Why not kill Sansa?

[HouseHarrison]

In the show none of the characters actions really make sense anymore

[Edd Tollett's One Vote]

I don't see it this way. If any of the lords/houses would do anything, they would have done it after the Red Wedding, where basically the whole Stark house (Starks and the soldiers) got wiped out. OK, if not, how about when Theon took over Winterfell and "murdered" the 2 Stark boys? No. And as far as people know, the Boltons still have the Lannisters' backing (realistically or not).

Stannis is coming, not because of Sansa, but to take the North, so Sansa is alive or not, doesn't matter to him - she would actually be in the way.

Well most of the North's power is with Robb when Theon takes over, IIRC, so they probably would have acted after their King returned.

After the Red Wedding, they had to regroup. I don't see a book spoilers tag on this thread, so I'll just say that the show shows us very little if what the major Northern Houses are doing, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that they might be at least thinking of rebelling against the Boltons. Certainly, It would be understandable if Roose believed that the Stark-supporters weren't truly behind him.

Plus, Roose initially had he Lannister's backing, but he's realized that without Tywin that means significantly less. This increases the precariousness of his position. Maybe such a powerful ally was what was keeping the Northern Lords loyal, and once they realize that the Boltons no longer have that power to back them up, they'll be more likely to rebel. (And people will realize)

As for Sansa, she's significantly more of a threat to him if he leaves her with LF, who can use her to make a claim on the North. Knowing that she's out there, Roose would be crazy not to do something,

Yes, he could kill her. But marrying her to Ramsey binds the North to him in a different way, a way that is less contentious since the Northerners are less likely to rebel against Ned's daughter, or his grandson (in future).

Further, if he has her with him and she plays her part she's an asset, if she does try to cause trouble, or seem to be acting away that will be bad for Roose, we'll he can always resort to killing her then right? And it'll be a lot easier to keep tabs on her right there in Winterfell than if she stays in the Vale,

[Edd Tollett's One Vote]

Sorry. Double post,

[Pies are coming]

As Lyanna Mormont, Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is Stark. That's why the Boltons need the marriage with Sansa. And killing her doesn't provide any benefit because I doubt they see her as a dangerous person on her own right.

The problem with the show is that it gets diluted because there are no more Northern Lords remaining. Now, you can't throw Manderly and Sansa together at Winterfell because Sansa would be taking command of the Manderly forces within minutes and would order an attack on all Bolton forces. But as things stand right now, the remaining Northern Lords do not seem to pose a threat to the Boltons because they mostly seem very minor lords like those random Lords Ramsay flayed at the start of the season.

(crosses fingers that Stanns runs into the Greatjon, the Mountain Clans or a host from Bear Island)

[Johnsmith]

The only way I see this charcter without a wolf, reduced to a Bastard. Like her book counterpart. Having any kind of fairytale from here

Is if and that is a big if, if somehow the Vale of Arryn gets turned into a refugee haven. She will have to face other obstacles prior

.

[Nefertari]

Well,for the Boltons her role as a Stark ends once she gives birth to a child.

So, after THAT the Boltons would kill her, in a way or another.

[Mikeygigs]

The Bolton's can use a Stark, same as in the books for legitimacy purposes. The difference is that the Northern Lords are replaced by the Northern people in the show. I do not think its as effective, but that is the context given as to why she is needed.

A better question: why does Sansa need the Boltons if Stannis is going to take Winterfell and kick the Bolton's out in the end? Why not just go to Wall to begin with, and help Stannis rally the North? I just do not understand LF's logic -- marry Ramsay, all the while counting on the fact that Stannis is going to win? Gimme a break, that is just sloppy.

Why the Boltons need a Stark is not what doesn't make sense in this story -- its the whole premise.

[Christi84]

The Bolton's can use a Stark, same as in the books for legitimacy purposes. The difference is that the Northern Lords are replaced by the Northern people in the show. I do not think its as effective, but that is the context given as to why she is needed.

A better question: why does Sansa need the Boltons if Stannis is going to take Winterfell and kick the Bolton's out in the end? Why not just go to Wall to begin with, and help Stannis rally the North? I just do not understand LF's logic -- marry Ramsay, all the while counting on the fact that Stannis is going to win? Gimme a break, that is just sloppy.

