Season 6 Casting, Sightings and Speculations

[Cas Stark]

Fair enough, I do agree that is somewhat of a big spoiler. But did anybody truly believe that he would defeat Daenerys in light of the visions at the House of the Undying and the general hints about his cause being doomed (i.e., no dragons, greyscale, the cyvasse game with Tyrion, etc.)?

No, not defeat her, but I left open the idea that he could in fact be the third head of the dragon, and that just because he's the mummer's dragon doesn't mean he's fake, and that rather than her simply rolling over the Targ pretender something more interesting would happen. Now, I fear we are stuck with Tyrion Lannister, maybe a secret Targ [stab me in the eye] as the third head, and I just dislike that for a lot of reasons. I didn't put that much weight on the cyvasse game as others did, but looks like I was wrong.

[Newstar]

Newstar,

I disagree almost entirely with your list of things suposedly spoiled by the show. Some of the thins you mentioned had already been all but confirmed in the books (the Hound being the gravedigger, Theon being castrated), were very obvious developments, (Alayne being revealed as Sansa is a no-brainer), where things widely assumed by fandom (I remember people suggesting that Stannis was going to sacrifice Shireen 15 years ago), or just discredits wild theories that never had much weight into it (Jon-Val, Jeyne being pregnant).

Remember that two weeks ago people was saying that the show had spoiled that Euron was not important because he had been cut. Now he appears in the casting call for next season and all of the sudden he is super-important. By the same logic, perhaps the last season will include a young boy with blue hair that's desinted to end sit in the Iron Throne.

LOL, I've been following the boards and other ASOIAF discussion forums for a while now, and there is a substantial amount of disagreement on things you amusingly claim are the fandom consensus. And just because the fandom agrees on something or sees it as "all but confirmed," in your words, doesn't mean it's right. To the fandom, it was "all but confirmed," in your words, that Coldhands was Benjen. We now know that that's not true.

So when the show spoils something, regardless of what the fandom consensus is on any particular point, you should sit up and take notice and recognize it as a spoiler, because fans, even when they're in agreement, can be very, very wrong. A theory doesn't magically become a fact just because more fans think it's the case.

[Faint]

Another possible big spoiler, at least from my perspective -- and assuming they have not changed this from the books -- is that Brienne is not the younger, more "beautiful" woman to cast Cersei down -- and it looks like Sansa is not her either.

It also looks like, and again, this is assuming they have not changed things, that Brienne's story ultimately leads to Stannis.

I will allow that these two developments can change by the end of the season but if Brienne stays in the North (and if Sansa does as well, I guess, although that seems obvious), then is it fair to say the younger woman is either Margaery or Daenerys?

[Newstar]

Another possible big spoiler, at least from my perspective -- and assuming they have not changed this from the books -- is that Brienne is not the younger, more "beautiful" woman to cast Cersei down -- and it looks like Sansa is not her either.

It also looks like, and again, this is assuming they have not changed things, that Brienne's story ultimately leads to Stannis.

I will allow that these two developments can change by the end of the season but if Brienne stays in the North (and if Sansa does as well, I guess, although that seems obvious), then is it fair to say the younger woman is either Margaery or Daenerys?

I always thought the prophecy was dumb, because as of ADWD, Cersei has already lost a good deal of what she holds dear--her firstborn son, her pride, Jaime, etc.--without any one woman being responsible.

[Cas Stark]

Another possible big spoiler, at least from my perspective -- and assuming they have not changed this from the books -- is that Brienne is not the younger, more "beautiful" woman to cast Cersei down -- and it looks like Sansa is not her either.

It also looks like, and again, this is assuming they have not changed things, that Brienne's story ultimately leads to Stannis.

I will allow that these two developments can change by the end of the season but if Brienne stays in the North (and if Sansa does as well, I guess, although that seems obvious), then is it fair to say the younger woman is either Margaery or Daenerys?

Brienne was always a fairly out there interpretation, beauty on the inside, that was a long shot. I didn't expect Brienne's story to lead to Stannis, I'm sure how that will work since it seemed like she and Jamie had something to resolve, so if that is a spoiler that's big, I agree.

Younger and more beautiful queen is Dany. We should assume its not Marg because Cersei thinks it is. People discounted Dany because 'too obvious' but some things are obvious.

[Hippocras]

Would there really be that many new characters introduced at this stage of the game? We're into either the second-last or the third-last season. I'm not anticipating a huge wave of new castings.

It sounds like (what I imagine will be) the sacking of the Reach is going to be a big setpiece in TWOW. GRRM has said that Highgarden would be a future location, and I'm guessing it's because shit goes down there in the books.

As for the show spoiling the books, I think that if Tommen or Myrcella dies this season--and based on the season opening with Maggy's prophecy, I'm thinking at least one of them has to go--I don't know that that's much of a spoiler, since they were pretty clearly doomed. It wouldn't be a spoiler in the same way that Jojen's death wasn't a spoiler; we all figured it was coming.

