Who answered from the flames?

[LadyAlisande]

9 minutes ago, robasp2 said:

Not kings blood..

That's a big assumption. We don't know who Varys' parents were. I like the theory that he is somehow descended from a Targaryen bastard, maybe the Blackfyres, maybe someone else (Shiera?).

But anyway we don't know the limitations of blood/fire magic. It's possible you need King's Blood only for the most powerful spells, but any sacrifice will do to contact Rholl'r. It's also possible Mel is wrong (shocking!) and you don't need King's Blood at all, any sacrifice will do for any spell. After all, who is king is kindof arbitrary, isn't it? If Tommen is technically king but he has no Baratheon/Targaryen blood, is his blood still spell-worthy?

[LadyAlisande]

I love this theory about Varys, from Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1eeca9/spoilers_all_a_theory_on_varys_parentage/

I speculate that Varys is the grandson of Aerion "Brightflame" Targaryen. This started when I saw that Varys said he'd been born in Lys. Assuming this is true, here is my proposed timeline with dates taken from the ASOIAF wiki.:

208 AL - Aerion Targaryen is exiled to Lys where he fathered at least one child.

232 AL - Aerion drank wildfire and died.

233 AL - King Maekar I died. A Great Council was called to determine succession. The two oldest sons, including Aerion, were already dead. The council noted that Aerion left behind "an infant son" but they pass on the idea of offering the crown to this foreign-born, bastard infant. Instead they offered the crown to Maester Aemon, who famously refused it, and the crown went to King Aegon V.

243 AL - "Mad" King Aerys was born.

248 AL - Aerion's bastard son would have been 16. This seems to be a normal age to father your first child in Westeros/Esso. I propose he fathered at least Varys.

259 AL - Prince Rhaegar is born.

276 AL - King Aerys summoned Varys to court to become his spymaster. If he was born in the range between Aerys and Rhaegar, Varys would have been in his mid-20s.

282-283 AL - Robert's Rebellion. Most known Targaryens die.

300 AL - The events of A Dance With Dragons, which would put Varys in his early 50s.

Supplemental:

Varys says that he was born a slave in Lys. He shaves his head, perhaps to hide a distinctive hair color; there are stories of his great-uncle Aegon doing the same. Also, Aerion once physically threatened to castrate his brother Aegon; it would be ironic if Aerion's grandson suffered just this fate. On that note: Varys' castration was a blood magic ritual, similar to what Melisandre's been trying to do with "king's blood." This might also hint at his royal lineage. Perhaps it wasn't for magic at all; perhaps castration was simply to put an end to yet another "splinter" Targaryen dynasty. I also think that "Varys" sounds like a bastardization (no pun intended) of a typical Targaryen name ending in -eris or -erys.

This would explain a lot of his Targaryen loyalist tendencies. But the question of his complicity in sending assassins after Dany in GOT is an unanswered one.

[Gala]

1 hour ago, robasp2 said:

^ this...

I find it hard to believe it was Rhollor.

Besides why does he need a random cock for?

Not kings blood..

Do we know WHO Varys really is?! For all we know, he could be a Blackfyre

I have been so interested about the flames and the voice since I first read it in the books, even created topic about that, but it wasn't popular, unfortunately. And know, when they showed it in the show...
Anyway, I also think, as somebody has already said, that what he heard, changed him and that's the reason he became what he is (I do not mean a eunuch, of course).

[Gala]

58 minutes ago, LadyAlisande said:

I love this theory about Varys, from Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1eeca9/spoilers_all_a_theory_on_varys_parentage/

I speculate that Varys is the grandson of Aerion "Brightflame" Targaryen. This started when I saw that Varys said he'd been born in Lys. Assuming this is true, here is my proposed timeline with dates taken from the ASOIAF wiki.:

208 AL - Aerion Targaryen is exiled to Lys where he fathered at least one child.

232 AL - Aerion drank wildfire and died.

233 AL - King Maekar I died. A Great Council was called to determine succession. The two oldest sons, including Aerion, were already dead. The council noted that Aerion left behind "an infant son" but they pass on the idea of offering the crown to this foreign-born, bastard infant. Instead they offered the crown to Maester Aemon, who famously refused it, and the crown went to King Aegon V.

243 AL - "Mad" King Aerys was born.

248 AL - Aerion's bastard son would have been 16. This seems to be a normal age to father your first child in Westeros/Esso. I propose he fathered at least Varys.

259 AL - Prince Rhaegar is born.

276 AL - King Aerys summoned Varys to court to become his spymaster. If he was born in the range between Aerys and Rhaegar, Varys would have been in his mid-20s.

282-283 AL - Robert's Rebellion. Most known Targaryens die.

300 AL - The events of A Dance With Dragons, which would put Varys in his early 50s.

Supplemental:

Varys says that he was born a slave in Lys. He shaves his head, perhaps to hide a distinctive hair color; there are stories of his great-uncle Aegon doing the same. Also, Aerion once physically threatened to castrate his brother Aegon; it would be ironic if Aerion's grandson suffered just this fate. On that note: Varys' castration was a blood magic ritual, similar to what Melisandre's been trying to do with "king's blood." This might also hint at his royal lineage. Perhaps it wasn't for magic at all; perhaps castration was simply to put an end to yet another "splinter" Targaryen dynasty. I also think that "Varys" sounds like a bastardization (no pun intended) of a typical Targaryen name ending in -eris or -erys.

