Cron

Bets On The Father of Cersei's Current Pregnancy?

263 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, Cron said:

Wow.

Can't even imagine what her reaction would be.

She would kill the child, giving Jaime the incentive to go valonquar.

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5 hours ago, Cron said:

....but Frankengregor would not surprise me, either.  He and Cersei have been pretty close for quite a while now, and she owes him a LOT, and he's been loyal to House Lannister for a LONG time.  He could be the show's version of a Kettleblack.  If so, I wonder if he took his armor off.  Probably not.

Er..what. 

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9 hours ago, nara said:

Interesting theory, but if Euron had slept with Cersei, there's no way he wouldn't have found a way to taunt Jaime about it!  He would have sent a raven, if necessary.

He'd be like "She does like a finger in her bum! And my two good hands"

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7 hours ago, direwoofwoof said:

My first thought is that the pregnancy is a lie. That is one thing that would keep Jamie loyal to her, especially after losing all the other children. She sensed she was losing her control over him and is fabricating the pregnancy to keep it. 

I mean, this is the only thing that makes sense to me, considering Jaime must have been gone for weeks, surely, even months? to get to Highgarden and back with an army and a loot train. Surely she'd be showing some signs of being pregnant externally by now (her clothes are always pretty tight, too). So it's either a lie to manipulate him, or it's not Jaime's.

I also think it could be the baby that's the valonquar - would be kind of poetic since Cersei has been claiming for so many seasons that everything she does is (allegedly) for the love of her children, then it turns out her last child for her "dynasty" is what brings her down.

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Hold the phone........the prohecy is she will be killed by her little brother (valonquor for high valerian correct?)

Would her dying in child birth (ironically like her mother) be seen as her little brother killing her (since its presumably jamies seed and he is 2 or 3 minutes younger IIRC) were all assuming she will be killed at the hand of someone, sword, etc etc but ive never thought of it this way until now

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, storm.131 said:

All jokes aside, wouldn't it be a great twist if Cersei gave birth to a dwarf?  Karma.

I was coming here to say the EXACT same thing! :thumbsup:

(Have a feeling she'll miscarry.....would also be ironic if she was really going through menopause. No more babies for her--kinda like it's the end of the line for her. A queen who can't have kids. Even more ironic since she put her bastard kids on the throne, passing them off as Roberts. Technically the same could be done to her now, pass someone else's kids off as hers, to keep the throne in her hands, etc. Don't know if she'd ever agree though. Don't mind me......just rambling! LOL.) 

Edited by Queen of Winter

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6 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

I know Tyrion is too obvious, it's just what I would find most satisfying I think.  And yes, I am a hard core Tyrion fan, in spite of his lunders of late.  But he got his heartless father.  And yes, I've read a lot of mmysteries and you're right, it's never the most obvious.person, so I do believe it would be Jaime.

Well, if you're a huge Tyrion fan, maybe you'll like this.  I'm not convinced Tyrion has committed big blunders lately.

Personally, my plan to take Westeros would have been different from his, but they stuck to Tyrion's plan and it paid off in a big way at the Field of Fire 2, where Lannister and Tarly armies were crushed.

Sure, the dragons have been heavily under-utilized, but that's a plot device to "nerf" the dragons cuz they are so powerful and such a huge advantage that if they were used even half-decently the war between Dany and Cersei would be no contest.

Indeed, one of the greatest values of those dragons would be for reconnaissance, and they are not being used for that AT ALL.  They don't even have to fight, or be in any danger, they could fly high like a spy plane, so Dany would have KNOWN that Euron's fleet was coming up the coast, and so that Dany would have KNOWN the Lannisters had abandoned Casterly Rock and were moving on Highgarden.

And, clearly, they are being under-utilized in the quest for the wight, too.  Dany is sitting around Dragonstone, with three dragons doing nothing, while Jon and the others have gone north to try to find a wight and bring it back...on foot??  Wow, those dragons would be REALLY handy to fly recon to tell Jon "Hey, there's an army of 10,000 undead 3 miles to the west," or whatever.  Indeed, as far as we know, Dany is still skeptical herself that the WW/Other threat even exists.  So, uh, why doesn't she hop on Drogon, fly up there and take a look?  Might even wanna strafe  'em a few times with dragon fire to cross off a few thousand or so, who knows?

