The North Storyline in S6

[I run a momarchy]

I think sansa is doomed. She really is just a way to show what other characters were doing in kings landing and the vale. I just cant figure out if she dies a traitor to her family again or if she dies trying to help her family. Or if she just dies cuz she was trying to help herself and realised to late she cant out smart little finger.

[Lord Friendzone]

I think so, too. She seemed to have forgotten about Jon until Ramsay reminded her that her bastard brother was alive and well at Castle Black. That scene was in there for a reason.

Boy, won't it suck though when she gets there and finds him dead? Well, dead-ish. LOL

 

It was there for a reason and Davos talking to Jon about Boltons and politics. If you pay attention...it's all there hints and foreshadowing for future. Yeah, it was like...I have a brother? That is very interesting. She might witness his resurrection and believe in what Jon will say to her.

[Scorpion92]

You see, I don't believe Sansa will encounter Jon at Castle Black for the simple fact that Jon is dead by the time Sansa and Theon escape Winterfell. There is NO way Sansa will not hear of Jon's "death" on her way up north, I don't think people realize the distance between Winterfell and Castle Black and it is not a frozen desert with no communications. If Jon is considered dead, then her trip to Castle Black would be pointless, and she will not travel to the Wall. But I think that she will not hear of Jon's demise right away, she will learn of it eventually on her way there.

And her way to Castle Black goes through Last Hearth, Umber lands, and the Gift, now wildlings lands. They definitely are aware what is going on at the Wall.

That is why I argue that once Sansa learns of Jon's stabbing on her way to him, which I think will be episode she meets Smalljon Umber at Last Hearth. He will inform her. The second episode Smalljon appears will be episode 9, thanks to confirmation that Umber will appear in two episodes (that kinda strengthens my point), and we know two things: Umbers are hiding Rickon all this time and that they take part in episode 9 battle o Bolton side. I think that means that eventually Umbers will defect to Starks during the battle with Smalljon Umber. 

After learning of Jon's death and Smalljon's request to leave Last Hearth as soon as possible to avoid Bolton wrath, Sansa decides that since powerful houses of the North are afraid to openly go against Boltons, she will need wildling support, and here is why.

Boltons and northerners in general dislike wildlings, that is true, and there is no way Ramsay will integrate them into the North, he would rather wipe them out. So Sansa might plan to offer wildlings a place in the North if they support Rickon, and he will make them part of his realm once he is Lord of Winterfell. Having only  wildlings on Rickon's side will not win him North, but at least it will encourage other northern houses to abandon Boltons and support a Stark ruler like everyone wants. It would be a start. Maybe even Davos comes Last Hearth to negotiate with Umbers on resurrected Jon's behalf and meets Starks and will escort them back to the Gift, I dunno.

And it makes sense for wildlings too, because they are sandwiched between two factions who hate their guts: northerners on the south who would rather wipe them out after a long history of war and Night's Watch to the north, especially after Jon's stabbing. Supporting Rickon might be the ONLY way for wildlings to hope to survive in the North. They actually need Rickon to be Lord of Winterfell and start their integration. Otherwise, they would be destroyed.

And there is a perfect candidate in Rickon's camp who can draw little Stark and Free Folk to the table: Osha. She is a wildling herself and a mother figure to Rickon, so she will have a huge influence in possible negotiations with wildlings since Sansa never interacted with Free Folk and won't be able to represent her younger brother with these men, they are just too different for her and she has not even met a wildling before.

But hey, I might be wrong about this, who knows. I think last season Theon's confession about Bran and Rickon really set up to me that Sansa would be the one to find the youngest Stark, not Jon. This is the main thought I keep in my head when I try to build a chain of possible story scenarios.

In order for Sansa to find Rickon, she needs to meet him in Last Hearth where he presides. And she won't be there unless she is travelling north to seek Jon out as I already stated, Rickon's whereabouts is not a public knowledge, so this means she will accidentally meet Rickon at Last Hearth on her way to Jon and reunite with him.