This would explain a lot of his Targaryen loyalist tendencies. But the question of his complicity in sending assassins after Dany in GOT is an unanswered one.

Nice, thank you!

[LadyAlisande]

So back to the question of the voice in the fire. If it was the voice of Rholl'r, Varys wouldn't have recognized it -- it would've meant nothing to him, unless it said "I am Rholl'r," and even then, would he have believed it?

I like the theory that the voice was terrifying to Varys because he recognized it and could put a name on it. So it could've been his future self, or someone he knew who was dead (his grandfather, Aerion Targaryen?). 

[Smarris]

I believe this is my first post,  so I would love to get your thoughts on this. 

 

 What do you think about the voice in the flames being Bran? I am also not sure when the title of master of  whispers was created, but what if it was in reference to the Siri that the med king went mad because he was hearing "" whispers that turned out to be bran?

[Lady Snow]

Besides why does he need a random cock for?

Not kings blood..

 

Maybe Varys does have kings blood or blood that was considered special, it was done for a reason, not randomly.

[Jon Snow Bengal]

Who cares who it was, it's the message which is important. What did it say? C'mon Red priestess tell us...... please?

[Mystrandir]

I took from that scene the distinct possibility that he heard her voice, Kinvara's, and that's why she seems to upset him so much.

[Mayura]

6 hours ago, Lord Oaf of Highgarden said:

 

It has been mentioned in the show. Does not specify who answered just said a voice answered. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTgiPmG7OLE

 

I meant the show doesn't say how Kinvara knows what happened to teenage Varys

[Good Guy Garlan]

Quaithe? Speaking through a glass candle? Maybe even Quaithe = Kinvara in the show canon. 

[bent branch]

All red priest do fire scrying, that is probably how she knows.

[rocksniffer]

11 hours ago, The Dames do Moan said:

<snip>

Besides physical fighting The conflict will be who is inflicting more damage to the world. I think a dragon invasion may result in more death then a WW invasion. So are they worse? Or are they not? Men were the one destroying the Weirwoods and running the earth so much so that the CotF and the WW had to build a giant wall to keep Man out of the last area in the North still unmolested. Does that make Man the bad guy? The WW seem to be killing everyone they run into without emotion. But what if they are doing it because that's the only way the world will survive? Is it still bad? Idk.

<snip>

FYI...

Quote

History

The Wall was reputedly created over 8,000 years prior to the present setting by Brandon the Builderafter the Long Night to defend the realms of man from the wildlings and Others. Approximately 300 miles in length and 700 feet in height, the Wall is protected by the Night's Watch and according to some, ancient spells and sorcery.^[1] Supposedly, Brandon the Builder had placed his foundations along the heights wherever possible.^[2] Several mentions in the text suggest that the Wall was much smaller at the time, having been built upon by the Night's Watch builders, who quarried huge blocks of ice from frozen lakes in the haunted forest and dragged them south to make the Wall higher, raising it over the centuries to its present size. ~ A Wiki of Ice and Fire: The Wall. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Wall

 

5 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Quaithe? Speaking through a glass candle? Maybe even Quaithe = Kinvara in the show canon. 

interesting...honestly i need to know who quaithe is before i die so this might work for me...

though i really think quaithe is more of a seer than a priestess...i don't think the fire god is anymore important than the lamb god, the horse god, the seven gods or the drowned god....i think she is tapping into the magic awoken when the dragons hatched...throughout the books there are repeated refs to the strengthening of magic spells etc and the objects of magic, like the candles are activated...

but if this is quaithe... then joy, i can check one off the bucket list 

11 hours ago, LadyAlisande said:

I love this theory about Varys, from Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1eeca9/spoilers_all_a_theory_on_varys_parentage/

I speculate that Varys is the grandson of Aerion "Brightflame" Targaryen.

<snip>

10 hours ago, Gala said:

Nice, thank you!

+1...really +101, i fucking love this 

 

[hiemal]

The fact that Kinvara offered to tell Varys the speaker's name argues against it being the Great Other, whose name is not to be spoken. She could be bluffing. On the other hand, being a Priestess of R'hlorr his name would be a bit predictable.

The sacrifice's association with both fire and blood speaks volumes about R'hlorr so I'm voting with that camp.

[Lord Oaf of Highgarden]

11 hours ago, Mayura said:

I meant the show doesn't say how Kinvara knows what happened to teenage Varys

Oh, my apologies! Clearly too keen to provide a youtube link 

[House Cambodia]

R'hllor's colour is red - Fire.

A blue flame = ice, i.e. The Great Other.