But no.  Dany sits at Dragonstone with her 3 dragons, doing nothing, while Jon and his crew travel north by ship, then WALK into the north to try to find a wight, on a quest which, realistically, would likely take MONTHS to complete (round trip), whereas Dany could have flown up there and back in a day or two.

Oh well.

Sigh.,   

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2 hours ago, nara said:

She would kill the child, giving Jaime the incentive to go valonquar.

Pretty sad, but probably true.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Queen of Winter said:

I was coming here to say the EXACT same thing! :thumbsup:

(Have a feeling she'll miscarry.....would also be ironic if she was really going through menopause. No more babies for her--kinda like it's the end of the line for her. A queen who can't have kids. Even more ironic since she put her bastard kids on the throne, passing them off as Roberts. Technically the same could be done to her now, pass someone else's kids off as hers, to keep the throne in her hands, etc. Don't know if she'd ever agree though. Don't mind me......just rambling! LOL.) 

I think Cersei giving birth to a dwarf would also tie in nicely with incest increasing the likelihood of particular genetic characteristics being passed on.

However, having just re-read the chapter when Cersei saw Maggy the Frog, I agree that all this will turn out to be menopause or a phantom pregnancy because Maggy's prophecy said she would have 3 children.  Since everything else she predicted has so far come true, it would be unlikely for her to end up having 4 children.

Edited by storm.131
addition

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Hibee87 said:


Hold the phone........the prohecy is she will be killed by her little brother (valonquor for high valerian correct?)

Would her dying in child birth (ironically like her mother) be seen as her little brother killing her (since its presumably jamies seed and he is 2 or 3 minutes younger IIRC) were all assuming she will be killed at the hand of someone, sword, etc etc but ive never thought of it this way until now

Interesting theory but the prophecy was "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Therefore, if the prophecy will come true, Cersei will be strangled by someone with two hands, which rules out Jamie strangling her since he can't wrap his metal hand around anything or her dying in childbirth.

Also, note that Maggy the Frog said "the valonqar" not "your valonqar", so she wasn't necessarily talking about her little brother.  It could be anyone who has an older sibling.

There are also theories that "valonqar" is gender neutral, so it could be translated as "younger sibling".  I'm not so sure about this though since she also said "his hands" indicating it was a male.

Personally, I like the theory that Euron switches sides and strangles Cersei to win Dany's favour.

Edited by storm.131
clarity

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2 hours ago, NexivRed said:

Er..what. 

Frankengregor is a name sometimes used for the current version or condition of Gregor Clegane  Other names are also sometimes used, such as UnGregor (meaning Undead Gregor, as Cat, or Lady Stoneheart, is sometimes called UnCat)

So, I was contemplating the possibility that Cersei has been having sex with the current version of Gregor Clegane.

Or was it the reference to the Kettleblacks that confused you?  As i recall, in the books, the Kettleblacks were 3 brothers whom Cersei used as henchmen to do some of her dirty work, and in return, as I recall, she had sex with all 3 of them (at different times, so far as I know).  But the Kettleblacks were left out of the show, so I was speculating that perhaps UnGregor fills that role in the show, as a henchman of Cersei's whom she rewards with sex, and thus the baby may be Little UnGregor, Jr.

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This is a very interesting thread, but I feel that given everything we know about how Cersei felt about being married off to Robert and women being owned by men, it is unrealistic that she is pregnant from anyone else. At this point, I think she would consider it beneath her to have to use sex to manipulate someone. I don't think it is beyond her to abuse her power at this point in search of personal sexual gratification, but since this is fiction, it would have to be someone we know for the plot point to be of any relevance and none of the people that come to mind make any sense:

  • Tyrion makes no sense at all. She is entirely consumed by her hate for him.
  • Qyburn and Frankmountain are already completely devoted to her and not attractive.
  • To her, Euron is a tool. Also, even if she was attracted to his roguish ways, she would fear he might lose interest if she gave him what he wanted too soon.
  • There really isn't anyone else that makes a lick of sense.