And we know that Last Hearth is very close to the Wall which means they know what is happening there and Umbers will inform Sansa about what happened to Jon. That is my logical chain, feel free to argue it, I would really appreciate well-thought criticism,

[Lord Friendzone]

Tormund and Wildlings will follow or listen to one person and that would be Jon. Even tho Jon is King Crow as they call him...he saved them, he understand what is going on there. Thorne after all said it to Jon that letting Wildlings through the Wall would get them all killed. Jon and Wildlings will make a short work with them. There is a reason why Wildlings are big part of his arch. I can imagine that Wildlings will hear what happened to Jon and NW first. Tormund is sort of a his ally and their leader, they can overthrow NW easily with their numbers. Then comes the resurrection and moving south. Since they let Ramsay mention Jon to Sansa. IT could mean Sansa will try to get there, but ends up elsewhere. She will get to CB. Either way Ramsay can suspect she went there.

Since Smalljon as the only named Umber, it's fair to say Umbers will be in only two episodes. With news so far. Not much for Sansa to interact with. It makes sense for Sansa to arrive to CB and find out about Jon. From then she can instruct Davos or see upcoming events.

[Mandzipop]

My other half hasn't read the books. He hasn't got a clue what has happened to Rickon. The TV show can send him where they want. The majority of the viewers have not read the books and going forward there are no books to stay faithful to. I'm not saying he's not there, he probably is, but considering what they have done to Sansa's storyline, I wouldn't be shocked if they changed it.

[Lady of Butterflies]

Rickon needs to die. The end.

[Colonel Green]

Book fate for Sansa will be different ofcourse but on the show, there is a slight possibilty. Truely, all Sansa has to do is tell Royce and Jon and others that it was Littlefinger that sold her the to Boltons behind her back, only to reveal to her when they approached Moat Caillin and she had no one there to turn to. Batfinger (Littlefinger cannot afford for that to happen). She is a threat to him. Besides, he promissed Ceresei her head and if Cersei re-asserts herself in King's Landing, he may have to figure a way out to make it happen.

Littlefinger's deal with Cersei was to allow him to take his troops north without arousing suspicion.  And regardless, the writers have said (again and again) that the characters' resolutions will be the same.

She really is just a way to show what other characters were doing in kings landing and the vale.

No, she isn't.  There is no significant exposition supplied in KL that couldn't have been done via Tyrion, if that was all GRRM wanted, and the Vale storyline is about her.

You see, I don't believe Sansa will encounter Jon at Castle Black for the simple fact that Jon is dead by the time Sansa and Theon escape Winterfell. There is NO way Sansa will not hear of Jon's "death" on her way up north, I don't think people realize the distance between Winterfell and Castle Black and it is not a frozen desert with no communications. If Jon is considered dead, then her trip to Castle Black would be pointless, and she will not travel to the Wall. But I think that she will not hear of Jon's demise right away, she will learn of it eventually on her way there.

And her way to Castle Black goes through Last Hearth, Umber lands, and the Gift, now wildlings lands. They definitely are aware what is going on at the Wall.

That is why I argue that once Sansa learns of Jon's stabbing on her way to him, which I think will be episode she meets Smalljon Umber at Last Hearth. He will inform her. The second episode Smalljon appears will be episode 9, thanks to confirmation that Umber will appear in two episodes (that kinda strengthens my point), and we know two things: Umbers are hiding Rickon all this time and that they take part in episode 9 battle o Bolton side. I think that means that eventually Umbers will defect to Starks during the battle with Smalljon Umber. 

After learning of Jon's death and Smalljon's request to leave Last Hearth as soon as possible to avoid Bolton wrath, Sansa decides that since powerful houses of the North are afraid to openly go against Boltons, she will need wildling support, and here is why.

Boltons and northerners in general dislike wildlings, that is true, and there is no way Ramsay will integrate them into the North, he would rather wipe them out. So Sansa might plan to offer wildlings a place in the North if they support Rickon, and he will make them part of his realm once he is Lord of Winterfell. Having only  wildlings on Rickon's side will not win him North, but at least it will encourage other northern houses to abandon Boltons and support a Stark ruler like everyone wants. It would be a start. Maybe even Davos comes Last Hearth to negotiate with Umbers on resurrected Jon's behalf and meets Starks and will escort them back to the Gift, I dunno.

