TheLightning Lord

Winds update (not a blog)

472 posts in this topic

Oh, come on.

The show could have gotten two seasons out of Dance and Feast. They just didn't want to: that's why they cut many important plots.

Seriously, rant all you want, but "nothing" happens in those books?

Siege of Riverrun with annoying Freys
Stannis' campaign
Northern Conspiracy
Sam in Braavos
Jon making the Wildlings cross the Wall
"death things in the water"
The Kingsmoot
Greyjoys attacking the Reach
Victarion travelling to Meereen
Dany facing battle to Meereen and Yunkai
Tyrion meeting the Griffs
Tyrion being kidnapped
Tyrion being part of a sellsword company
Quentyn meeting Dany
Quentyn "taming" a Dragon
Barristan preparing Meereen for battle.
Aegon landing in the Stormlands
Griffs taking the Stormlands
Arianne's plot to crown Myrcella

And that's just the parts they decided to not include.

You thought those parts were not interesting enough? Then it was THEIR JOB to make them appealing for tv audiences.

Really, that's enough material for two years, and I'm sure Martin actually thought so. D&d just didn't bother.

 

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Can we not turn this thread into a show ranting thread and stay on topic?

Thank you.

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I think there's a decent chance we'll get another book in this series, but the odds of a completion by GRRM are very low.

The best thing GRRM could do if he wants to complete the series would be to hire a co-writer who will do the drudgework of putting words to paper based on GRRM's ideas.  GRRM could act as the supervisor.

More realistic, though, is that another author is simply hired to complete the series "later".

Anyway, I am basically OK with this outcome. In general I think the show has been better than the books (particularly for AFFC/ADWD, but to some degree even for ASOS and ACOK) and, given that D&D have the outlines of the remaining plot, it'll be nice to have the story completed in this format.

 

 

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You thought those parts were not interesting enough? Then it was THEIR JOB to make them appealing for tv audiences.

Really, that's enough material for two years, and I'm sure Martin actually thought so. D&d just didn't bother.

It's the 10-episode format.  They have to keep up the momentum of the overall story.

i.e. The Walking Dead can get away with stretching out its source material cause it's an infinitely cheaper show to make.  GoT has to tell a complete story while HBO still has the money to make it happen.

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why don't you throw pacing in there for good measure? ;) 

visually tyrions journey and dialogue would have been good on a show during the boat trip. People like things done well tho and I doubt d&d are capable. 

Yes, that would have made a nice 90 second scene. What do you do for the rest of the season? 

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Well, they did include Tyrion's journey - by coupling him with Varys and Jorah.  It was, IMHO, significantly better than what transpired in ADWD.

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Well, they did include Tyrion's journey - by coupling him with Varys and Jorah.  It was, IMHO, significantly better than what transpired in ADWD.

Well, now who is going to order the little birds of Kings Landing to kill Pycelle and Kevan with Varys now in Essos?

And the show does a funny, non-explanitory, flip flop of Ilyrio and Varys and their intended plans for Viserys and Danerys. It was like in the end Varys was just trying to explain the years of spying on and plotting against Dany with a "sike!" explanation.

They could have done Tyrion on the show much like they did without omitting key characters and future plot lines that have a meaning to the end.

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Well, now who is going to order the little birds of Kings Landing to kill Pycelle and Kevan with Varys now in Essos?

I suspect they will be killed by Cersei and UnGregor.

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A note about Quentin Martell. We don't know the consequences of his story just yet.

Oberyn Martell's story wasn't terribly long either, but no one is complaining about George including him in the story.

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Oh, come on.

The show could have gotten two seasons out of Dance and Feast. They just didn't want to: that's why they cut many important plots.

Seriously, rant all you want, but "nothing" happens in those books?

Siege of Riverrun with annoying Freys
Stannis' campaign
Northern Conspiracy
Sam in Braavos
Jon making the Wildlings cross the Wall
"death things in the water"
The Kingsmoot
Greyjoys attacking the Reach
Victarion travelling to Meereen
Dany facing battle to Meereen and Yunkai
Tyrion meeting the Griffs
Tyrion being kidnapped
Tyrion being part of a sellsword company
Quentyn meeting Dany
Quentyn "taming" a Dragon
Barristan preparing Meereen for battle.
Aegon landing in the Stormlands
Griffs taking the Stormlands
Arianne's plot to crown Myrcella

And that's just the parts they decided to not include.

