Obsidian under Winterfell?

[Clegane'sPup]

On 9/13/2016 at 4:58 PM, Lurid Jester said:

I think the issue is that obsidian is too brittle for anything other than weapons soecifically for the Others, and when Sam tried his dagger on the wight it did nothing but shatter. 

I agree that the dagger shattered. It shattered on Small Paul’s iron mail. SoS c.46  Shards of dragonglass flew everywhere as the blade shattered on the iron mail beneath the wool.

Yet, Sam tells Stannis   SOS c.78  Sam cleared his throat. "S-sire. The dagger . . . the dragonglass only shattered when I tried to stab a wight."

Seems to be a tad bit of discrepancy between the two quotes.

When Small Paul is advancing on Sam the wight shows no fear of the dagger. SoS c.46  He clutched the dagger with both hands to hold it steady. The wight did not seem to fear the dragonglass.

Fire kills wights. No confusion about that.  SoS c. 46   a chunk of charred wood, smoldering red and orange within the black . . . his fingers closed around it, and he smashed it into Paul's mouth, so hard he felt teeth shatter. Yet even so the wight's grip [around the throat] did not loosen. <snip> The longhall was spinning around him when he saw the wisp of smoke rising from between Paul's broken teeth. Then the dead man's face burst into flame, and the hands were gone. <snip>  When his mouth opened, only flames came out. And his eyes…It’s gone the blue glow is gone.

While some big ass barbarian might hack the legs off a wight while another big ass barbarian bats cleanup, I gotta remember what happened in Mormont’s chambers when that chopped off hand was chocking Ghost. I spose a sword welder might need to make sure they chop those fingers off the wights. Funny thing though, that hand with its arm got put into a jar and sent to KL. It rotted before Thorne could present it.

There is obsidian under Dragonstone. The obsidian under Dragonstone according to Stannis  SoS c.78 The great part of it is black, as I recall, but there was some green as well, some red, even purple.

Problem is, was a shipload of obsidian able to leave Dragonstone before Dragonstone came under siege. I give the book and chapter numbers so people who are interested can check the context. Hopefully, when I do that, I got my glasses on straight.

Anywho, is there obsidian in the crypts under WF as the OP asked, I dun’t know.

[Lurid Jester]

14 minutes ago, SisterWithoutBanners said:

I thought the chapter about Jon and the wights in the Old Bears chamber showed that normal weapons don't work against the wights?

I'm going to track down the quote but it's either at the end of ASoS or the very beginning of AFfC. I want to say it's Stannis questioning Sam about the dragonglass cache and Aemon piping up about normal weapons and fire for wights and obsidian for the others.  

He was replying to Sam saying that the dragonglass dagger shattered when he stabbed a eight with it. 

Edit:. Oops, it was Melisandre not Aemon. My bad. 

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Samwell V 

Sam cleared his throat. "S-sire. The dagger . . . the dragonglass only shattered when I tried to stab a wight."

Melisandre smiled. "Necromancy animates these wights, yet they are still only dead flesh. Steel and fire will serve for them. The ones you call the Others are something more." 

 

[SisterWithoutBanners]

Just now, Lurid Jester said:

I'm going to track down the quote but it's either at the end of ASoS or the very beginning of AFfC. I want to say it's Stannis questioning Sam about the dragonglass cache and Aemon piping up about normal weapons and fire for wights and obsidian for the others.  

He was replying to Sam saying that the dragonglass dagger shattered when he stabbed a eight with it. 

Yeah, but the wight DID die. And when Jon fought the wights with swords in the old bears chambers they did not die, he had to lit the entire room with fire from an oil lamp, at least that is how I remember it.

[Lurid Jester]

7 minutes ago, SisterWithoutBanners said:

Yeah, but the wight DID die. And when Jon fought the wights with swords in the old bears chambers they did not die, he had to lit the entire room with fire from an oil lamp, at least that is how I remember it.

Found the quote I was referencing (edited previous post). It was Melisandre that said steel and fire will work for the wights. 

As to obsidian being under Winterfell, I can't see why it would. Seems that if there was an ancient stash somewhere it would be in one of the abandoned NW castles. 

[SisterWithoutBanners]

Just now, Lurid Jester said:

Found the quote I was referencing (edited previous post). It was Melisandre that said steel and fire will work for the wights. 

Aaah, thank you for clearing that up! Well, I probably remembered wrong. Anyway, I hope there is obsidian under Winterfell, as I think that would be a better plot twist than dragoneggs and so on. 

[Lurid Jester]

21 minutes ago, SisterWithoutBanners said:

I thought the chapter about Jon and the wights in the Old Bears chamber showed that normal weapons don't work against the wights?

No idea.  Maybe chalk it up to Melisandre talking out her ass?  Or maybe a slight retcon by Martin so that the humans have some kind of chance against a horde of zombies during the final battle.  Assuming there is one. 

