TheGoodEgg Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 so I shall preface this with the acknowledgement that I am well aware: "war is bad and you can't just claim you have good reasons to start it." is as close to the moral of the song as we're going to get. so the question i'm asking here is "how would Robb explain himself if asked?" As we all know, Robb goes to war because his father is killed and his Sisters are being held captive in Kings Landing. so he calls the banners and there we go war time. And along the way tens of thousands of people have their fathers die and have terrible things happen to their sisters..... so isn't he a complete hypocrite? that these things are bad enough to go do the exact same things to other people? and how can he still think he's in the right because of it? the short answer would probably be "he's raised to think the life of Lords is worth more then the little folk" but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 His grandfather was under siege and his lands were being pillaged and plundered by Tywin's men by the time Robb did anything. Also, the Crown demanded his presence in King's Landing. It was clear he would not be allowed to leave. If he didn't show, he would possibly be arrested once the Crown's allies dealt with his granddad. When he went to war, his father was still alive, and it was hoped that a negotiated settlement could be reached, which would have avoided a lot of the fighting. He was probably hoping to manage things with a minimum of bloodshed, but it doesn't always work that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I agree that Robb going to war in order to save his family but killing other families during that is hypocritical but as you said he has been raised thinking that this is what he has to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodEgg Posted February 25, 2017 Author Share Posted February 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, Nevets said: His grandfather was under siege and his lands were being pillaged and plundered by Tywin's men by the time Robb did anything. Also, the Crown demanded his presence in King's Landing. It was clear he would not be allowed to leave. If he didn't show, he would possibly be arrested once the Crown's allies dealt with his granddad. When he went to war, his father was still alive, and it was hoped that a negotiated settlement could be reached, which would have avoided a lot of the fighting. He was probably hoping to manage things with a minimum of bloodshed, but it doesn't always work that way. yeah I think I was forgetting how much Joffery being who he is as a person screwed everything up. If he'd wanted peace then he could have had Robb and his army going home content within a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Giving in to the demands of tyrants will never end well. This is not a war Robb wanted, but there was no other choice when faced with such unreasonable terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady bonehead Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Also don't forget he was doing the same thing Ned did. History repeats itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 1 hour ago, TheGoodEgg said: so I shall preface this with the acknowledgement that I am well aware: "war is bad and you can't just claim you have good reasons to start it." is as close to the moral of the song as we're going to get. so the question i'm asking here is "how would Robb explain himself if asked?" As we all know, Robb goes to war because his father is killed and his Sisters are being held captive in Kings Landing. so he calls the banners and there we go war time. His father was still alive, just imprisoned for trying to arrest the Royal family (with plenty of witnesses). Robb called his banners and went to war because he refused to believe that his father was capable of treason. A better question to ask would be about the effect that Robb calling the Northern banners and marching to war had on Joffrey? Is there a chance that Joffrey executed Ned in retaliation for Robb's actions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady bonehead Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said: His father was still alive, just imprisoned for trying to arrest the Royal family (with plenty of witnesses). Robb called his banners and went to war because he refused to believe that his father was capable of treason. A better question to ask would be about the effect that Robb calling the Northern banners and marching to war had on Joffrey? Is there a chance that Joffrey executed Ned in retaliation for Robb's actions? No, I think Joff executed Ned in retaliation for Ned calling him a bastard. Them's fightin' words where I come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Flies Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Robb didn't cause the medieval society structure in Westeros that causes a lot of people to fight and die for the actions of a few. While he did play his part in that structure and get a lot people killed, the root cause of his actions (defense of his family) is a pretty universal motivator. Using that as a justification does not excuse the damage caused, but from the narrow view of one teenage boy it's not hard to see where he's coming from. Plus, Robb didn't head out intending to start a devastating civil war. If he could have relieved Riverrun, traded for Ned, and went home, he likely would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 18 minutes ago, The Mountain That Flies said: Robb didn't cause the medieval society structure in Westeros that causes a lot of people to fight and die for the actions of a few. While he did play his part in that structure and get a lot people killed, the root cause of his actions (defense of his family) is a pretty universal motivator. Using that as a justification does not excuse the damage caused, but from the narrow view of one teenage boy it's not hard to see where he's coming from. Plus, Robb didn't head out intending to start a devastating civil war. If he could have relieved Riverrun, traded for Ned, and went home, he likely would have. Indeed, Robb isn't responsible for how Westeros is. I agreed he would have stopped if he got the Ned and the girls back. However once he was crowned King in the North he was stuck in the war. The Riverlands had sworn their swords to him (poor Edmure) so it was now his responsbility to attempt to save the Riverlands since they were now his vassals as well. Basically once he was King he couldn't simply turn and head back. Everyone would have turned on him, as his men made him King they could unmake him just as quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jango Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Well Robb doesn't rally the banners because his father is called. News spreads across Westeros that Ned is jailed in King's Landing, on the grounds of Treason against the Throne. Robb hears of this, and knowing his father, rallies the banners, in pursuit of King's Landing, but not with war entirely in mind. He rallies the banners, in the situation he needs them, if war were to happen to break out. It's not until news of the death of his father that he completely wants war. His family is fractured, his father is dead, executed on the grounds of being a traitor (and confessing, due to that being the only thing he can do). On top of that, Robb didn't force his father's bannermen to march off to war with him. The declare him King in the North, a gesture showing that they will follow him into battle, regardless of the outcome, also serving as a message saying that they support whatever decisions he makes from there-on-out. Realistically, no one person can properly justify a war, seeing as there will always be the typical "he said, she said." If we play devil's advocate, the Lannisters can claim to have declared war on the North because Catelyn basically took Tyrion hostage, and eventually prisoner in the Eyrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberdirectorfreedom Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Robb was a fool. I don't understand what his goal was, at the beginning. Raise banners, march to King's Landing, get turned back because they have his father hostage? "Free my father," he'd say, to which they'd reply "No, he's guilty of treason." Now what? Starting a war would mean Ned would be killed, so I just don't see what he was going to do. Good thing Joffrey killed Ned, because otherwise Robb would have been so embarrassed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilish Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 The Riverlands was being attacked for actions done by a Stark (Cat). The North was bound by both morals and blood to defend them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shouldve Taken The Black Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 People are products of their environment, in the context of the society, it would have simply been unthinkable to allow his father to be arrested and his grandfather's lands be invaded and do nothing about it. Even if he had justified it in the terms you describe, the decision would have been considered cowardice by everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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