PINK LETTER

[Coolbeard the Exile]

If jon snow never got stabbed and stannis wrote the pink letter how would jon react in them meeting because stannis lied to him and used him.

[BricksAndSparrows]

Well, if Stannis wrote the letter, he certainly provoked Jon... I'd say he's been naughty and will probably get a slap on the bottom.

 

[Nevets]

2 hours ago, Knight of valour said:

If jon snow never got stabbed and stannis wrote the pink letter how would jon react in them meeting because stannis lied to him and used him.

What makes you think Stannis wrote it in the first place?  I can see no motive for him (or anyone other than Ramsay) to have done so.  Although I'm skeptical that it contains the truth.

[BricksAndSparrows]

7 minutes ago, Nevets said:

What makes you think Stannis wrote it in the first place?  I can see no motive for him (or anyone other than Ramsay) to have done so.  Although I'm skeptical that it contains the truth.

When I read the letter, I got the impression that it was written by Ramsay, and he was bluffing, but I do wonder... Why would Ramsay want to provoke one more foe (and all the swords he would potentially bring with him,) to the enemies already outside of Winterfell?

I wonder, is it possible that Ramsay had learned of Robb's wishes to name Jon heir? Provoke him into a battle before he has time to gain support?

[Coolbeard the Exile]

It is the most educated and logical Death that stannis wrote it. This guy is the best asoiaf youtuber ever Watch his video.

[The Drunkard]

On 8/30/2016 at 7:14 AM, BricksAndSparrows said:

When I read the letter, I got the impression that it was written by Ramsay, and he was bluffing, but I do wonder... Why would Ramsay want to provoke one more foe (and all the swords he would potentially bring with him,) to the enemies already outside of Winterfell?

If Stannis is dead and his army destroyed then Jon Snow is the main threat remaining toward total Bolton hegemony, given that he's a Stark bastard in a powerful position who had supposedly made common cause with Stannis. Plus, Shireen, Melisandre and the last of Stannis' forces were at the Wall, and they would need to be removed eventually.

[BricksAndSparrows]

17 minutes ago, The Drunkard said:

If Stannis is dead and his army destroyed then Jon Snow is the main threat remaining toward total Bolton hegemony, given that he's a Stark bastard in a powerful position who had supposedly made common cause with Stannis. Plus, Shireen, Melisandre and the last of Stannis' forces were at the Wall, and they would need to be removed eventually.

Yes, yes. What I mean though is, if Ramsay is bluffing about already having defeated Stannis, if Stannis is still outside the walls of Winterfell, why would Ramsay provoke Jon to come and lend his strength to Stannis?

Obviously, if Stannis is beaten, it makes sense that Ramsay would send the letter. But there is a popular opinion that Ramsay is bullshitting in the letter (I myself lean towards this.)

Do you see what I mean?

[Stannis is the man....nis]

3 hours ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

Yes, yes. What I mean though is, if Ramsay is bluffing about already having defeated Stannis, if Stannis is still outside the walls of Winterfell, why would Ramsay provoke Jon to come and lend his strength to Stannis?

Obviously, if Stannis is beaten, it makes sense that Ramsay would send the letter. But there is a popular opinion that Ramsay is bullshitting in the letter (I myself lean towards this.)

Do you see what I mean?

Or another option is Ramsay thinks Stannis is died *dramatic music*

[aryagonnakill#2]

5 hours ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

Yes, yes. What I mean though is, if Ramsay is bluffing about already having defeated Stannis, if Stannis is still outside the walls of Winterfell, why would Ramsay provoke Jon to come and lend his strength to Stannis?

Obviously, if Stannis is beaten, it makes sense that Ramsay would send the letter. But there is a popular opinion that Ramsay is bullshitting in the letter (I myself lean towards this.)

Do you see what I mean?

The popular opinion is without question that Ramsay thinks he is telling the truth, that Stannis fakes his death just as he tells Justin Massey he will do, but that he really defeats the Freys easily with some version of the night lamp theory.  Essentially the Freys are led by a man known as Ser Stupid and he will lead his cavalry out onto the ice and fall through due to all the fishing.

Im sorry but this entire thread is a mute point as Stannis has no motive to write the letter.  Only Ramsay has the motive.

