darmody

Did the Night King Spring a Dragon Trap?

97 posts in this topic

14 hours ago, darmody said:

Why not try harder to kill Dany and the other two dragons? Because then there wouldn't be a show. 

This also works the other way round, as I have stated in the "rating" thread: Why did not Dany kill him with her two remaining dragons? He was standing just a hundred metres away, she could have attacked and scorched him for good. End of the story.
Few made sense in this episode.

 

9 minutes ago, darmody said:

 

Both sides are making stupid mistakes

Well, welcome to the forum, Mr President! (sorry, couldn't resist)

 

 

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If NK is Bran, then the goal is for NK to kill 3ER Bran to stop the destructive time warp cycle Bran inadvertently created.

3ER Bran doesn't understand this (yet?), but NK Bran does.

 

I think if NK wanted Jon dead, Jon would be dead.

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As I said in other thread,

1. I think the night king was expecting Dany to arrive with her dragons. They did not look shocked to see them. Let's not forget, they did look surprised when Jon block a swing from a WW but not a dragon. Jon I think also realized that they have weapon capable of killing the dragons.

2. The night king most definitely has a connection with Bran. It's quite possible that the NK has some sort of power like Bran. It makes sense as the Children Of The Forest did create him.

Other than that, it's possible he wanted the group to become really weak from the cold before attacking them.

 

 

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15 hours ago, darmody said:

The only plausible explanation I can come up with for the Real North plot in this episode is that everything was part of the Night King's Secret Plan to capture one (and only one) of Dany's dragons. Which is why he let the Magnificent Six wait on an island for three days, or however long we're supposed to believe it took for the dragons to rescue them. 

 

In the book the wights were quite comfortable under water (on account of them being dead) so the whole premise of the heroic party of idiots being stranded on an island encircled by them is absurd. And in any case, why would one of the whitewalkers (who are very few in number) be wandering around alone with only a dozen or so wights to back him up?

The fight scene was a replay of the battle of the bastards. Jon Snow has to be one of the worst commanders in Westeros. His basic strategy seems to be holding out surrounded until the cavalry rides in to save his incompetent ass.

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49 minutes ago, Ice C said:

This also works the other way round, as I have stated in the "rating" thread: Why did not Dany kill him with her two remaining dragons? He was standing just a hundred metres away, she could have attacked and scorched him for good. End of the story.
Few made sense in this episode.

 

Well, welcome to the forum, Mr President! (sorry, couldn't resist)

 

 

And if it did not work? The other dragons would have died as well

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16 minutes ago, tugela said:

The fight scene was a replay of the battle of the bastards. Jon Snow has to be one of the worst commanders in Westeros. His basic strategy seems to be holding out surrounded until the cavalry rides in to save his incompetent ass.

But in the world of GoT, that always works, meaning it's actually a clever strategy, and Jon is one of the best commanders in Westeros.

Just like the Dothraki tactic of charging straight at a wall of shields and set spears instead of just going through the existing breaches or around the broken flanks always works (unless the people with the shields happen to be castrated), so it isn't stupid tactics, it's the reason the Dothraki are brilliant.

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I have a feeling that pretty much every time the dead rise, this exact scenario, more or less, plays out.

 

The NK knows that dragons are coming, because dragons are reborn by the Lord of Light's magic to counter his magic. The NK also knows to pretty much wait by the wall for the dragons to show up because he can use it to get across the wall, breaking whatever enchantment has been placed on the foundation of the wall. He's going over it. After that, the dead may pass.

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It was all a trap

  • NK was well prepared
  • The place the NK and AoD were when Bran saw them with the crows was the exact same place Jon and his companions were trapped
  • He knew exactly what to do, how to use Jon as bait and to lure him.
  • His plan was to wait for Daenerys to come save the day, targeting Viserion
  • High probability NK is a greenseer, potentially see ''future''
  • This could explain why he has taken so damn long, this potentially the only thing that can bring the wall down???
  • If you remember back to hardholme the wights literally through themselves off the cliff, I really dont think they would have been waiting for the Ice to melt over..... 
  • He used the distraction of Daenerys using Drogon to rescue the wight party to use his ice spear to kill Viserion

Jon was literally the bait so he could get the dragon....

 

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17 minutes ago, Theon_is_Azor said:

I have a feeling that pretty much every time the dead rise, this exact scenario, more or less, plays out.

Why?

The last (and possibly only) time the dead rose was 8000 years ago, when the Night King and his army were specifically created by the Children of the Forest to defeat the First Men, before in some way getting out of their control. The First Men didn't have dragons, or any other super beasts of war. In fact, the Valyrians didn't even have dragons until more than 3000 years later. The First Men's only advantage was that the Children switched sides, and told them about obsidian.