Why the Boltons need a Stark is not what doesn't make sense in this story -- its the whole premise.

Exactly. All LF ever had to do was take Sansa to one of the Northern Lords or take her to the Wall to Stannis himself. How many of those houses would come straight to Stannis once Lord Commander Jon Snow says his sister is at the Wall and theyre going to march on WF? The whole idea of this arc for her in the show is completely ridiculous.

I dont understand taking her out of one torturous place and putting her in another, and it seems like something LF would never do. Logically he couldve just married her himself and rode to WF with The Vale soldiers all the while collecting the Northern lords armies. I cant understand whats going on unless this is all meant for Sansa to be tortured and be some weak version of LSH or something.

[Candor]

The Bolton's can use a Stark, same as in the books for legitimacy purposes. The difference is that the Northern Lords are replaced by the Northern people in the show. I do not think its as effective, but that is the context given as to why she is needed.

A better question: why does Sansa need the Boltons if Stannis is going to take Winterfell and kick the Bolton's out in the end? Why not just go to Wall to begin with, and help Stannis rally the North? I just do not understand LF's logic -- marry Ramsay, all the while counting on the fact that Stannis is going to win? Gimme a break, that is just sloppy.

Why the Boltons need a Stark is not what doesn't make sense in this story -- its the whole premise.

:agree:

Precisely.

[sb.69]

The Bolton's can use a Stark, same as in the books for legitimacy purposes. The difference is that the Northern Lords are replaced by the Northern people in the show. I do not think its as effective, but that is the context given as to why she is needed.

A better question: why does Sansa need the Boltons if Stannis is going to take Winterfell and kick the Bolton's out in the end? Why not just go to Wall to begin with, and help Stannis rally the North? I just do not understand LF's logic -- marry Ramsay, all the while counting on the fact that Stannis is going to win? Gimme a break, that is just sloppy.

Why the Boltons need a Stark is not what doesn't make sense in this story -- its the whole premise.

I think, in the TV, Sansa does not need the Boltons - my impression is that revenge is the motive - at least that's what LF uses to get Sansa to go to Winterfell willingly (and deliver her to the Boltons). I'm not sure how much she knows about Stannis at this point.

Everyone knows about Roose and the Red Wedding, and if I'm not mistaken, the Lannisters appointed Roose as the Warden of the North, so in a way, the Boltons have the North. They don't really need a Stark for legitimacy. If you say as a hostage, ok, I'll give you that.

As for LF, I can sorta see his game - he wants the throne. So he supposedly has the Eyrie, gets the Boltons go against Stannis, and eventually gets the North with Sansa's backing. I wouldn't be surprised if he's got something going with the Dornish to go after Lannisters/King's Landing.

[The Eunuch]

Exactly. All LF ever had to do was take Sansa to one of the Northern Lords or take her to the Wall to Stannis himself. How many of those houses would come straight to Stannis once Lord Commander Jon Snow says his sister is at the Wall and theyre going to march on WF? The whole idea of this arc for her in the show is completely ridiculous.

And how would LF know that Stannis is going to win? Everybody in the Seven Kingdoms know that he was defeated in King's Landing, remember? He's supposed to be weak and with nearly no army. And now you think it would be smart for LF to give Sansa to him? That is ridiculous, not the arc from the show.

The show has simplified the Vale intrigue. In the show, he is Lord Protector of the Vale (thanks to his marriage with Lysa), the Lord of the Vale seem to like him a lot (thanks to his manipulation skills), and the other lords of the Vale seem to like him too now (thanks to Sansa's revelations and the fact that Robin was given to Royce to foster). That's it. Littlefinger has nothing else to do in the Vale since he won, and now he's moving on to new goals and more power :

- in the North (he has an alliance with the Boltons thanks to this marriage with Sansa, and if she kills them or if Stannis kills them, he wins more power because Sansa would be grateful, and if Stannis loses and the Boltons survive, he also wins because they are his allies now),

- in King's Landing (he's probably going to play both sides : he'll offer his help to both Cersei and Olenna, watch them destroy eachother, and then rule with the one who survives, or Stannis).

