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How long was Theon supposed to stay at Winterfell?


Adam Targaryen

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Hello, non-bookreader here. So at the beginning of AGOT, Theon is a ward and hostage to the Stark family, a sort of insurance that Balon won't rebel again because Ned has his son and heir. But if I remember correctly, Theon is like 18 at this point. Shouldn't he have gone home to his father when he became a man or something? Will he have to stay with the Starks as a hostage until Balon dies so they'll know for sure he doesn't start another rebellion? Seeing it from Balon's POV: What's the point of having a son and heir if you can't raise him yourself and make sure he'll become a strong leader of the Greyjoys? Why would Balon care what happens to Theon if he's going to stay with the Starks until Balon dies? We know that Theon has "grown weak" according to Balon and Aeron during his years with the Starks, and he's not really an ironborn anymore. Imagine how weak and unfitting he would've become had he stayed at Winterfell for another ten years or so? My point here is that Theon is of no value to Balon if he can never get his hands on him before he dies, so therefore Balon should've either started another rebellion or requested that he get his son back at some point. Also, was Ned planning on having him around for another thirty years if that's what it took for Balon to die?

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The only weird part about it, for me, was that Theon hadn't been married yet. He'd have stayed a hostage of the Starks until Balon died, and hopefully the Iron Throne would have had a "greenland" sympathetic Quellon type as the Lord of Pyke. Granted, there probably still would have been a challenge from Balon's brothers, but I figured Theon would have been instilled with the weight of the crown behind him. It's just weird that he wasn't even betrothed yet (then again, neither was Robb. I think Eddard was more than a little stupid about this). His claim could have been much more solid if he was bringing back himself AND an heir (even if the Ironborn saw him as soft, again, IT support.)

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(Looking from a sane man's perspective, which arguably could be a methodological mistake concerning Balon Greyjoy...) Even if Lord Reaper of Pyke didn't care for his only remaining son, he couldn't afford to show that. He was the chief shithead head of the Greyjoy family, and as such he had obligations to protect his kin. See Tywin and Tyrion: Lord Tywin absolutely despised his youngest, but when Lady Stark snatched the Imp at the Crossroads Inn, Tywin went bananas (are there bananas in Westeros? nvm).

So, if Balon demonstrates that feudal obligations mean shit to him, who's to say his lords are going to follow him? In the name of what rules, what laws, what values should they obey him? So, Balon should have at least acted as if he cared.

35 minutes ago, The Snow Bear said:

Well I don't think that Theon could have been married without Ballons consent and I can't imagine Ballon giving any consent with Theon staying a "ward" at Winterfell

I don't imagine anybody bothering to ask for his consent, and the lack of it never invalidated any marriage.

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Theon was 19, and Westerosi men come of age at 16. Hence he can make decisions about his life without parental approval.

I'm not sure if this has any bearing on marriage, though - Tyrion married Tysha without his father's consent at 13 (but then, the Septon was drunk, and as soon as he sobered up he dobbed them in, and the marriage was declared invalid when Tywin expressed his disapproval ). Joffrey married Margaery at 13, with the consent of his mother. and was betrothed to Sansa at twelve, at his father's insistence.

I would think that Theon could have married if he had wished, and that his guardian, Eddard Stark, might have arranged a marriage (with only Theon's consent, not Balon's ) any time after Theon turned 13. For someone that is not Ironborn, there is a risk that a father with property might choose to disinherit over the choice of a wife. (and not just a son. as the Hoster Tully /Blackfish feud shows). But in Theon's case, being the oldest surviving male son of Balon doesn't mean he necessarily inherits his father's rank or lands.

Plus, with Asha being married-by-proxy on her uncle's whim, without her knowledge, let alone consent, I doubt Iron Isles marriage customs are stricter than Northern ones.

OP: I think Eddard and Catelyn knew to keep Theon for as long as Balon Greyjoy was Lord of the Iron Isles.

Robb figured Theon could be trusted to act as an envoy to the Iron Isles, because he had no idea that Theon's father was a complete lunatic that was only deterred from attacking Westeros generally and the North especially because to do so would effectively make him a kinslayer - as it would force Eddard to kill Theon. Even then, it was probably the predictable reactions of  Aeron, Asha, Lady Alannys, and his bannermen that restrained him, rather than a love for Theon. 

Robb had no idea that Balon had an implacable hatred for the North and the Starks, would never share their cause, and would make Theon his little bitch; he never dreamt Theon would submit to him. Catelyn knew better than to trust Theon or suppose the Ironborn would be of any use to them, or anyone. I'm guessing she had met Balon once. Once would be enough.

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On 4/23/2016 at 8:01 PM, Melisandre's White Pubes said:

I imagine Theon would have been strongly encouraged to marry someone friendly to the Starks as Balon grew older, and once he fathered an heir, Theon could be sent back to the Iron Islands while his son was "fostered" by the Starks or other friendly family.

That seems pretty shaky though. If Theon is allowed to bring his wife with him to the Iron Islands and they have more kids...I have my doubts that Theon would care enough about a child he has little to no relationship with. If Balon can treat Theon the way that he did after already knowing him and interacting with him as his father for ten years, I can easily see Theon going down a similar path. 

I suppose maybe if he and his wife had multiple heirs and they all stayed at Winterfell and the North in addition to the wife staying there but it sounds like a pretty miserable arrangement. 

I don't really see how any plan where Theon returns home works out in the favor of the mainlanders or even Theon really. If Balon had been a different person, I guess it would be possible but then if he were a different/better/smarter person, Theon would never have had to be a hostage in the first place. 

I've never understood how a Theon/Sansa match looks good on paper. If they had been sent back to the Iron Islands as husband and wife, it would just make Sansa a hostage. If they stay at Winterfell, I don't see how Theon would ever be the Lord of Pyke in anything but name. 

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I think that whatever it was "supposed to be" it got extended. Theon is of the drowned god.  He was promised to be returned at a point and was not. A broken promise,  pertaining to a"prince".

Theon is the prince that was promised and that promise was broken. That's why the others are pissed. 

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Well, what's interesting to me is I believe Ned intends to tell Cat to keep Theon close once he Sherlocks the incest in KL near his end in AGOT (someone correct me if I'm wrong).  This is the clearest indication that Theon is meant to be a stick against Balon for as long as possible.  Whether Robert/Jon/Ned considered how long Theon could act as a legitimate stick against Balon is another matter.  And they clearly overestimated how long Balon cared - regardless of Robb's recklessly trusting nature.

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