And it makes sense for wildlings too, because they are sandwiched between two factions who hate their guts: northerners on the south who would rather wipe them out after a long history of war and Night's Watch to the north, especially after Jon's stabbing. Supporting Rickon might be the ONLY way for wildlings to hope to survive in the North. They actually need Rickon to be Lord of Winterfell and start their integration. Otherwise, they would be destroyed.

And there is a perfect candidate in Rickon's camp who can draw little Stark and Free Folk to the table: Osha. She is a wildling herself and a mother figure to Rickon, so she will have a huge influence in possible negotiations with wildlings since Sansa never interacted with Free Folk and won't be able to represent her younger brother with these men, they are just too different for her and she has not even met a wildling before.

But hey, I might be wrong about this, who knows. I think last season Theon's confession about Bran and Rickon really set up to me that Sansa would be the one to find the youngest Stark, not Jon. This is the main thought I keep in my head when I try to build a chain of possible story scenarios.

In order for Sansa to find Rickon, she needs to meet him in Last Hearth where he presides. And she won't be there unless she is travelling north to seek Jon out as I already stated, Rickon's whereabouts is not a public knowledge, so this means she will accidentally meet Rickon at Last Hearth on her way to Jon and reunite with him.

And we know that Last Hearth is very close to the Wall which means they know what is happening there and Umbers will inform Sansa about what happened to Jon. That is my logical chain, feel free to argue it, I would really appreciate well-thought criticism,

How much news of the Wall did Bran hear on his way there in season 3?  None, other than Jojen's visions.  So the idea that Sansa will necessarily learn that Jon is dead before she gets there doesn't hold water.

As for the rest, it would never occur to Sansa to try to ally with the Wildlings.  She has no history with them, and would view them, from a distance, the same way any other Westerosi does; and in any event, she's totally unsuited to negotiating with them.  Jon is the one who will lead the Wildlings, and his resurrection will most likely occur very early in the season, probably before Sansa even gets to the Wall.

[Maid So Fair]

So, do you think Sansa is indespensible to the show runners?

I don't think she's indispensable, but she's definitely one of the protagonists and therefore more important than LF, and her potentail to undo his has been heavily foreshadowed. Besides, he's already killed Ned - killing Sansa would be entirely superfluous and OOC for him. It would bring nothing to the story. 

[A Ghost of Someone]

 I agree that she is supposed to be the protagonist but I feel that she is doomed. Maybe they cause each others death but the show runners took a path in having her go be bride to Ramsay and under the circumstances in the show, her danger has excellerated expedentially.

[Colonel Green]

Maybe they cause each others death but the show runners took a path in having her go be bride to Ramsay and under the circumstances in the show, her danger has excellerated expedentially.

This isn't the real world; the dangers she's in will only have whatever consequences the showrunners want them to have.

[A Ghost of Someone]

This isn't the real world; the dangers she's in will only have whatever consequences the showrunners want them to have.

That we agree on and with that, the fact that she is supposed to be the protagonist, does not really mean squat if the showrunners decide it is time for her to die and by who and what motive.

[Colonel Green]

That we agree on and with that, the fact that she is supposed to be the protagonist, does not really mean squat if the showrunners decide it is time for her to die and by who and what motive.

They've said repeatedly that the characters' resolutions, etc., will be the same.  Now, they've made often considerable changes to the plots getting there, which in turn has real effects on the story and characters, but that's not the same thing as just completely altering the ending.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

They've said repeatedly that the characters' resolutions, etc., will be the same.  Now, they've made often considerable changes to the plots getting there, which in turn has real effects on the story and characters, but that's not the same thing as just completely altering the ending.

Well, to be fair, a character's ending only makes sense when it comes to a that character's journey. You can't slice a part of a character's journey and just patch it up like no big deal. There's character development and plot significance to a character's journey that leads to said character's ending. Not that this matters on GOT.Not to mention the sheer amount of plot-maneuvering they had to go through to get Sansa to Winterfell, like dropping SweetRobin with Bronze Yohn for LOLZ and ignoring Sansa's wedding with Tyrion. Sansa's development in the books is from political pawn to a player, and  staying at the Vale learning courtly intrigue adds to said arc. Having her learning everything by osmosis doesn't really create a consistent character.

Now, of course Sansa will fill up the same ending Book!Sansa will, but it doesn't make any sense. It's like arguing Arya would still have her development post-HOBAW if she had never been to Braavos, which, if I had to bet, is exactly what they'll do to Sansa. 