LF's plan makes total sense, and it's the same since the beginning of the show : introducing chaos and playing both sides until he can win more titles.

[starklover]

And how would LF know that Stannis is going to win? Everybody in the Seven Kingdoms know that he was defeated in King's Landing, remember? He's supposed to be weak and with nearly no army. And now you think it would be smart for LF to give Sansa to him? That is ridiculous, not the arc from the show.

The show has simplified the Vale intrigue. In the show, he is Lord Protector of the Vale (thanks to his marriage with Lysa), the Lord of the Vale seem to like him a lot (thanks to his manipulation skills), and the other lords of the Vale seem to like him too now (thanks to Sansa's revelations and the fact that Robin was given to Royce to foster). That's it. Littlefinger has nothing else to do in the Vale since he won, and now he's moving on to new goals and more power :

- in the North (he has an alliance with the Boltons thanks to this marriage with Sansa, and if she kills them or if Stannis kills them, he wins more power because Sansa would be grateful, and if Stannis loses and the Boltons survive, he also wins because they are his allies now),

- in King's Landing (he's probably going to play both sides : he'll offer his help to both Cersei and Olenna, watch them destroy eachother, and then rule with the one who survives, or Stannis).

LF's plan makes total sense, and it's the same since the beginning of the show : introducing chaos and playing both sides until he can win more titles.

when you put it that way it makes since. he wants more titles and power.

[Johnsmith]

And how would LF know that Stannis is going to win? Everybody in the Seven Kingdoms know that he was defeated in King's Landing, remember? He's supposed to be weak and with nearly no army. And now you think it would be smart for LF to give Sansa to him? That is ridiculous, not the arc from the show.

The show has simplified the Vale intrigue. In the show, he is Lord Protector of the Vale (thanks to his marriage with Lysa), the Lord of the Vale seem to like him a lot (thanks to his manipulation skills), and the other lords of the Vale seem to like him too now (thanks to Sansa's revelations and the fact that Robin was given to Royce to foster). That's it. Littlefinger has nothing else to do in the Vale since he won, and now he's moving on to new goals and more power :

- in the North (he has an alliance with the Boltons thanks to this marriage with Sansa, and if she kills them or if Stannis kills them, he wins more power because Sansa would be grateful, and if Stannis loses and the Boltons survive, he also wins because they are his allies now),

- in King's Landing (he's probably going to play both sides : he'll offer his help to both Cersei and Olenna, watch them destroy eachother, and then rule with the one who survives, or Stannis).

LF's plan makes total sense, and it's the same since the beginning of the show : introducing chaos and playing both sides until he can win more titles.

I distinctly remembering him not wanting Stannis on the Iron Throne because of Stannis Iron Justice. Which is why he betrayed Ned. By wedding Sansa to the Bolton's he will get a douse of that justice if Stannis wins. Stannis won't forgive betrayal.

So his plan is total nonsense. Now instead of supporting a victor he is off to Kingslanding.

His plan makes no sense apart from chaos, which will cost him if the wrong side wins. If Stannis wins he gains nothing. So he is betting on a loss. Instead of supporting the Warden of North the Boltons with an army to crush Stannis immediately earning crown favour and entitlement. He commits treason instead.

He plays what game? His character makes 0 sense nadda zilch.

We can argue that he wants to deal the crushing blow to Stannis himself but hasn't he promised that army elsewhere?

[The Eunuch]

I distinctly remembering him not wanting Stannis on the Iron Throne because of his Iron Justice. Which is why he betrayed Ned. By wedding Sansa to the Bolton's he will get a douse of that justice if Stannis wins.

So his plan is nonsense. Now instead of supporting a victor he is off to Kingslanding.

His plan makes no sense apart from chaos, which will cost him. If Stannis wins he gains nothing forseeable. So he is betting on a loss. Instead of supporting the Warden of North the Boltons with an army to crush Stannis immediately earning crown favour and entitlement. He commits treason instead.

He plays what game? His character makes 0 sense nadda zilch

What makes 0 sense is your post. Why would LF fear Stannis's justice at the beginning of the story? If he said that to Ned, it was another lie to gain his trust. He didn't make anything illegal so he had no reason to fear Stannis at that moment : his real reason was that he wanted a war between the great houses so he could win more power.

