snow is the man Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Maybe I missed something but I remember hearing that the wall only goes from eastwatch to the mountains. I don't understand why some don't just cross into the mountains and bypass the giant magical wall. Even if they only go a hundred others through the mountains they could build an army that way since everyone they kill comes back to life as a dead soldier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Fear of heights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renly's Banana Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Why didn't Frodo just ride the giant eagles to Mount Doom? The mountains are probably very hard to climb, even for ice zombies. Not only that, but even if they did get around them over time, they would have to cross a bay to reach the south side of the Wall. And I don't think they have zombie boats. Maybe, but, y'know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I thought of something else. The Wall isn't just ice, it's got magic in it. Maybe the mountains are warded too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Xyn Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The mountains could have wards or some kind of predator in there like giants or something, but ultimately because the plot demands they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Just waiting for them to use Gorne and Gendel's Way. Just imagining the look on Watch's face. Especially Bowen Marsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fresh PtwP Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: I thought of something else. The Wall isn't just ice, it's got magic in it. Maybe the mountains are warded too? Pretty much this. My interpretation is, while imposing, the Wall is more of a magical line in the sand than a physical obstacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ckram Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I thought that what separates the Wall from the Bay of Ice is the Gorge, not mountains. The north map in the books seems to indicate that the Gorge forms a natural border between the north and the lands beyond the wall. In a SSM, GGRM states that it's impossible to circumvent the Wall to the West with an army, because "the mountains and a deep river gorge make the terrain impassable for all but small groups of raiders". Taking this into account, I deduced that: (a) the mountains lie north of the Gorge; (b ) the others would have to descend the Gorge or cross the bridge of skulls, in order to bypass the wall. On the other hand, it is worth noting that the wall was built after the long night, which means that the warding of the wall was never really tested against the others (we don't even hear stories about others trying to make it through the wall). Though Coldhands said that he cannot pass through himself, due to the "Wall's magic", since he was not an Other no one really knows if it would actually prevent them from passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 12 hours ago, snow is the man said: Maybe I missed something but I remember hearing that the wall only goes from eastwatch to the mountains. I don't understand why some don't just cross into the mountains and bypass the giant magical wall. Even if they only go a hundred others through the mountains they could build an army that way since everyone they kill comes back to life as a dead soldier 5 hours ago, Lord Wraith said: Just waiting for them to use Gorne and Gendel's Way. Just imagining the look on Watch's face. Especially Bowen Marsh I don't think it is possible as long as the Wall stands strong and the NW stays true. Note the Gorge is also a very strong defensive position, but there might be also some magic in the bridge of skulls. It should be the same with any other possible pass. 4 hours ago, The Fresh PtwP said: Pretty much this. My interpretation is, while imposing, the Wall is more of a magical line in the sand than a physical obstacle. But then, why is it so tall and strong? We know that wights and the Others cannot enter the cave where Bran, Bloodraven are with Children are right now, because of some strong magic. We can assume the magic of the Wall is similar, but why then also build such a strong physical barrier if magic is enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 6 hours ago, Ckram said: I thought that what separates the Wall from the Bay of Ice is the Gorge, not mountains. The north map in the books seems to indicate that the Gorge forms a natural border between the north and the lands beyond the wall. In a SSM, GGRM states that it's impossible to circumvent the Wall to the West with an army, because "the mountains and a deep river gorge make the terrain impassable for all but small groups of raiders". Taking this into account, I deduced that: (a) the mountains lie north of the Gorge; (b ) the others would have to descend the Gorge or cross the bridge of skulls, in order to bypass the wall. On the other hand, it is worth noting that the wall was built after the long night, which means that the warding of the wall was never really tested against the others (we don't even hear stories about others trying to make it through the wall). Though Coldhands said that he cannot pass through himself, due to the "Wall's magic", since he was not an Other no one really knows if it would actually prevent them from passing. They could have had some Others as prisoners from the war and used them to test it before killing them. 4 hours ago, rotting sea cow said: <snip But then, why is it so tall and strong? We know that wights and the Others cannot enter the cave where Bran, Bloodraven are with Children are right now, because of some strong magic. We can assume the magic of the Wall is similar, but why then also build such a strong physical barrier if magic is enough? Can't speak to why it's as wide as it is except for practical purposes, but each successive LC of the Watch kept building it up for a very long time. GRRM refers the Wall being "finished" before Night's King arose, which means the adding on to the Wall was unnecessary. I could see the LsC who came more than 1,000 years after the Long Night thinking they were against the Wildlings and trying to make it harder for them to climb the Wall. Otherwise we're basically looking at glory-hounds trying to be the LC under whom the Wall reached its greatest height--which failed completely because nobody remembers who the last LC was to order it built higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 17 hours ago, rotting sea cow said: I don't think it is possible as long as the Wall stands strong and the NW stays true. The NW has murdered its last two Lord Commanders, hard to get any more false than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 15 hours ago, Lord Wraith said: The NW has murdered its last two Lord Commanders, hard to get any more false than that. I think that throughout the history there have been a good number of mutinies, assassinations, treasons and other actions that are "untrue" to the NW vows. We learn of some of them, like Lord Commanders setting themselves as kings or warring between factions of the NW, etc. But I get your point, giving the dwindling numbers of the NW, the lack of loyal men, mutinies and murders of the LC, the NW may have reached the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 On 2017-03-10 at 10:06 AM, Lady Blizzardborn said: Can't speak to why it's as wide as it is except for practical purposes, but each successive LC of the Watch kept building it up for a very long time. GRRM refers the Wall being "finished" before Night's King arose, which means the adding on to the Wall was unnecessary. Not doubting you; but can you point me to an SSM, interview? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 1 hour ago, LynnS said: Not doubting you; but can you point me to an SSM, interview? I'll go looking for it. Aaaaand...I can't find that particular SSM regarding the timing of the Night's King's reign. Could be I'm mixing things up. There's a line in the wiki about it but no source attribution so it's not really worth much. I did find an SSM about the Wall being smaller initially, and the quote from the text about the LsC having it built higher. Quote AGoT, Tyrion III LC Mormont speaking: "...Once the Watch spent its summers building, and each Lord Commander raised the Wall higher than he found it. Now it is all we can do to stay alive." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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