The Rose of Highgarden

[Public_Targ]

Why did she hand Olenna that rose? And why did it make Olenna leave? What is Margaery planning, if anything?

[Princess of Ice and Fire]

Oh Margaery is so clever I am sure she has some tricks up her sleeve. Getting her grandmother to safety was important which is why she pulled the rose card. QoT was next on the hit list.

 I really like the Tyrell House Motto

 Growing Strong. 

Might take them a few more generations but I think they have a good chance of landing the Iron Throne if they keep Growing Strong. 

[Not a kneeler]

The sketch of the rose proved to Lady Olenna that Margaery was still a Tyrell and not a convert. She risked it to make her grandmother take seriously her advise to leave while she could. If all your power is in one place you are very susceptible to being overpowered. If Olenna is back in Highgarden she is less likely to fall under the control of the HS. I've got a lot of respect for Margaery this season. The survival of her family has fallen on her shoulders.

[dbunting]

Correct. The HS told basically told Maergery he was going to take Olenna next. So Meargery slipped her the paper to let her know she was safe and that she had to leave the city.

The question is, did the HS test Meargery by doing this?

[Nerevanin]

2 hours ago, dbunting said:

Correct. The HS told basically told Maergery he was going to take Olenna next. So Meargery slipped her the paper to let her know she was safe and that she had to leave the city.

The question is, did the HS test Meargery by doing this?

By what? Practically threatening to kill Olenna? Well, yes probably. Why else would he say it to Margaery? The question is imo what he hoped that he will achieve through this. As Margaery is kind of an ally to him, I suppose that he wants to get rid of Olenna.

[dbunting]

24 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

By what? Practically threatening to kill Olenna? Well, yes probably. Why else would he say it to Margaery? The question is imo what he hoped that he will achieve through this. As Margaery is kind of an ally to him, I suppose that he wants to get rid of Olenna.

By giving her and only her information to see what she would do with it. IF he actually had no intentions on going after Olenna but told Maergery he did, and now all of a sudden Olenna leaves the city it will look fishy, like she was warned.

Think back to what Tyrion did when he was trying to see who was betraying him. He told Pycelle, Littlefinger, and Varys three different versions of the same story to see which one got back to Cersei, therefore showing him who was reporting to Cersei.

 

[littleRickon]

I don't think the "test" applies here. HS threatened to go after Olenna, Marg's grandmother. Does he expect her not to ask her to leave? She openly begs her to leave, in front of Septa Unella. The rose is only to let Olenna know it's part of a plan. But the begging her to leave part was done in all openness. And how could HS fault her for it? She didn't give intel to an enemy. She just told her grandmother it's not very safe. If HS isn't a complete hypocrite he can't fault her for that...

[Lemore]

15 minutes ago, littleRickon said:

I don't think the "test" applies here. HS threatened to go after Olenna, Marg's grandmother. Does he expect her not to ask her to leave? She openly begs her to leave, in front of Septa Unella. The rose is only to let Olenna know it's part of a plan. But the begging her to leave part was done in all openness. And how could HS fault her for it? She didn't give intel to an enemy. She just told her grandmother it's not very safe. If HS isn't a complete hypocrite he can't fault her for that...

Yeah, I took it that the HS was pretty much telling her to get rid of Olenna before he does, kind of a thing?

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

1 hour ago, Nerevanin said:

By what? Practically threatening to kill Olenna? Well, yes probably. Why else would he say it to Margaery? The question is imo what he hoped that he will achieve through this. As Margaery is kind of an ally to him, I suppose that he wants to get rid of Olenna.

I agree, I'm sure HS is smart enough to at least suspect she's acting if he doesn't outright know it.  Having said that, I don't think HS cares if Margaery is sincere or not, as long as she is convincing and gives him the power of the crown.  That's why he's so keen to have her back in bed with Tommen, to keep Tommen in line.  Also he probably reckons a pregnant Margaery would be less likely to take a stand against him.  Lady Oleanna is a threat to HS as she clearly would do anything for Margaery and could be an ally to Cersei, so drop a casual threat and, hey presto, Margaery convinces her to go back to Highgarden.  With Jaime gone too, Cersei is very short on support! I wonder has Kevan done some kind of deal with HS on account of Lancel?

[The Yung Wulf]

I'm thinking that it wasn't a test, but more so reverse psychology. By threatening Olenna, he forced her out of the city, and presumably much of Highgarden's strength with her. HS knows that she's the real leader of House Tyrell, and can safely assume that it was her that gathered the forces that marched on the Sept a few episodes ago during Margery's "walk of atonement." 

[HellasLEAF]

Whatever keeps Olenna alive and slinging clever insults I am good with.

Flee to safety Olenna!  We need your wit and disgust for later episodes..

 

[Maid So Fair]

She wasn't just telling Olenna to leave for Highgarden. She tells her to take comfort in her good works - in other words she's telling her to get out of dodge and start scheming from a position of strength. The last time Olenna got up to some charity work, Joffrey died. 

[Aint Nuthin But A HoundDog]

16 hours ago, Not a kneeler said:

The sketch of the rose proved to Lady Olenna that Margaery was still a Tyrell and not a convert. She risked it to make her grandmother take seriously her advise to leave while she could. If all your power is in one place you are very susceptible to being overpowered. If Olenna is back in Highgarden she is less likely to fall under the control of the HS. I've got a lot of respect for Margaery this season. The survival of her family has fallen on her shoulders.

