Rant and Rave Without Repercussions - Includes Season 6 Spoilers

[HairGrowsBack]

6 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

She's such a different character, she was torn up about Nimble Dick. That was woven into the narrative, her noticing this poor guy who felt such belonging to a place that sadly forgot him, and when he was killed, she said this is his place. Can you even for a moment imagine Brienne the Brute noticing he was shivering in the cold (his vulnerability)? That's really sad that they wiped this wonderful character out completely, Brienne is a great loss to the story.

And she feels guilty about not trusting him, when she's been betrayed and threatened by men her entire life, and is justified in not trusting others easily. But she still tells him "I'm sorry I've never trusted you", and still gives him three golden dragons (aka a lot of money), even though he's dead, because Brienne is better than everyone else and their mothers.

Also, she feels even guilty for killing Shagwell and co, even though they were absolutely irredeemable monsters who tried to rape her on multiple occasions. She still feels bad, because that's who she is. Beautiful Cinnamon Roll Too Good For This World, Too Pure

[Le Cygne]

Filming spoiler on reddit, he took it down, but apparently Larry is straight Team Carol (holding a Lannister banner), fighting alongside the Freys (episode 9). So much for character development...

[Le Cygne]

10 hours ago, HairGrowsBack said:

Beautiful Cinnamon Roll Too Good For This World, Too Pure

I don't know, she was having some pretty impure thoughts about Jaime.

I guess if I could only use one word to describe her, it would be nice. Seems lame, but she is. Not too bright! And stubborn. She has her flaws. But she's a nice person. Wish I could say the same about...

[Tijgy]

5 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

I don't know, she was having some pretty impure thoughts about Jaime.

 Haha. 

[HairGrowsBack]

2 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

I don't know, she was having some pretty impure thoughts about Jaime.

I guess if I could only use one word to describe her, it would be nice. Seems lame, but she is. Not too bright! And stubborn. She has her flaws. But she's a nice person. Wish I could say the same about...

You're right, scratch that. ^^

Yes I would definitely say kind, and sweet  too. I think she's actually pretty smart, just not the kind of "smart" we're used too (ie Tyrion, LF,...). She's not politically savy and she's a bit naïve, but she's not stupid. Jaime himself says so She could tell the man at the inn was cheating them, she has combat intelligence, and some nice retort. She's fine.

Your last point : I just pretend the show characters don't exist. It pains me that it's the only image of them a lot of people have.

[Ruhail]

30 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Filming spoiler on reddit, he took it down, but apparently Larry is straight Team Carol (holding a Lannister banner), fighting alongside the Freys (episode 9). So much for character development...

[Le Cygne]

17 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

You're right, scratch that. ^^

Yes I would definitely say kind, and sweet  too. I think she's actually pretty smart, just not the kind of "smart" we're used too (ie Tyrion, LF,...). She's not politically savy and she's a bit naïve, but she's not stupid. Jaime himself says so She could tell the man at the inn was cheating them, she has combat intelligence, and some nice retort. She's fine.

Your last point : I just pretend the show characters don't exist. It pains me that it's the only image of them a lot of people have.

Well, Jaime is a wee bit taken with her. She's not stupid, but not terribly quick to pick things up. She's a slow and steady wins the race sort. She takes it all in and eventually gets there, but when she does get there, she really gets there. I prefer that sort to the ones who think they know it all. They miss a lot, and never really do see the light. She has empathy, too. That helps her figure things out.

[Dolorous Gabe]

I like to think Brienne is very similar to Dunk. Not the brightest but absolutely devoted to the ideals of the "true knight."

 

Show!Brienne is very different.

[Le Cygne]

2 minutes ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

I like to think Brienne is very similar to Dunk. Not the brightest but absolutely devoted to the ideals of the "true knight."

 

Show!Brienne is very different.

Yes, that's a good comparison. Book Brienne would have taken in that Sandor and Arya were comfortable around each other, that she was safe, or as safe as one could be in those circumstances, and that he took pride in looking after Arya. She would have seen something of herself in Sandor.

[HairGrowsBack]

21 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Well, Jaime is a wee bit taken with her. She's not stupid, but not terribly quick to pick things up. She's a slow and steady wins the race sort. She takes it all in and eventually gets there, but when she does get there, she really gets there. I prefer that sort to the ones who think they know it all. They miss a lot, and never really do see the light. She has empathy, too. That helps her figure things out.