With that said, there's a long list of things which seem to have been spoiled by the show, and that list is growing as the show goes on:

1. Sansa/Tyrion marriage gets annulled.

2. Sweetrobin survives the poisoning plot.

3. Sansa/Harry marriage either doesn't happen or is irrelevant.

4. Sansa doesn't become a power broker in the Vale.

5. Sansa is not going to stay permanently in her Alayne identity.

6. The Hound is alive.

7. Jon/Val is not endgame and Val will never be Jon's queen.

8. Penny dies or is irrelevant.

9. Victarion dies in the Battle of Meereen.

10. Barristan dies in the Battle of Meereen.

11. Aegon dies or is not the endgame king (I might be jumping the gun on this one, but I don't think Trystane is Aegon).

12. Arianne dies or is irrelevant.

13. Stannis dies (maybe a little early to call this one, but it's really not looking good for him at this point in Season 5).

14. Shireen dies.

15. Sam's journey to Oldtown is super-important.

16. Lady Stoneheart lets Jaime and Brienne go for some reason.

17. Dany's not the endgame queen (reaching a bit here, but the HOTU vision in the show showed Dany turning away from the throne, plus it's been hammered into our heads not so subtly this season that Dany is ill prepared to rule Westeros).

18. R+L = J.

19. Jeyne Westerling is not pregnant.

20. Theon was definitely castrated.

21. JonCon's greyscale is a big deal.

22. Jorah dies.

23. Tyrion and Dany meet.

24. Mance dies.

...Will probably keep editing this as other stuff occurs to me.

It is not really about whether the show spoils the books to some extent, because clearly the show will go on and the books will take a while.

The point is, that D&D can't discuss in any way the specifics of the books which have not been published. Based on the show we can guess this or that might happen or probably happens in the books, but we will not know for sure, and we will not know anything at all about how those things come about in the books until we read them regardless of what the show does.

A story is not really about the ending because if it were reading the last page of books and not the rest would be more common and more satisfying.

The show will get us to the same endpoint but the journey will be different, and until we read the books we will not have the slightest clue just HOW different or similar they are.

So is Sansa's book story this season spoilery? I don't personally have a clue. It might be, in surprising ways. Myranda is a clue there: The books have a character, Myranda Royce, who is supposedly Alayne's friend, and who wanted to marry Harry herself she states directly. How much will that small book detail matter? How much was that detail an inspiration for show Myranda...who wants Ramsay for herself and pretends to be Sansa's friend. These are the kinds of things the show will do from now on that will keep us guessing, and make the books feel fresh when we read them, eventually.

[Faint]

Younger and more beautiful queen is Dany. We should assume its not Marg because Cersei thinks it is. People discounted Dany because 'too obvious' but some things are obvious.

I went from thinking it was definitely going to be Daenerys to definitely thinking it was going to be Brienne back to Daenerys, I guess. I have always dismissed Margaery and Sansa as candidates.

I am a little hesitant about any of Brienne's story being confirmed though because she is in such a state of flux on the show. So far she has confronted both Arya and Sansa in order to save them and been rejected both times -- neither development which happens in the book. Now she is standing outside Winterfell . . . waiting.

Which is all a way of saying that nothing truly consequential has happened that would lock her story in place. Unless something more substantial develops by the end of the season, she can leave to Casterly Rock, or anywhere else for that matter, and it will not really have revealed much about her future story.

When it comes to Jaime and her the show, it is still quite possible that the entirety of their stories during the fifth season is simply filler. So I am cautious about using their narratives on the show this season as a reference point for future events.

[Faint]

I always thought the prophecy was dumb, because as of ADWD, Cersei has already lost a good deal of what she holds dear--her firstborn son, her pride, Jaime, etc.--without any one woman being responsible.

Actually, there has been one woman responsible for all those events. Her name is Cersei Lannister.

[Cas Stark]

I went from thinking it was definitely going to be Daenerys to definitely thinking it was going to be Brienne back to Daenerys, I guess. I have always dismissed Margaery and Sansa as candidates.

I am a little hesitant about any of Brienne's story being confirmed though because she is in such a state of flux on the show. So far she has confronted both Arya and Sansa in order to save them and been rejected both times -- neither development which happens in the book. Now she is standing outside Winterfell . . . waiting.

Which is all a way of saying that nothing truly consequential has happened that would lock her story in place. Unless something more substantial develops by the end of the season, she can leave to Casterly Rock, or anywhere else for that matter, and it will not really have revealed much about her future story.

When it comes to Jaime and her the show, it is still quite possible that the entirety of their stories during the fifth season is simply filler. So I am cautious about using their narratives on the show this season as a reference point for future events.