So, how could anything like this scenario have played out?

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20 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Jon was literally the bait so he could get the dragon....

 

Exactly this.

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Even the spear that killed Viserion seemed special somehow, because of the way it was handed to the NK. It's likely he was expecting the dragons all along and Viserion might play a part in bringing down the wall.

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31 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

Even the spear that killed Viserion seemed special somehow, because of the way it was handed to the NK. It's likely he was expecting the dragons all along and Viserion might play a part in bringing down the wall.

Of course he does. Once the night king crosses, the magic will be broken. The rest will be free to pass.

 

After that, the dragon will be pretty much useless. After all, the thing can't possibly breathe fire. It has no fire in it. It's dead.

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14 minutes ago, Theon_is_Azor said:

Of course he does. Once the night king crosses, the magic will be broken. The rest will be free to pass.

 

After that, the dragon will be pretty much useless. After all, the thing can't possibly breathe fire. It has no fire in it. It's dead.

He passes using the dragon and thats it.... the dragons gone. 

Why does the NK need it to breath fire??

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15 hours ago, falcotron said:

There's a much simpler reason to let them sit on the island: He was waiting for them to starve or freeze to death.

One of them already died, and the others surely can't make it much longer with inadequate protection and no food.

Meanwhile, when he tried to attack them, they killed hundreds of his wights. And I know wights are cheap, but still, why waste them? It's not like he's in a hurry.

Also, he seemed to enjoy watching them on that island. Not sure whether it's sadism, scientific curiosity, or zen meditation, but whatever it is, let him enjoy it.

Sure, maybe he considered the possibility that the only way they could possibly escape would be to get saved by dragon, and if so, he could kill and wight a dragon, which would be a cool bonus. But I don't think that was his plan.

I'd never really thought of that, they are in a dominant enough position to wait them out, I much prefer the Op's idea as it's one i considered myself, but i've a bad feeling we're going to have to come round to your conclusion as their motives probably won't be revealed in the show.

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1 hour ago, Theon_is_Azor said:

I have a feeling that pretty much every time the dead rise, this exact scenario, more or less, plays out

Just prior to every Long Night, a scarfaced dwarf comes up with the Stupidest Plan Ever. 

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46 minutes ago, Theon_is_Azor said:

After that, the dragon will be pretty much useless. After all, the thing can't possibly breathe fire. It has no fire in it. It's dead.

Jon's dead. Dead men don't have beating hearts, so howcome he's walking around? Magic. 

The Zombie Dragon will breath something. Maybe it'll be ice instead of fire, but if it were fire I wouldn't question the biology of it because it'd be weird zombie magic. 

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5 hours ago, Gendry_Goldeneyes said:

i dont think it was a trap, that would insinuate he knows about Dany and her dragons, which we have no knowledge of

 

i just think he's a patient man considering hes been planning this war for like a 1000 years

 

so we would just let them chill on the island and die

plus, one of them had a valaryian steel blade

I don't know, if lord of light followers can see visions in the flames the white walkers could see visions in ice haha. And the night King knows when wargs are around. He has the second sight bwa hah ha it was a trap

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3 minutes ago, darmody said:

Just prior to every Long Night, a scarfaced dwarf comes up with the Stupidest Plan Ever. 

"More or less".

Remember, this is all a ruse to keep the children of the forest protected from the realm of men.

 

They don't want to destroy men. If they wanted to do that, they would. Instead, they want a buffer. An ebb and flow. A grand plan that keeps the men at bay, while protecting themselves.

Once the wall was erected, there had to be a balance. The dead will find a way past. Which requires a dragon apparently. 

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1 hour ago, Theon_is_Azor said:

"More or less".

Remember, this is all a ruse to keep the children of the forest protected from the realm of men.

Well, it's not a very good one. Men took over the entire continent, and Leaf and her colleagues were the very last of the Children until they all got killed by wights protecting Bran and Meera.

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The "it was all a master plan" theory is obviously wrong.

Or, at the very least, stupidly written.

Why?

Well, because of two things:S

1-

If it was all part of the NK's master plan, it would confer him massive clairvoyance (really massive - yet believable/acceptable, given he's perceived to be some kind of god).

But, in that case, couldn't he see the threat that the prince that was promised, which was (almost certainly) on that island, or on top of drogon? It would imply he sees virtually EVERYTHING else, why not arbitrarily that? Even melissandre or even beric suspect something.

 

 

And that brings me to the most important point of all:

2-

Even if they killed off everyone in the island, the raven was sent, and dany would come to the rescue anyway!

It would make no difference. Then they just killed the dragon before dany even knew they could be killed (she would see the army of the dead, and still would try to take them down).

3- (bonus)

as soon as the ice solidified, the wights marched anyway.

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