Agreed. And knowing everybody's been telling her she's stupid her entire life, it's a wonder she manages to do that at all.

 

Just now, Le Cygne said:

Yes, that's a good comparison. Book Brienne would have taken in that Sandor and Arya were comfortable around each other, that she was safe, or as safe as one could be in those circumstances, and that he took pride in looking after Arya. She would have seen something of herself in Sandor.

And even if she hadn't , she wouldn't have fought, in front of a child, the person said child believes is a protector.

[TepidHands]

According to the Wiki here (and I trust Elio and Linda to keep to canon) Book!Brienne is just six years older than Sansa; she's still very young. Gwen Christie is 37. While she's great casting as far as the physicality of the part, writing and directing her as naive seems to make her come off as thick as a castle wall  -- IMHO of course.

 

 

[Étoile du Soir]

On 11/2/2016 at 7:24 PM, HairGrowsBack said:

Your last point : I just pretend the show characters don't exist. It pains me that it's the only image of them a lot of people have.

Well. Heaven forbid that D&D's enlightened subordination of hero to plot involvement should allow for such a delineation of complementary passages to eventually find its way on to the screen: 

Quote

"Tarth is called The Sapphire Isle, a maiden told me once." 

-- Jaime III, ASoS

 

Quote

"Tarth is called the Sapphire Isle. Send Podrick with my bones to Evenfall and you’ll have sapphires, silver, whatever you want.”

-- Brienne VIII, AFfC

There has to be a sequential conjunction of similitude, in all its forms and manifestations, there can be no gaps, and to assure that, within the context of the story, there are overlaps. But D&D don't get that, nor we do we in turn get (pun intended) this set of references, of course:

Quote

Brienne turned the rudder toward the shore. "I'll leave no innocents to be food for crows."

[...]

The wench was staring up at one of the dead women. Jaime shuffled closer with small stutter steps, the only kind the foot-long chain permitted. When he saw the crude sign hung about the neck of the highest corpse, he smiled. "They Lay With Lions," he read. "Oh, yes, woman, this was most unchivalrously done... but by your side, not mine. I wonder who they were, these women?"

-- Jaime I, ASoS

 

Quote

"Aye," added the one-eyed man. "The Kingslayer's whore."

She flinched. "Why would you call me that?"

"If I had a silver stag for every time you said his name, I'd be as rich as your friends the Lannisters."

"That was only... you do not understand..."

"Don't we, though?" The big man laughed. "I think we might. There's a stink of lion about you, lady."

-- Brienne VIII, AFfC

Safe to say, and so in my understanding, we can all agree that the complexity of A Song of Ice and Fire is such that each character, conversation, and situation seems to reflect on other moments in the text, except that the careful structuring of multiple narrative strands turns into the tones of the stage, which is entirely appropriate to both a piece that allows the reader to ponder the correspondence with full intelligence, and to a sequence of events that begin to alter through the connections that emerge. 

And yet, however interesting the fictional context, Game of Thrones is eminently less concerned with confronting the moral and emotional dilemmas that face the characters in the books at all, let alone in any manner suited to drawing the audience into revisiting the action and revising their assumptions accordingly, than with representing characters who arrive from off-stage, bursting upon the viewer (in the case of LF, who was, in the abiding tradition of the series, nowhere to be seen following his conversation with Olenna) or, worse still, failing to materialize in time (Lady Stoneheart.) But hey, in their defense, we are clearly meant to deduce from the pattern hereby established that Brienne's execution of Stannis was thus conceived to reflect upon her bloody encounter with Sandor (who sought to help both Sansa and Arya), which does reflect upon her earlier slaying of Robb Stark's men, which...nah...whatever. 

On 11/2/2016 at 7:03 PM, Le Cygne said:

Filming spoiler on reddit, he took it down, but apparently Larry is straight Team Carol (holding a Lannister banner), fighting alongside the Freys (episode 9). So much for character development...

Once again, Larry the Lunkhead is forced into the passive role of Carol's lapdog. This gives me life... 