[Le Cygne]

"It depends what you mean by the end. In addition to many small I have twelve main characters with twelve different endings, and not all of these will have the same end on TV as in the books. But David and Dan and I have had several discussions around this over the years, and they know the main outlines of the story. So I suppose it is the same person who is going to sit on the iron throne eventually."

http://p3.no/filmpolitiet/2015/06/na-kan-det-bli-darlig-stemning/

[A Ghost of Someone]

They've said repeatedly that the characters' resolutions, etc., will be the same.  Now, they've made often considerable changes to the plots getting there, which in turn has real effects on the story and characters, but that's not the same thing as just completely altering the ending.

We can argue this all day and night but the truth is simply that I do not have any confidence in Sansa's story on the show, nor do I think she will have the same ending. Death, yes, I think she dies in both but the story that happens to her on the path to that end matters.

[Wilnova]

They've said repeatedly that the characters' resolutions, etc., will be the same.  Now, they've made often considerable changes to the plots getting there, which in turn has real effects on the story and characters, but that's not the same thing as just completely altering the ending.

It's rather clear that a few of the characters will have different endings to those in the books considering that their stories are taking different paths. I would say that so far Jon, Dany, Arya and Bran are heading to the same ending considering that they are strictly following their story arcs from the books. Sansa maybe heading for a completely different ending. Then there's this:

In one intriguing new wrinkle, Martin says he just came up with a big, revealing twist on a long-time character that he never previously considered. “This is going to drive your readers crazy,” he teases, “but I love it. I’m still weighing whether to go that direction or not. It’s a great twist. It’s easy to do things that are shocking or unexpected, but they have to grow out of characters. They have to grow out of situations. Otherwise, it’s just being shocking for being shocking. But this is something that seems very organic and natural, and I could see how it would happen. And with the various three, four characters involved… it all makes sense. But it’s nothing I’ve ever thought of before. And it’s nothing they can do in the show, because the show has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it, where in my case I have not made those decisions.”

Characters like Sansa grew out of the telling of the tale. It's clear from the original old, outline that GRRM had no clear ending for her and that her story grew out of her situations as he explains above. With the show significantly changing the story arcs, it is possible we can get different endings for different characters.

It's telling that they put Jaime and Brienne back into their AFfC arc after a little diversion. Maybe that AFfC meeting between them has some significance to their plot.

Sansa in the North in the whole Stannis/Theon/Boltons/Northern Lords/Jon/Wildlings plot muddles her arc rather terribly. I don't see how her book character gets involved in any of that.

[Grail King]

I would agree LF clearly does not have the influence to get the Vale forces to openly attack the Starks, perhaps if Rickon was revealed then he could claim he was an imposter and that he was fighting for Sansa as the actual heir.

That is assuming LF takes the Vale forces to the north at all, the whole plan might just have been an idea to get Cersei on side and perhaps cover something else entirely, maybe attacking Kings Landing or the Lannisters elsewhere?

I'm sure A big ass direwolf would prove the truth.

[Wilnova]

http://p3.no/filmpolitiet/2015/06/na-kan-det-bli-darlig-stemning/

I am curious as to who GRRM's 12 main characters are. Maybe:

Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, Sansa, Sam, Theon, Davos, Jaime, Cersei and Brienne?

Would LF be considered a main character?

[Wilnova]

http://p3.no/filmpolitiet/2015/06/na-kan-det-bli-darlig-stemning/

I am curious as to who GRRM's 12 main characters are. Maybe:

Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, Sansa, Sam, Theon, Davos, Jaime, Cersei and Brienne?

Would LF be considered a main character?

[Alayne's Shadow.]

 

Sansa in the North in the whole Stannis/Theon/Boltons/Northern Lords/Jon/Wildlings plot muddles her arc rather terribly. I don't see how her book character gets involved in any of that.

I'm not sure we can bring spoilers from season 6 to this discussion, but if you've been following the spoilers and read Alayne II from Feast and Alayne I from Winds, it's quite possible to think of the part where book!Sansa and show!Sansa might meet - Which is not to say they necessarily will. But I don't think it's spoilery to say that Sansa and LF will meet again in the show, and that Sansa survives this year.