadel Maesters/Maesters-in-training could get cast afterwards for the latter weeks of shooting?

[Cas Stark]

guess again.

They do NOT own the right to the books, and can not talk directly about what happens in the ones that have not been published.

The only story they can talk to the media about is the show story.

They are going to finish the story in 2 years, which will include material from the unpublished books, which they will talk about, so you are mistaken.

[barristan-b]

Do they ever casting announcements in "waves"? Some Citadel Maesters/Maesters-in-training could get cast afterwards for the latter weeks of shooting?

I think they do. So, yeah that's kinda what I'm wondering because of the lack of Citadel characters. Or maybe Sam will end up going to Horn Hill next and they're doing an extremely accelerated Oldtown (or none at all). Marwyn and the Sphinx seem cool for TV and wouldn't take up too much time.

[Cas Stark]

I can't remember, did they announce casting calls previously during the season?

[Colonel Green]

From what I recall of last year, we basically got the notable parts in two big waves, with the largest roles being concentrated in the first call (e.g., all the Dornish characters). After that it was just small parts.

[NewJeffCT]

Do they ever casting announcements in "waves"? Some Citadel Maesters/Maesters-in-training could get cast afterwards for the latter weeks of shooting?

Yes, usually they have announced who they're looking for in one big group. However, it is never an all-inclusive list - just the majority of new characters for the upcoming season. (I think Mance was separate from the rest of the season 3 characters announced?)

[Hippocras]

They are going to finish the story in 2 years, which will include material from the unpublished books, which they will talk about, so you are mistaken.

No, I am not mistaken.

I said talk to the media about. The show is based on the books but is not the books. That is what they have said all along. They have NEVER and WILL never say in an interview that such and such a thing is going to happen in the books.

They do the show and keep you guessing how much of what you see in the show is the same as the books.

[Hippocras]

Yes, usually they have announced who they're looking for in one big group. However, it is never an all-inclusive list - just the majority of new characters for the upcoming season. (I think Mance was separate from the rest of the season 3 characters announced?)

exactly. This early list is by no means all of the new characters.