[Tijgy]

2 minutes ago, Étoile du Soir said:

And yet, however interesting the fictional context, Game of Thrones is eminently less concerned with confronting the moral and emotional dilemmas that face the characters in the books at all, let alone in any manner suited to drawing the audience into revisiting the action and revising their assumptions accordingly, than with representing characters who arrive from off-stage, bursting upon the viewer (in the case of LF, who was, in the abiding tradition of the series, nowhere to be seen following his conversation with Olenna) or, worse still, failing to materialize at all (Lady Stoneheart.) But hey, in their defense, we are clearly meant to deduce from the pattern hereby established that Brienne's execution of Stannis was was thus conceived to reflect upon her bloody encounter with Sandor (who sought to help both Sansa and Arya), which does reflect upon her earlier slaying of Robb Stark's men, which...nah...whatever. 

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

Nicely written

 

I want to see Jaime burning Cersei's letter. I want him to be free from her manipulation, her games, ...

[Ruhail]

1 minute ago, Tijgy said:

Nicely written

 

I want to see Jaime burning Cersei's letter. I want him to be free from her manipulation, her games, ...

Don't we all? 

[Étoile du Soir]

On 11/2/2016 at 8:22 PM, Tijgy said:

Nicely written

 

I want to see Jaime burning Cersei's letter. I want him to be free from her manipulation, her games, ...

Thank you! Just to clarify, though, you'd much rather Jaime were free, as in Stannis!free? Because I do not know that might pose such a tremendous problem to D&D...

(Also, lest we should forget, Sansa, too.)

[TepidHands]

11 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

Don't we all? 

I'd settle for him burning Cersei. 

[Étoile du Soir]

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

Well, Jaime is a wee bit taken with her. She's not stupid, but not terribly quick to pick things up. She's a slow and steady wins the race sort. She takes it all in and eventually gets there, but when she does get there, she really gets there. I prefer that sort to the ones who think they know it all. They miss a lot, and never really do see the light. She has empathy, too. That helps her figure things out.

Oh, to be sure, there are moments when she seems the best poised to grasp a situation, just so, to rival Catelyn at her own game, whom I regard as one of the sharpest tools in the shed, if I may be permitted the statement. She's quite astute, too, after a fashion:

Quote

'That was the brush of Lord Tywin's fingertip, my lady," the girl said. "He is probing, feeling for a weak point, an undefended crossing. if he does not find one, he will curl all his fingers into a fist and try and make one." Brienne hunched her shoulders. "That's what I'd do. Were I him.'

-- Catelyn VI, ACoK

Brienne the Battle Commander!

(As a footnote, what battles had Tywin won, that Robb should have fled under his gaze...)

[Le Cygne]

Still thinking about that spoiler, whatever happened to HIS OATH? And this is TWOW territory? Even if they are rehashing AFFC and ADWD, he's way past that.

Quote

They'd all done a deal of vowing back in that cell, Jaime most of all. That was Lady Catelyn's price for loosing him. She had laid the point of the big wench's sword against his heart and said, "Swear that you will never again take up arms against Stark nor Tully. Swear that you will compel your brother to honor his pledge to return my daughters safe and unharmed. Swear on your honor as a knight, on your honor as a Lannister, on your honor as a Sworn Brother of the Kingsguard. Swear it by your sister's life, and your father's, and your son's, by the old gods and the new, and I'll send you back to your sister. Refuse, and I will have your blood." He remembered the prick of the steel through his rags as she twisted the point of the sword.

Right here, at the end. He's about to take his vow, when she calls for the sword (by the way, they snuck in another "beast" reference there, if only they would tell the story):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpD47mmlei4

Oh, my, and could they get over their fixation about Catelyn hating Jon Snow already. I'm surprised they don't bring back LSH just to have her murder Jon Snow.

[Étoile du Soir]

I'd wager that Goldenhand the Just is to Brienne what the Kingslayer was to Cersei. Where does Larry the Lunkhead fit in all of this, I wonder. Just an impediment to the narrative imperatives of boobs and violence (and Cersei being Carol...)

Jaime, in Feast, also thought to himself, that I recall, while treating with the Blackfish: "It was on his tongue to talk of Brienne..."

And, based on available information, he seems destined to play second fiddle to Bronn while cavorting across the Riverlands, too. Watch Porne on a loop, and all that jazz...  

[Le Cygne]

2 minutes ago, Étoile du Soir said:

And, based on available information, he seems destined to play second fiddle to Bronn while cavorting across the Riverlands, too. Watch Porne on a loop and all that jazz...  

Oh, no, why. NCW is so funny. Jaime is funny. But he'll be the straight man to Bronn. It's going to be the Bronn Show.

Maybe Tyene will chase Bronn naked across the Riverlands, demanding that he admit her bad pussy is beautiful.