I thought it was Sansa for a while, Sansa or Dany.

The show is pretty heavily foreshadowing Stannis dying and Brienne confronting him. They tend to be heavy handed and direct, but her book story feels like she has to get back to Jamie. They have made a mess of Winterfell so who knows how they get everyone out of it, LOL.

I can't see how Stannis can lose the Battle of Winterfell, that makes no sense to me at all, it's time for the bad guys to suffer a loss and for Stannis to get a win, even though the show is hinting at something else, so it feels too early for him to die and to die in such a lame way, ugh. And Mel has seen him as king, and GRRM has said many people sit the IT before the end and so far we only have Tommen.

How that stupid freak Euron Greyjoy plays into all of this, ugh. I truly was hoping that would get cut...at least to get back somewhat to the thread of casting news.

[Stonehearted Snake]

I went from thinking it was definitely going to be Daenerys to definitely thinking it was going to be Brienne back to Daenerys, I guess. I have always dismissed Margaery and Sansa as candidates.

I am a little hesitant about any of Brienne's story being confirmed though because she is in such a state of flux on the show. So far she has confronted both Arya and Sansa in order to save them and been rejected both times -- neither development which happens in the book. Now she is standing outside Winterfell . . . waiting.

Which is all a way of saying that nothing truly consequential has happened that would lock her story in place. Unless something more substantial develops by the end of the season, she can leave to Casterly Rock, or anywhere else for that matter, and it will not really have revealed much about her future story.

When it comes to Jaime and her the show, it is still quite possible that the entirety of their stories during the fifth season is simply filler. So I am cautious about using their narratives on the show this season as a reference point for future events.

I might be the same... not totally giving up on Brienne yet, but it seems less likely now. But I also count Sansa in the mix too. I guess though that Dany is the strongest contender if we take the thing that Cersei holds most dear as power...? (that's why I also count Sansa because, in the books at least, I still think she will end up in a position of great strength opposing KL in some way).

[Stonehearted Snake]

Would there really be that many new characters introduced at this stage of the game? We're into either the second-last or the third-last season. I'm not anticipating a huge wave of new castings.

It sounds like (what I imagine will be) the sacking of the Reach is going to be a big setpiece in TWOW. GRRM has said that Highgarden would be a future location, and I'm guessing it's because shit goes down there in the books.

As for the show spoiling the books, I think that if Tommen or Myrcella dies this season--and based on the season opening with Maggy's prophecy, I'm thinking at least one of them has to go--I don't know that that's much of a spoiler, since they were pretty clearly doomed. It wouldn't be a spoiler in the same way that Jojen's death wasn't a spoiler; we all figured it was coming.

With that said, there's a long list of things which seem to have been spoiled by the show, and that list is growing as the show goes on:

1. Sansa/Tyrion marriage gets annulled.

2. Sweetrobin survives the poisoning plot.

3. Sansa/Harry marriage either doesn't happen or is irrelevant.

4. Sansa doesn't become a power broker in the Vale.

5. Sansa is not going to stay permanently in her Alayne identity.

6. The Hound is alive.

7. Jon/Val is not endgame and Val will never be Jon's queen.

8. Penny dies or is irrelevant.

9. Victarion dies in the Battle of Meereen.

10. Barristan dies in the Battle of Meereen.

11. Aegon dies or is not the endgame king (I might be jumping the gun on this one, but I don't think Trystane is Aegon).

12. Arianne dies or is irrelevant.

13. Stannis dies (maybe a little early to call this one, but it's really not looking good for him at this point in Season 5).

14. Shireen dies.

15. Sam's journey to Oldtown is super-important.

16. Lady Stoneheart lets Jaime and Brienne go for some reason.

17. Dany's not the endgame queen (reaching a bit here, but the HOTU vision in the show showed Dany turning away from the throne, plus it's been hammered into our heads not so subtly this season that Dany is ill prepared to rule Westeros).

18. R+L = J.

19. Jeyne Westerling is not pregnant.

20. Theon was definitely castrated.

21. JonCon's greyscale is a big deal.

22. Jorah dies.

23. Tyrion and Dany meet.

24. Mance dies.

...Will probably keep editing this as other stuff occurs to me.

I would possibly add SanSan to this list. Not sure though but that doesn't seem to be any part of the show's story.

[The hairy bear]

LOL, I've been following the boards and other ASOIAF discussion forums for a while now, and there is a substantial amount of disagreement on things you amusingly claim are the fandom consensus. And just because the fandom agrees on something or sees it as "all but confirmed," in your words, doesn't mean it's right. To the fandom, it was "all but confirmed," in your words, that Coldhands was Benjen. We now know that that's not true.

I dont think that Bejen being Coldhands or Sandor being the Gravedigger are comparable situations. The first was just the most popular theory, favored by most fans but with no clear evidence to support it.