[Minuteman]

Ramsay wrote the letter imho. For me the tell tale is that he never uses the name Arya or call her Jon's sister but instead simply demands the return of "my bride". If Ramsay believes that Theon took Jeyne to Jon then he would also believe that Jon would realize that Jeyne isn't Arya and so he would not call her that. Of course he can't admit to the ruse either because his hold on the North is partly contingent on his marriage to a Stark so he uses the neutral "my bride". This wording also works against Stannis sending the letter. Stannis has Jeyne and Theon which means that he knows that Jon does not have Jeyne and therefore cannot know that she isn't Arya. So why not simply tell him to return "your sister" or "Arya". That would be a more natural way to write it and more likely to trigger a reaction in Jon. I think it's possible that Mance wrote it but that is a bit wild I think. So I think the author of the letter is exactly who it appears to be on it's face: Ramsay. Could be someone else, but I doubt it.

[dariopatke]

Ramsay, almost 100%. For those that think Stannis wrote it, does it really seem in his character to scheem like that? Not at all. Stannis wrote the letter as much as I did.

Now, I do belive that Ramsay was fed false info and Stannis drowned Freys and (likely) Manderlys. Also I think it is possible that Roose sent Ramsay with Freys (he needs to get rid of him somehow and battle is the best way) to fight and he wrote letter before he departed to meet Stannis amd after he interogated Mance and spearwives.

Both options are possible and most likely, but I think it is possible that Mance wrote it, but not very likely, after all at the end of DwD he is dead man.

[The Drunkard]

10 hours ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

Yes, yes. What I mean though is, if Ramsay is bluffing about already having defeated Stannis, if Stannis is still outside the walls of Winterfell, why would Ramsay provoke Jon to come and lend his strength to Stannis?

Obviously, if Stannis is beaten, it makes sense that Ramsay would send the letter. But there is a popular opinion that Ramsay is bullshitting in the letter (I myself lean towards this.)

Do you see what I mean?

Yeah, in that scenario there isn't a sensible reason for Ramsay to write the letter. 

I think he's been deceived, and is writing the letter based on false information sent back to the castle via the ravens Stannis captured off Arnolf's maester. The Boltons have relied on those ravens before (it's how they know he was three days away) and the weather will make it impossible for them to disprove the story. 

[Stannis is the man....nis]

Plus I hate to be "that guy" but from the books standpoint if the PL is true then Stannis is died so Bastardbowl will have to happen but key elements in the show that set up Bastardbowl aren't present in the show mainly the Northerners are heavily involved in the Stannis vs Bolton fight, Rickon is not in the possession of anyone who would hand him over to the Boltons let alone the Umbers, and on top of that it would feel weird for George to throw away all the ADWD build up with Stannis just to do it all over again with Jon.

[dariopatke]

2 hours ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

Plus I hate to be "that guy" but from the books standpoint if the PL is true then Stannis is died so Bastardbowl will have to happen but key elements in the show that set up Bastardbowl aren't present in the show mainly the Northerners are heavily involved in the Stannis vs Bolton fight, Rickon is not in the possession of anyone who would hand him over to the Boltons let alone the Umbers, and on top of that it would feel weird for George to throw away all the ADWD build up with Stannis just to do it all over again with Jon.

This. And alliamce around Boltons is really unstable, Manderlys are one step from open revolt, Umbers may just be there to open the gates and

they will be FURIOUS when they hear Hosteen impaled Mors' head kon wierwood spear, Karstarks lost their leadership and will have to fight for their lives

, Freys are likely doomed and unless Ramsay rides with Freys and dies I can really see her switching sides, she is ambitious and Ramsay hates her (Ryswells will follow Dustins likely), if not that I cam really see Stannis burning Barrowton, after all where are Mormont troops and Ironborn ships?

And in order for Bastardbowl to happen Roose has to die and it doesnt fit in his character to get killed by Ramsay, it is more fitting for him to kill Ramsay(likely indirectly) and it will happen just like Dorne rulled by bastards and Reach led by Ollena will support Daenerys.

Also if Stannis loses, Jon has around 2k wildlings who are starving, arent properly equiped and arent enough to win.

Stannis just has to take WF, it makes as much sense as Aegon taking IT, what happens next? Well, I think he either returns to the Wall and dies fighting Others or retakes Dragonstone and fights Daenerys, I just dont buy that Northeners will kill him once he takes WF for them.