[HoodedCrow]

Winterfell would make a dramatic place for a last stand against the Others. Plot lines could come together, such as Bran communicating how to get in through the Crypts, to bring supplies and soldiers. There are sources of water in the hot springs plenty for a long siege There may be clues in Lyannas tomb, Sansa slaying a giant, Arya returning home, Jon defending the world after the wall is down, and Dany and Tyrion showing up on dragon back. The BWB, including Gendry, Jaime, Bienne, Asha, Theon, Sandor or Sam, could also turn up as heroes, as well as a few Valyrian swords. Since much of it is in ruins, it would not be a posh hotel setting for a new Ragnorock.

If there is obsidian at Winterfell, the human race could hang on just that much longer with tipped spears, arrows and crossbow bolts. 

[Voice]

On 9/16/2016 at 2:18 PM, Lurid Jester said:

Found the quote I was referencing (edited previous post). It was Melisandre that said steel and fire will work for the wights. 

Haven't we known this since book one (Jon)?

 

On 9/16/2016 at 2:18 PM, Lurid Jester said:

As to obsidian being under Winterfell, I can't see why it would. Seems that if there was an ancient stash somewhere it would be in one of the abandoned NW castles. 

I agree with this. One wonders if Winterfell had no reason to fear the Others.

[SisterWithoutBanners]

My point was that the obsidian may be created by the same volcanic source that heats the castle. I don't think there is a hidden stash of obsidian - as you say, this would probably be at the wall if anything. I just think that it is a possibility that since obsidian is a volcanic glass, and we know that the castle is built over hot springs - which may stem from a volcanic source. 

[Lurid Jester]

3 hours ago, Voice said:

Haven't we known this since book one (Jon)?

I think it's the seeming contradiction between what we've seen and what Melisandre is saying. 

Normal weapons don't seem to be enough for the wights..  Unless a catastrophic amount of damage is done to the body it seems fully capable of continuing the fight. 

[ThePrinceThatKnewNothing]

Great post. It never occurred to me!. 

[Clegane'sPup]

On 9/18/2016 at 0:39 PM, SisterWithoutBanners said:

My point was that the obsidian may be created by the same volcanic source that heats the castle. I don't think there is a hidden stash of obsidian - as you say, this would probably be at the wall if anything. I just think that it is a possibility that since obsidian is a volcanic glass, and we know that the castle is built over hot springs - which may stem from a volcanic source. 

I think it is a good possibility that there may some frozen fire/obsidian/dragonglass down there under WF.

A Feast for Crows - Samwell I    "I found mention of dragonglass. The children of the forest used to give the Night's Watch a hundred obsidian daggers every year, during the Age of Heroes.  [I'm not knowledgeable about the Age of Heroes]

The expanded quote is:

A Feast for Crows - Samwell I     "I found mention of dragonglass. The children of the forest used to give the Night's Watch a hundred obsidian daggers every year, during the Age of Heroes. The Others come when it is cold, most of the tales agree. Or else it gets cold when they come. Sometimes they appear during snowstorms and melt away when the skies clear. They hide from the light of the sun and emerge by night . . . or else night falls when they emerge. Some stories speak of them riding the corpses of dead animals. Bears, direwolves, mammoths, horses, it makes no matter, so long as the beast is dead. The one that killed Small Paul was riding a dead horse, so that part's plainly true. Some accounts speak of giant ice spiders too. I don't know what those are. Men who fall in battle against the Others must be burned, or else the dead will rise again as their thralls."

<snip>

The armor of the Others is proof against most ordinary blades, if the tales can be believed," said Sam, "and their own swords are so cold they shatter steel. Fire will dismay them, though, and they are vulnerable to obsidian." He remembered the one he had faced in the haunted forest, and how it had seemed to melt away when he stabbed it with the dragonglass dagger Jon had made for him. "I found one account of the Long Night that spoke of the last hero slaying Others with a blade of dragonsteel. Supposedly they could not stand against it."

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 9/7/2016 at 1:02 PM, SisterWithoutBanners said:

There has been a lot of theories concerning what's in the crypts of Winterfell, but I have not found any threads about obsidian (please link below if you have). 
- So, in the books we are told that there are hot springs beneath Winterfell, and that this is what keeps the castle warm, even in winter. And what are hot springs? Well, they are heated by the Earth's mantle. This can happen in volcanic areas, where the water is heated by magma.
- Obsidian is an ancient form of volcanic glass. In the books they seem to use both the term obsidian and dragonglass for the same thing (but I may be wrong about this). 

Do you guys think that it is possible that the hot springs stem from a vulcano - and that there may be a source of obsidian beneath Winterfell?