Sandor being the Gravedigger isn't seriously doubted by anyone. The castration of Theon was also cleary alluded in the text. It's not that the show has spoiled it, is that the books were subtle (something the show is incapable of). That greyscale is mortal has been repeteadly stated. That Tyrion and Dany would meet was obvious from the first book when Tyrion was studying books about dragons. Penny and Shireen are walking sacrificial lambs. Jon+Val or the pregnancy of Jeyne Westerling were minor theories with marginal support. That there's something more to Brienne and Jaime's story is a plot requirement (Martin is not going to introduce a single chapter in Winds about them to show their execution),...

R+L = J. Really? I entered this forum 15 year ago and that was already accepted as a fact back then.

I know that probably at the end of this reason, and for sure during the next ones, we will get a lot of heavy obvious spoliers. But so far, any one from your list would be something that I would haven't been convinced of even if the show had never been produced.

[Faint]

To be fair, the season is not over. We might very well know precisely the who, how and when of Jon's resurrection and/or recovery during the season finale. That I would count as a pretty big spoiler.

[Newstar]

I would possibly add SanSan to this list. Not sure though but that doesn't seem to be any part of the show's story.

The casting of what seems to be a Septon Meribald/Elder Brother mashup suggests that the Hound is indeed on his way back. That's certainly more promising for SanSan than the Hound staying out of the picture, although if Sansa stays north and the Hound is stuck in the Riverlands or heads back to KL, that wouldn't bode well.

[Colonel Green]

TV Sweetrobin is as safe and protected as he could possibly be and has neither poisoning nor ill health to contend with. Also, TV LF and Sansa don't look like they'll be taking any detours to the Vale anytime soon. Sure, Sweetrobin could die in the books, and TV Littlefinger or Sansa could receive a raven saying BTW, Sweetrobin died unexpectedly, we have a succession crisis you need to sort out, but that's pretty unlikely, wouldn't you agree? All that adds up to there being no succession crisis in the Vale in the books: Book Sweetrobin isn't going anywhere.

No, that just as easily adds up to the show deciding they want to cut the Vale crisis and skip ahead to whatever comes after. Leaving Robin alive is the only way to avoid such a plot.

Robert Arryn certainly could survive in the books, but I don't think this tells you much either way.

[Newstar]

No, that just as easily adds up to the show deciding they want to cut the Vale crisis and skip ahead to whatever comes after. Leaving Robin alive is the only way to avoid such a plot.

Robert Arryn certainly could survive in the books, but I don't think this tells you much either way.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

The 5x10 synopsis is out. I had been assuming that the outcome of the Battle of Ice would be spoiled by the end of the season, but it could be just gearing up, as the synopsis states that "Stannis marches." 5x10 is going to be pretty packed already, so it's possible that Jon gets a letter that purports to tell the outcome of the battle, without the truth of what happened being known.

[Colonel Green]

The 5x10 synopsis is out. I had been assuming that the outcome of the Battle of Ice would be spoiled by the end of the season, but it could be just gearing up, as the synopsis states that "Stannis marches." 5x10 is going to be pretty packed already, so it's possible that Jon gets a letter that purports to tell the outcome of the battle, without the truth of what happened being known.

I'd been going back and forth on how that battle would be handled, and for a while there I was thinking there might not even be a Pink Letter, given how completely disconnected those plots have been. But after they had Ramsay bring up Jon in his conversation with Sansa, I'm back to thinking it's in, in one form or another.

I had previously thought the Walk of Shame was in episode 9, but from the synopsis it's clearly in episode 10. Based on that, I'm moving my predictions for the Winterfell escape to episode 9, seeing as that will presumably be a reasonable chunk of screentime. Putting it in episode 9 allows for episode 10 to have the escapees in Stannis' camp (since Brienne meeting Stannis has been fairly clearly foreshadowed this season), which in turn will lead to the Boltons having to come at Stannis with their army, hence, Stannis marching to battle.

[Deadwood]

Soso.. selfish... explain that! XD

He is a good part for me to play.

[Slender Aimry Hill]

Another slight bit of Tarly gossip - my friend auditioning for 'Son' said that Tim McInnerny, probably most famous for being Percy and Captain Darling in Blackadder, had auditioned for 'Father'.

Pretty out there choice for Randyll, I'd say, but a certain name recognition...

[aFeastForDragons]

The 5x10 synopsis is out. I had been assuming that the outcome of the Battle of Ice would be spoiled by the end of the season, but it could be just gearing up, as the synopsis states that "Stannis marches." 5x10 is going to be pretty packed already, so it's possible that Jon gets a letter that purports to tell the outcome of the battle, without the truth of what happened being known.

I'm very sure that it will happen just like in the books and we won't find out the outcome until season 6.