It's either Jaime or she's lying to him, to keep him loyal and make him think of a future and his legacy again. Finding out she lied to him might also work as a bigtime betrayal and turn Jaime, thus this could be an interesting subplot. It was the way she smiled/smirked as they embraced at the end of their scene that first made me think this.

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2 hours ago, storm.131 said:

Interesting theory but the prophecy was "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Therefore, if the prophecy will come true, Cersei will be strangled by someone with two hands, which rules out Jamie strangling her since he can't wrap his metal hand around anything or her dying in childbirth.

Also, note that Maggy the Frog said "the valonqar" not "your valonqar", so she wasn't necessarily talking about her little brother.  It could be anyone who has an older sibling.

There are also theories that "valonqar" is gender neutral, so it could be translated as "younger sibling".  I'm not so sure about this though since she also said "his hands" indicating it was a male.

Personally, I like the theory that Euron switches sides and strangles Cersei to win Dany's favour.

I see two possibilities regarding prophecy:

It could be Hound literally strangling Cersei.

Or...

...she will die because of the pregnancy. The new baby is the sibling in the prophecy. Her tears following the death of her three children have dried, when she starts expecting again. The baby couldn't strangle her but it could be figure of speech to tell that she dies of eclampsia. 

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If the showrunners want to turn the story into a soap opera, I won't comply by treating it as one.

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2 hours ago, Carl Drogo said:

This is a very interesting thread, but I feel that given everything we know about how Cersei felt about being married off to Robert and women being owned by men, it is unrealistic that she is pregnant from anyone else. At this point, I think she would consider it beneath her to have to use sex to manipulate someone. I don't think it is beyond her to abuse her power at this point in search of personal sexual gratification, but since this is fiction, it would have to be someone we know for the plot point to be of any relevance and none of the people that come to mind make any sense:

  • Tyrion makes no sense at all. She is entirely consumed by her hate for him.
  • Qyburn and Frankmountain are already completely devoted to her and not attractive.
  • To her, Euron is a tool. Also, even if she was attracted to his roguish ways, she would fear he might lose interest if she gave him what he wanted too soon.
  • There really isn't anyone else that makes a lick of sense.

It's either Jaime or she's lying to him, to keep him loyal and make him think of a future and his legacy again. Finding out she lied to him might also work as a bigtime betrayal and turn Jaime, thus this could be an interesting subplot. It was the way she smiled/smirked as they embraced at the end of their scene that first made me think this.

Regarding your statement that I put in bold above?

Have you read the books?  Book-Cersei absolutely will, and does, use sex to get what she wants, even for relatively petty and minor things.

As I recall, Lancel and all 3 Kettleblack brothers had sex with her in exchange for stuff they did for her, at a bare minimum.

And, as I've speculated above, it's easy for me to imagine Cersei having "revenge sex" with Euron, as revenge against Jaime for what she sees as his betrayal of her.  Then, oops, she gets pregnant accidentally, then quickly grabs Jaime and has sex with him so that he won't suspect he's not the father.

I really think this rings true to me, and will end up being the catalyst for Jaime crossing her off when he finds out the truth.

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26 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

If the showrunners want to turn the story into a soap opera, I won't comply by treating it as one.

Well, to a degree, I'd say the show and books have had soap opera elements since the very beginning.

How would Cersei now being impregnated by Euron and lying to Jaime about it be much different from the three times she was impregnated by Jaime and lied to Robert about it?  And, of course, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

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Posted (edited)

Fair enough, one of the things I least like of the series.

Edited by Illiterati

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13 hours ago, Wildling Queen said:

Could the younger sibling be Arya considering that she's a younger sibling of Sansa, the girl Cersei tortured for so long?

 

See, I never did like this kind of explanation for valanquaor. Most people in the world have siblings. So this prophecy will just mean - "Some guy or a girl is going to kill you one day" What is even the point of including such a prophecy?

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