You thought those parts were not interesting enough? Then it was THEIR JOB to make them appealing for tv audiences.

Really, that's enough material for two years, and I'm sure Martin actually thought so. D&d just didn't bother.

 

I agree with all of that. There was loads of material in all the books that could have been adapted. Clash could have been two seasons as well.

This is karma for being smug about spoilers to friends who only watched the show. Now I'm going to be the one with my eyes shut tight and fingers in my ears. 

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AT least it will be out this year......:(

Nope.  Sorry.  No such promise was made or implied.

Edited by ChillyPolly

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Oh, come on.

The show could have gotten two seasons out of Dance and Feast. They just didn't want to: that's why they cut many important plots.

Seriously, rant all you want, but "nothing" happens in those books?

Siege of Riverrun with annoying Freys
Stannis' campaign
Northern Conspiracy
Sam in Braavos
Jon making the Wildlings cross the Wall
"death things in the water"
The Kingsmoot
Greyjoys attacking the Reach
Victarion travelling to Meereen
Dany facing battle to Meereen and Yunkai
Tyrion meeting the Griffs
Tyrion being kidnapped
Tyrion being part of a sellsword company
Quentyn meeting Dany
Quentyn "taming" a Dragon
Barristan preparing Meereen for battle.
Aegon landing in the Stormlands
Griffs taking the Stormlands
Arianne's plot to crown Myrcella

And that's just the parts they decided to not include.

You thought those parts were not interesting enough? Then it was THEIR JOB to make them appealing for tv audiences.

Really, that's enough material for two years, and I'm sure Martin actually thought so. D&d just didn't bother.

 

Agreed all the way.  There was so much more room for HBO, Big and Little Griff could have added a lot, the Martells as well. I am constantly dumbfounded by the cuts.

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But I'm just saying, you don't start something and keep doing it for two decades without being invested in finishing it. He could have quit writing asoiaf at any point during that time period, or he could have submitted inferior work asap over the years just to collect a paycheck, or he could have hired a ghost writer to finish it for him and taken credit. Yet he refuses to do any of that, and insists on writing everything himself. I don't see how one can have that type of dedication to something for so long and not want to finish it. He did not sound happy at all in the blog post, and doesn't sound like someone who is content to about putting off something that everybody is looking forward to. The man cares a great deal about his work. He's going to see this through to the end and won't phone it in along the way.

But that's just it. He does not seem to be showing the same interest and devotion to ASOIAF, that he is to his other, newer ventures. Apparently Wild cards is in his blood but not ASOIAF. He's already mentioned that he is bored with something when he knows the ending. He could write or submit inferior work, but that would mean losing the adulation of his millions of fans and as we know those fans can be savage. Book purists already throw vitriol and insults on Benioff and Weiss, on this forum, for daring to make changes to an adaption. That anger would shift to GRRM and would not be nice for someone who loves adulation from the crowd. I don't think he would hire a ghost writer to finish either. To do that, one needs an awareness of one's work ethics (Or writing pace in this case) and he does not seem to be aware that he has procrastination issues. Plus it would mean admitting defeat, and I don't think he would do that either.

Look at JK Rowling, who shut herself up in a country house and committed herself to finishing the books so that the movies would not overtake the books. She did not let it come to that. That's dedication.

   Seriously, rant all you want,

Isn't that what folks do all the day, everyday, in the Rant and Rave thread?

    Siege of Riverrun with annoying Freys :

Probably being done this season.

  Stannis' campaign :

They did this.

Northern Conspiracy : they are probably doing it next season
Sam in Braavos : Not necessary, adds nothing to the plot
Jon making the Wildlings cross the Wall : He brought them back from Hardhome
"death things in the water" : Hardhome
The Kingsmoot : Maybe next season
Greyjoys attacking the Reach : Expensive to do on the show since they have to introduce another locality and new characters
Victarion travelling to Meereen : We will probably get some version of an Iron born characters traveling to meet Dany next season

The show is going to increasingly spend their time and money in the North since that's where the important story is going to occur. So if they have to spend time and money on the North or on  Greyjoys attacking the Reach, they are going to spend it on the north. Hence Sansa getting shucked to the North and all that budget and focus for Hardhome as opposed to Dorne. It's all about managing time, money and expectations.

