Lord Vance II Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 What if Robar Royce's combined First Men army had defeated the first Arryn and his Andal army at the battle of Seven Stars? Royce nearly did until Arryn showed up and surprised the FM from behind. The Wiki says 14 FM families were extinguished. If Arryn had been defeated, would it have put any dent into the Andal invasion? It's not like all the Andals would get out of town, but a united defense against them succeeding might put doubts into the minds of the next warlord preparing to launch across the Narrow Sea. The Vale was the the land fortold by Andal prophet, being defeated there could be a big blow. Would Royce be able to subjugate the remaining FM and solidify a Vale that could repel future attacks? Or would it all be for naught, and the Andals couldn't be stopped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Either Royce closes the Vale off like the North does and holds out, or the Andals eventually defeat them. Either way the Targaryens show up and conquer the Vale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 20 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: Either Royce closes the Vale off like the North does and holds out, or the Andals eventually defeat them. Either way the Targaryens show up and conquer the Vale. If Robar won, it means the Eyrie and the Gates of the Moon never get constructed. The Bloody Gate might not even be as fortified as it was by the Andals, so the Andals might have been able to invade the Vale from the Riverlands. On a side note, how did House Royce survive the purge of the Vale? Fourteen major houses get wiped out but the house responsible for the First Men's last stand is spared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Vance II Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 1 minute ago, James Steller said: On a side note, how did House Royce survive the purge of the Vale? Fourteen major houses get wiped out but the house responsible for the First Men's last stand is spared? Respect for a worthy foe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Vance II Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 Or maybe it wasn't so much a purge as the male lines of those houses died on the battlefield. Seems to be a fairly common occurrence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 2 hours ago, James Steller said: If Robar won, it means the Eyrie and the Gates of the Moon never get constructed. The Bloody Gate might not even be as fortified as it was by the Andals, so the Andals might have been able to invade the Vale from the Riverlands. Who says the First Men could never build great fortresses? They built Winterfell and Storm's End, didn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 The Andals wouldn't just give up because Arryn lost, they Royces would either be conquered or intermarriage with the Andals like almost everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 3 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: Either Royce closes the Vale off like the North does and holds out, or the Andals eventually defeat them. Either way the Targaryens show up and conquer the Vale. Pretty much this. everything else can happen differently as long as there is an eryie for a dragon to land on. Also, screw rewriting the story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSovereignGrave Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 28 minutes ago, Boarsbane said: The Andals wouldn't just give up because Arryn lost, they Royces would either be conquered or intermarriage with the Andals like almost everyone else. The thing is, the Vale was the only Kingdom truly conquered by the Andals. Okay, actually I suppose you could count the Riverlands as well, but the point is that the Vale was their first real major conquest of a large territory. Without that, the position of the Andals is extremely weakened unless they manage to conquer the Vale at a later date (which I don't see happening if they manage to unite the First Men of the Vale and break the Andals back). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 46 minutes ago, TheSovereignGrave said: The thing is, the Vale was the only Kingdom truly conquered by the Andals. Okay, actually I suppose you could count the Riverlands as well, but the point is that the Vale was their first real major conquest of a large territory. Without that, the position of the Andals is extremely weakened unless they manage to conquer the Vale at a later date (which I don't see happening if they manage to unite the First Men of the Vale and break the Andals back). Don't forget that the author wrote the dstory in a very specific way to ensure events take place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 27 minutes ago, Dorian Martell said: Don't forget that the author wrote the dstory in a very specific way to ensure events take place That's very clear, but in threads like this we are trying to speculate how the canon universe would work if things happened differently. Obviously GRRM intended things to happen a certain way. We get that. This is about speculation and playing with what we know about the story's setting to see what else could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 2 hours ago, Canon Claude said: That's very clear, but in threads like this we are trying to speculate how the canon universe would work if things happened differently. Obviously GRRM intended things to happen a certain way. We get that. This is about speculation and playing with what we know about the story's setting to see what else could happen. Re-writing the story. Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 12 hours ago, Lord Vance II said: What if Robar Royce's combined First Men army had defeated the first Arryn and his Andal army at the battle of Seven Stars? Royce nearly did until Arryn showed up and surprised the FM from behind. The Wiki says 14 FM families were extinguished. If Arryn had been defeated, would it have put any dent into the Andal invasion? It's not like all the Andals would get out of town, but a united defense against them succeeding might put doubts into the minds of the next warlord preparing to launch across the Narrow Sea. The Vale was the the land fortold by Andal prophet, being defeated there could be a big blow. Would Royce be able to subjugate the remaining FM and solidify a Vale that could repel future attacks? Or would it all be for naught, and the Andals couldn't be stopped? Nothing would change. Just like the Durrendons the Royces could kick the living shit of every Andal 24/7 and the Andals would still somehow, although not understood by a my mind, have conquered the Vale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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