[BricksAndSparrows]

On 9/2/2016 at 7:10 PM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

The popular opinion is without question that Ramsay thinks he is telling the truth, that Stannis fakes his death just as he tells Justin Massey he will do, but that he really defeats the Freys easily with some version of the night lamp theory.  Essentially the Freys are led by a man known as Ser Stupid and he will lead his cavalry out onto the ice and fall through due to all the fishing.

Im sorry but this entire thread is a mute point as Stannis has no motive to write the letter.  Only Ramsay has the motive.

Well it's not a "moot" point. These forums are all about speculation. But I agree with you anyway. The letter never struck me as anything other than Ramsay's.

I like the idea of Stannis faking his death, but I don't remember him mentioning that. Is it from the Winds chapter?

[Tucu]

30 minutes ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

Well it's not a "moot" point. These forums are all about speculation. But I agree with you anyway. The letter never struck me as anything other than Ramsay's.

I like the idea of Stannis faking his death, but I don't remember him mentioning that. Is it from the Winds chapter?

The TWoW chapter contains a lot of clues about the situation.

The language of the letter contains expressions used by Stannis, Melissandre, Mance and Theon (who was delivered to Stannis at the end of ADwD). So a conspiracy is probable.

Look for references to "false king", "red witch", "wildling princess", "little prince" and also from the TWoW chapter look for:

Spoiler

"He wants his bride back. He wants his Reek"

 

[YOVMO]

On August 29, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Knight of valour said:

If jon snow never got stabbed and stannis wrote the pink letter how would jon react in them meeting because stannis lied to him and used him.

The letter was def written by Mance. Even if he is wrong about everything else, Preston Jacob's analysis of the pink letter is something I am positive is right. 

[dariopatke]

3 hours ago, Tucu said:

The TWoW chapter contains a lot of clues about the situation.

The language of the letter contains expressions used by Stannis, Melissandre, Mance and Theon (who was delivered to Stannis at the end of ADwD). So a conspiracy is probable.

Look for references to "false king", "red witch", "wildling princess", "little prince" and also from the TWoW chapter look for:

  Hide contents

"He wants his bride back. He wants his Reek"

 

But Stannis has 2 ravens and

they will fly to WF if released, if not there there is chance they go to Dreadfort, or even Karhold

but why would Arnolf bring a raven to CB? 

[Tucu]

7 hours ago, dariopatke said:

But Stannis has 2 ravens and

  Hide contents

they will fly to WF if released, if not there there is chance they go to Dreadfort, or even Karhold

but why would Arnolf bring a raven to CB? 

The availability of ravens for CB is not an issue. Aemon sent 2 ravens each to the Glovers, Umbers, Mormonts and each of the mountain clans. There are also the birds sent by Sam during the battle at the Fist, at least one of these seem to have reached the Liddles.

Send all the help you can to Castle Black. Even as far as Oldtown and the Citadel the ravens flew, and to half a hundred mighty lords in their castles. The northern lords offered their best hope, so to them Aemon had sent two birds. To the Umbers and the Boltons, to Castle Cerwyn and Torrhen's Square, Karhold and Deepwood Motte, to Bear Island, Oldcastle, Widow's Watch, White Harbor, Barrowton, and the Rills, to the mountain fastnesses of the Liddles, the Burleys, the Norreys, the Harclays, and the Wulls, the black birds brought their plea

[dariopatke]

1 hour ago, Tucu said:

The availability of ravens for CB is not an issue. Aemon sent 2 ravens each to the Glovers, Umbers, Mormonts and each of the mountain clans. There are also the birds sent by Sam during the battle at the Fist, at least one of these seem to have reached the Liddles.

Send all the help you can to Castle Black. Even as far as Oldtown and the Citadel the ravens flew, and to half a hundred mighty lords in their castles. The northern lords offered their best hope, so to them Aemon had sent two birds. To the Umbers and the Boltons, to Castle Cerwyn and Torrhen's Square, Karhold and Deepwood Motte, to Bear Island, Oldcastle, Widow's Watch, White Harbor, Barrowton, and the Rills, to the mountain fastnesses of the Liddles, the Burleys, the Norreys, the Harclays, and the Wulls, the black birds brought their plea

But we know that birds usually fly in one way, birds that fly between two castles are "greatly prized" and ones he has are "not that clever", so Arnolf has to bring a bird that flies to CB. He has three birds, why would he waste one on CB?