The rest of the stuff you suggested is exactly the kind of subplots that can be cut to make the story more concise and streamlined to fit into 10 episodes and a TV budget. Pretty much the best decision the show-runners made was separating the show from the books a bit. The show is a lot more concise and to the point. And it's exactly because of those subplots that GRRM is taking decades to finish those stories. David and Dan don't have that luxury of traveling and going to cons and procrastinating. They work round the clock to deliver a finished product to HBO by April. The actors are getting older and want to move on to other projects. Bran looks like he is 20 right now. The producers just want to tell the main story in seven seasons and move on. I am glad that they are giving us something instead of a word for word adaption of GRRM's ponderous tome.

Edited by Wilnova

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I don't want to get wrapped up in angry, heated discussion, so I'm just gonna leave my two-cents and then that'll be it.

hate seeing the sentence "when the final season of GoT comes out, Martin won't have any motivation to finish the series." Or something like "We'll never get ADOS, the show will spoil everything, boo hoo." First of all, get over yourself. Second, it's like the person who says things like this misses the whole point of ASOIAF.

Cause it's not about the destination, it's about the journey. What makes Ned's death profound isn't that he died, its that we spent a whole book getting to know this decent man trying his best, only to see him fail and fall. That's what makes the re-reads so much fun, is because they are genuinely fun books to read, even when you know everything that's going to happen.

If all you take away from ASOIAF is "wen iz duh next buk gona bee owt? whoo diez?" then I feel profoundly sorry for you. If spoilers are such a bane to your existence then stop watching the show and separate yourself from the fan community. Move on, get a job or something, Idk.

Point is, stop being melodramatic babies. The books will be finished eventually, later rather then sooner since apparently Martin is a slow writer. Whoopty doo. As I recall, an analysis about his writing speed that was released a few years ago indicated that TWOW would probably be finished by 2016/2017. It's not the end of the world. And yes, ADOS will eventually be published too. I'll admit, I'm skeptical if we'll ever see "Fire & Blood" the in-depth Targ history book, but you can't win them all.

So let's all be adults and devote ourselves to doing what fans should do, be fans of the things they claim to love. Talking theories, drawing fanart, and writing fanfiction are all good outlets. If that makes you sad, then look into other things. Check out some other influences on Martin. I for one can testify that the history Martin bases his opus on is an amazing story in its own right.

Bottom line, lets just not be jerks about this, okay?

 

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Look at JK Rowling, who shut herself up in a country house and committed herself to finishing the books so that the movies would not overtake the books. She did not let it come to that. That's dedication.

What an absurd notion. You cannot force yourself to write if the words don't come. It has absolutely nothing to do with dedication. Shutting yourself up might work for some but for many it won't. Secondly, the comparison is quite ludicrous and completely non-analogous.

 

 

 It's all about managing time, money and expectations.

And this has come at the cost of quality and well...common sense. Half the things in the show doesn't even make sense anymore. They're not even bothering to explain stuff anymore because imbeciles seem to lap it up anyway. A bit of gore here and there, some tits and arse and they milk in the money.

Edited by Ser Eric

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So let's all be adults and devote ourselves to doing what fans should do, be fans of the things they claim to love. Talking theories, drawing fanart, and writing fanfiction are all good outlets.

 

The last of these is loathed by the author, has been compared to actual despicable crime by some among his vicars on earth I need not bother naming, and would doubtless be suppressed by him legally if possible.

I think the comparison with Rowling is a sadly useful one - she (with the odd exception of that Harry Potter Lexicon litigation) has been encouraging to and inclusive of her fans' enthusiasms, recognising that she owes them transformation from relative hardship to extreme, miraculous affluence, and not seeing it as her place to police them. She also wrote them their books (and indeed Pottermore).

In contrast to this generosity of approach, Martin seems reluctant either to cede / share imaginative terrain, even with lovestruck not for profit amateurs, or himself to perform. He has instead taken the more limited step of ceding increasing aspects of his actual professional performance to a telly company and particular superfans. I think there's a connection. When you create a vast world and hoard power over it, it becomes too much, a claustrophobic personal burden.

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If we actually really would follow the show, we would think Sansa was Ramsay's victim and Barristan would die without doing anything useful, Mance would have dead before he helped Jon, .... 

... 

which did not happen in the book. 

And by bringing the Northern rebellion only now in the show they completely destroyed a major factor of the rebellion. A lot of the Northmen did fight for Stannis because they wanted to save Ned's girl. Now in the show the Northern Lords only care about not paying taxes which is understandable but not the same as their loyalty for their late Lord's daughter. 

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