There are no volcanoes near Winterfell so I would say there is no dragon glass in the crypts 

[kissdbyfire]

Obsidian kills WWs, not wights, as others have pointed out. I like the idea, btw, of obsidian down in the crypts, and the sulphuric odour is suggestive. 

I can't remember where it's said that the NW buried caches of obsidian though. Anyone can point me in the right direction?

[kissdbyfire]

On 16/09/2016 at 5:12 PM, SisterWithoutBanners said:

Yeah, but the wight DID die. And when Jon fought the wights with swords in the old bears chambers they did not die, he had to lit the entire room with fire from an oil lamp, at least that is how I remember it.

To which wight are you referring to? Because Small Paul died, but from fire. 

[Clegane'sPup]

On 7/30/2017 at 7:14 PM, kissdbyfire said:

Obsidian kills WWs, not wights, as others have pointed out. I like the idea, btw, of obsidian down in the crypts, and the sulphuric odour is suggestive. 

I can't remember where it's said that the NW buried caches of obsidian though. Anyone can point me in the right direction?

I don’t remember it being mentioned. The only reference I remember is the stash Ghost found. The rest of the post is not directed to you specifically. I’m hoping other people will chime in.

If what Sam read is correct, “The children of the forest used to give the Night's Watch a hundred obsidian daggers every year, during the Age of Heroes” the CotF had to get the frozen fire/obsidian/dragonglass from somewhere.

I was speculating in a different thread about the possibility that the crypt (an underground burial chamber) may be part of a large underground cavern.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/147210-a-stark-must-always-be-in-winterfell-to-guard-the-crypts/&do=findComment&comment=7980106

What’s under WF I dunna know. Dragonglass is a possibility. I would be interested in other posters ideas about where the CotF got the stuff to give to the NW.

I’m tossing around ideas ---- was it after or before Bran & company took the swords that Jon (I’m unsure may have been Theon) had the dream about the tombs opening?

 

[kissdbyfire]

2 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I don’t remember it being mentioned. The only reference I remember is the stash Ghost found. The rest of the post is not directed to you specifically. I’m hoping other people will chime in.

If what Sam read is correct, “The children of the forest used to give the Night's Watch a hundred obsidian daggers every year, during the Age of Heroes” the CotF had to get the frozen fire/obsidian/dragonglass from somewhere.

 

I was speculating in a different thread about the possibility that the crypt (an underground burial chamber) may be part of a large underground cavern.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/147210-a-stark-must-always-be-in-winterfell-to-guard-the-crypts/&do=findComment&comment=7980106

What’s under WF I dunna know. Dragonglass is a possibility. I would be interested in other posters ideas about where the CotF got the stuff to give to the NW.

I’m tossing around ideas ---- was it after or before Bran & company took the swords that Jon (I’m unsure may have been Theon) had the dream about the tombs opening?

 

Cheers! I didn't think there were any mentions of the NW burying obsidian but I could be misremembering. 

Regarding the bolded, I think one possibility is Hardhome and/or its surrounding areas. After all, we are told that the conflagration was so fierce the black brothers at the Wall thought the sun was rising in the North.

“He did. Hardhome had been halfway toward becoming a town, the only true town north of the Wall, until the night six hundred years ago when hell had swallowed it. Its people had been carried off into slavery or slaughtered for meat, depending on which version of the tale you believed, their homes and halls consumed in a conflagration that burned so hot that watchers on the Wall far to the south had thought the sun was rising in the north.”

 

[SisterWithoutBanners]

On 31.7.2017 at 1:20 AM, kissdbyfire said:

To which wight are you referring to? Because Small Paul died, but from fire. 

You are right! My mistake, I am sorry. It is the walkers that can be killed with obsidian.
EDIT:This comment was in reference to a discussion earlier on this forum, concerning whether normal weapons can kill the Wights. I thought obsidian could kill both Wights and WW, but I remembered wrong

[SisterWithoutBanners]

On 31.7.2017 at 1:14 AM, kissdbyfire said:

Obsidian kills WWs, not wights, as others have pointed out. I like the idea, btw, of obsidian down in the crypts, and the sulphuric odour is suggestive. 

I can't remember where it's said that the NW buried caches of obsidian though. Anyone can point me in the right direction?

Is there mention of sulphuric odour in Winterfell in the books? If there is, it is very plausible that there is volcanic activity underground at least!

[elder brother jonothor dar]

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 9:33 PM, Clegane'sPup said:

 "Chunks of it, boulders, ledges. The great part of it was black, as I recall, but there was some green as well, some red, even purple.

Black splits the others causing them to melt, green weakens them as everyone knows, red stronger than green and causes mood swings so potentially we can see good others, purprle kind of like periwinkle I guess so expect drunk Others.

By rights if three are chunks of the stuff just sitting about it should be easy to get the first shipment loaded no mining needed.

As for the wights not sure what it would do to one if it was not wearing armour, would they also melt it not react at all?