Thanks. I was wondering what the rose meant. This makes perfect sense.

[VladimirDulud]

5 hours ago, Maid So Fair said:

She wasn't just telling Olenna to leave for Highgarden. She tells her to take comfort in her good works - in other words she's telling her to get out of dodge and start scheming from a position of strength. The last time Olenna got up to some charity work, Joffrey died. 

ha! totally.   i will also add slightly to this by saying that, i dont really think HS was threatening Olenna in the traditional sense of the word. i think he saw the incredible value that a converted Marge could bring to the table, by luring in a Baratheon king and uniting the crown with the faith militant. If anyone can lure in Olenna it's Marge. So i just thought he was basically telling her, listen, you did a great thing here. It would be awesome to have your grandma too. The threat was just a little push to convince Marge (in case she needed any pushing - which clearly she did).

[Nerevanin]

17 hours ago, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

I agree, I'm sure HS is smart enough to at least suspect she's acting if he doesn't outright know it.  Having said that, I don't think HS cares if Margaery is sincere or not, as long as she is convincing and gives him the power of the crown.  That's why he's so keen to have her back in bed with Tommen, to keep Tommen in line.  Also he probably reckons a pregnant Margaery would be less likely to take a stand against him.  Lady Oleanna is a threat to HS as she clearly would do anything for Margaery and could be an ally to Cersei, so drop a casual threat and, hey presto, Margaery convinces her to go back to Highgarden.  With Jaime gone too, Cersei is very short on support! I wonder has Kevan done some kind of deal with HS on account of Lancel?

I agree. He probably knows or at least suspects that Margaery does not mean what she says. After months of resistance, she is suddenly like that. Why the sudden change of heart? So I guess that HS wants to get rid of Olenna while also testing how far will Margaery go and where are her limits, if she will play along or if she will take up arms against him at the moment he dares to threaten her family.

[Survivor92]

19 hours ago, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

I agree, I'm sure HS is smart enough to at least suspect she's acting if he doesn't outright know it.  Having said that, I don't think HS cares if Margaery is sincere or not, as long as she is convincing and gives him the power of the crown.  That's why he's so keen to have her back in bed with Tommen, to keep Tommen in line.  Also he probably reckons a pregnant Margaery would be less likely to take a stand against him.  Lady Oleanna is a threat to HS as she clearly would do anything for Margaery and could be an ally to Cersei, so drop a casual threat and, hey presto, Margaery convinces her to go back to Highgarden.  With Jaime gone too, Cersei is very short on support! I wonder has Kevan done some kind of deal with HS on account of Lancel?

I think they'll kill off Kevan in one of the final episodes. Let's not forget that according to the book, he should already be dead.

Instead of Varys, it'll probably be Cersei who orders Qyburn to do it. We've already seen Qyburn with the little birds, so that was some foreshadowing. Then Tommen dies (suicide from sexual frustration?) and Cersei basically brought doom upon herself and the season will end with Kings Landing going up in (wild)fire. By that time Olenna will be in Highgarden and I suspect Margaery survives too. We still need some actors we're already familiar with to represent the Tyrells, after all.

[Drz]

On 7.6.2016 at 3:28 PM, dbunting said:

Correct. The HS told basically told Maergery he was going to take Olenna next. So Meargery slipped her the paper to let her know she was safe and that she had to leave the city.

The question is, did the HS test Meargery by doing this?

Most definitely, which is why he's now manipulating to get her pregnant.

Margaery might think she's a schemer, but Sparrow is scheming everyone.

[Dizzy Walker]

14 minutes ago, Drz said:

Margaery might think she's a schemer, but Sparrow is scheming everyone.

Just like he threatened to make Margaery do the walk of shame to get a King under his belt, he now threatens to "help" the QoT to get her out of the way, and isolate the young rulers without worrying about the food supply being taken away.

divide and conquer move?

 

 

 

[Masha]

3 hours ago, Survivor92 said:

I think they'll kill off Kevan in one of the final episodes. Let's not forget that according to the book, he should already be dead.

Instead of Varys, it'll probably be Cersei who orders Qyburn to do it. We've already seen Qyburn with the little birds, so that was some foreshadowing. Then Tommen dies (suicide from sexual frustration?) and Cersei basically brought doom upon herself and the season will end with Kings Landing going up in (wild)fire. By that time Olenna will be in Highgarden and I suspect Margaery survives too. We still need some actors we're already familiar with to represent the Tyrells, after all.

I agree about Qyburn. He will be doing Varys storyline with killing Kevan perhaps Pycelle as well, since Varys is stuck in Essos. 

But Qyburn will be revealed as secret Targ supported or LF mole and not following Cersei orders at all.

If Tommen kills himself and Margaery remains alive... I actually assumed something will happen to Marg to get Tommen to kill himself. 

But the only way to get Tommen to kill himself/die without Marg being dead, is from shame - first because Cersei's crazy actions will cause death of many sparrows including Lancel, and then because he finds out about twinsest. Unlike Myrcella who was pretty calm and cool over it, I am pretty sure that naive Tommen knew nothing about it and was shielded from all rumors unlike Myrcella and even Joffrey.

[TickTak7]

The house sigil was a symbol by Margaery, to Olenna, that she hasn't lost her granddaughter to the High Sparrow, and that Marg has a plan. 

All the scenes involving Olenna this episode were outstanding.