Now, why would he fear Stannis's justice now? If Stannis wins against the Boltons, Sansa will talk to Stannis and explain LF's role in this, how he saved her from the Lannisters and how he gave her Winterfell. No reason for Stannis to give him a "douse of justice".

And you say it's a nonsense to go to Kingslanding? You really think it would be smart to stay in Winterfell with the upcoming siege and Winter? It's this that makes 0 sense, not LF's plan to plot against Cersei and the Tyrell.

[HexMachina]

What makes 0 sense is your post. Why would LF fear Stannis's justice at the beginning of the story? If he said that to Ned, it was another lie to gain his trust. He didn't make anything illegal so he had no reason to fear Stannis at that moment : his real reason was that he wanted a war between the great houses so he could win more power.

Now, why would he fear Stannis's justice now? If Stannis wins against the Boltons, Sansa will talk to Stannis and explain LF's role in this, how he saved her from the Lannisters and how he gave her Winterfell. No reason for Stannis to give him a "douse of justice".

And you say it's a nonsense to go to Kingslanding? You really think it would be smart to stay in Winterfell with the upcoming siege and Winter? It's this that makes 0 sense, not LF's plan to plot against Cersei and the Tyrell.

If Stannis had become King, Littlefinger would have gone back to his little holding on the Fingers at best, and been thrown in a cell for bribery and corruption at worst. It was not in his interests to have Stannis on the throne, because Stannis would not allow Littlefinger to continue his corrupt dealings, and certainly wouldn't want him in his Small Council.

[Bronn Urgandy]

The Boltons need Sansa as a brood mare, that is literally it. A half Stark kid in Winterfell, that happens to be half Bolton, that is a win, since the Northerners will rally to a Stark. It was the same plan Tywin hatched for Tyrion. LF is playing both sides, but I either he is lying and he thinks Stannis will lose, or he's actually scared of Roose and would take Stannis over him in a heart beat, I can't blame him for the latter.

Also show Stannis lived on Dragonstone for 15 years, he doesn't know as much about Kings Landing corruption as his book counterpart, he didn't care about Janos Slynt apart from that Jon cut his head off for insubordination, which was an extension of the lesson he taught Jon about mercy the episode before, and probably has as much of an idea about what a weasel Littlefinger is as show Bronze Yohn Royce.

[The Eunuch]

If Stannis had become King, Littlefinger would have gone back to his little holding on the Fingers at best, and been thrown in a cell for bribery and corruption at worst. It was not in his interests to have Stannis on the throne, because Stannis would not allow Littlefinger to continue his corrupt dealings, and certainly wouldn't want him in his Small Council.

Is there any proof about bribery and corruption? Stannis needs supports and money, he won't throw in jail one of the most powerful Lords in Westeros (and also the person who's the best skilled to provide money) just because we, readers, know that he's corrupt.

[sb.69]

The Boltons need Sansa as a brood mare, that is literally it. A half Stark kid in Winterfell, that happens to be half Bolton, that is a win, since the Northerners will rally to a Stark.

If the North will get behind the Boltons and forget about all the betrayal and murdered of the Stark men/women at the Red Wedding just because Sansa is married to one, then I have nothing to say. On to the next episode.

[Bronn Urgandy]

If the North will get behind the Boltons and forget about all the betrayal and murdered of the Stark men/women at the Red Wedding just because Sansa is married to one, then I have nothing to say. On to the next episode.

They won't get behind the Boltons, but Sansa is the last surviving Stark according to common knowledge, the best chance they have is that the North will follow her son, regardless of who the father is. Its not full proof, nothing is, but its still the best chance they have of doing that most important thing in a fuedal world, which is not so much about gaining power now, but securing your dynasty.

[AdmiralKyrd]

Is there any proof about bribery and corruption? Stannis needs supports and money, he won't throw in jail one of the most powerful Lords in Westeros (and also the person who's the best skilled to provide money) just because we, readers, know that he's corrupt.

In the books (due to no spoiler tags in OP title)

Stannis muses about Littlefinger being corrupt when dealing with Janos Slynt at the Wall.