[Neds Secret]

23 hours ago, Magog said:

Seriously, this woman wears the same/similar necklace Malissandre has, and we saw what happens when it's taken off. This priestess could be older, because it seems she looks down on Melissandre, like they are not the same level. How does this relate to her knowledge about Varys? Well, could it be that she was the one who made Varys what he is, for whatever reasons. Could she be the old man? IMO, no problems there, these necklaces have shapeshifting powers, rembember Mance. Varys does not know that, and she specifically emphasized that there is much he does not know. 

Varys got the sorcerer that gelded him delivered to the red keep in a crate! That was the good old Varys of the good old days that was dangerous, deadly, deceptive, and mysterious! This Tyrions Cheerleader version of Varys could have also pointed out to notMel that Stannis Witch seemed to not only be wrong about Stannis being Azor Ahai but seemed to not be able to interpret the flames any longer and it seems to be a little odd that just after we discover how fallible Melisandre is we are expected to believe that this new Witch possesses powers and abilities we could not fathom. I'm over the red witches and Rhollor, show Stannis sacrificed everything and recieved fuck all for it, they are pure charlatan, the show can't have it's cake and eat it too, red priestesses either have prophetic abilities or they don't, it feels cheap that one minute they are psychic and the next they are not, whoever answered from the flames either answered or they didn't, my guess is Rhollor , the red God of fire!

[Magog]

10 minutes ago, Neds Secret said:

Varys got the sorcerer that gelded him delivered to the red keep in a crate! That was the good old Varys of the good old days that was dangerous, deadly, deceptive, and mysterious! This Tyrions Cheerleader version of Varys could have also pointed out to notMel that Stannis Witch seemed to not only be wrong about Stannis being Azor Ahai but seemed to not be able to interpret the flames any longer and it seems to be a little odd that just after we discover how fallible Melisandre is we are expected to believe that this new Witch possesses powers and abilities we could not fathom. I'm over the red witches and Rhollor, show Stannis sacrificed everything and recieved fuck all for it, they are pure charlatan, the show can't have it's cake and eat it too, red priestesses either have prophetic abilities or they don't, it feels cheap that one minute they are psychic and the next they are not, whoever answered from the flames either answered or they didn't, my guess is Rhollor , the red God of fire!

I was already reminded of that, but thank you nevertheless. 

Agree with you, but how could she know if she was not there somehow? Rhollor showed it to her - why? I don't get it.

[House Cambodia]

17 hours ago, LadyAlisande said:

I love this theory about Varys, from Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1eeca9/spoilers_all_a_theory_on_varys_parentage/

I speculate that Varys is the grandson of Aerion "Brightflame" Targaryen. This started when I saw that Varys said he'd been born in Lys. Assuming this is true, here is my proposed timeline with dates taken from the ASOIAF wiki.:

208 AL - Aerion Targaryen is exiled to Lys where he fathered at least one child.

232 AL - Aerion drank wildfire and died.

233 AL - King Maekar I died. A Great Council was called to determine succession. The two oldest sons, including Aerion, were already dead. The council noted that Aerion left behind "an infant son" but they pass on the idea of offering the crown to this foreign-born, bastard infant. Instead they offered the crown to Maester Aemon, who famously refused it, and the crown went to King Aegon V.

243 AL - "Mad" King Aerys was born.

248 AL - Aerion's bastard son would have been 16. This seems to be a normal age to father your first child in Westeros/Esso. I propose he fathered at least Varys.

259 AL - Prince Rhaegar is born.

276 AL - King Aerys summoned Varys to court to become his spymaster. If he was born in the range between Aerys and Rhaegar, Varys would have been in his mid-20s.

282-283 AL - Robert's Rebellion. Most known Targaryens die.

300 AL - The events of A Dance With Dragons, which would put Varys in his early 50s.

Supplemental:

Varys says that he was born a slave in Lys. He shaves his head, perhaps to hide a distinctive hair color; there are stories of his great-uncle Aegon doing the same. Also, Aerion once physically threatened to castrate his brother Aegon; it would be ironic if Aerion's grandson suffered just this fate. On that note: Varys' castration was a blood magic ritual, similar to what Melisandre's been trying to do with "king's blood." This might also hint at his royal lineage. Perhaps it wasn't for magic at all; perhaps castration was simply to put an end to yet another "splinter" Targaryen dynasty. I also think that "Varys" sounds like a bastardization (no pun intended) of a typical Targaryen name ending in -eris or -erys.

This would explain a lot of his Targaryen loyalist tendencies. But the question of his complicity in sending assassins after Dany in GOT is an unanswered one.

Great stuff, thanks for sharing. To answer your last question - Varys is batting for False Aegon, who is also from a bastard Targaryen line. Of course he wants to off Dany. If he gives any credence to this Red Priestess, it might really shake him up.

FWIW, I've been positing on other threads that R'hllor is effectively Satan and Azor Ahai the antichrist. I think that is Dany!

[Neds Secret]

2 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Great stuff, thanks for sharing. To answer your last question - Varys is batting for False Aegon, who is also from a bastard Targaryen line. Of course he wants to off Dany. If he gives any credence to this Red Priestess, it might really shake him up.

FWIW, I've been positing on other threads that R'hllor is effectively Satan and Azor Ahai the antichrist. I think that is Dany!

Are you referring to show or books, or both?