Angel Eyes

Regarding Lord Rickard Stark’s Southron Ambitions,

28 posts in this topic

By the way, Danwell’s wife is a Whent no matter if she is Shella’s daughter. So she should be next in line for Harrenhal right? Is this a bug? Or GRRM simply forgot there is another Whent in Riverlands? 

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44 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

Lady Shella is dead. And since she is the last one, so this means all her 4 sons and her daughter died before her too? Pretty tragic. 

I wonder if the sons didn't die during Robert's Rebellion. 

38 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

By the way, Danwell’s wife is a Whent no matter if she is Shella’s daughter. So she should be next in line for Harrenhal right? Is this a bug? Or GRRM simply forgot there is another Whent in Riverlands? 

I don't think he forgot about this Whent, but Harrenhal was lost because the Lannisters hold the throne. I imagine it will be restored to the Whents or might go to the Wodes when everything is said and done.

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2 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

By the way, Danwell’s wife is a Whent no matter if she is Shella’s daughter. So she should be next in line for Harrenhal right? Is this a bug? Or GRRM simply forgot there is another Whent in Riverlands? 

She might be but it is equally possible Minisa Whent the Mother of Catelyn, Lysa and Edmure Tully came before her and if thats the case then the Tully's come first.

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12 hours ago, Livesundersink said:

Denys Arryn was married to one of Jon's nieces, the daughter of his sister, she and her son died shortly after Denys himself.

Yeah, good catch. But we still know of no possible betrothals for Elbert Arryn who became the heir to the Vale as soon as his father died. With Sansa in the Vale and the current Harry  situation going on there you'd think we'd get some more info on Elbert. He had to be one of the most desirable bachelors in Westeros during his time, yet we'v heard nothing of him so far in his homeland.  All we know is that he was cool enough to be in Brandon Stark's entourage.

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17 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Yeah, good catch. But we still know of no possible betrothals for Elbert Arryn who became the heir to the Vale as soon as his father died. With Sansa in the Vale and the current Harry  situation going on there you'd think we'd get some more info on Elbert. He had to be one of the most desirable bachelors in Westeros during his time, yet we'v heard nothing of him so far in his homeland.  All we know is that he was cool enough to be in Brandon Stark's entourage.

Yeah, i don't know what's up with that. I've heard a theory that Jon Arryn was an instigator of the betrothal between Lyanna and Robert and possibly had an influence in the one between Catelyn and Brandon. If this was the case then one would think that he would have tried to negotiate an advantageous betrothal for Elbert as well, but as you said there is almost no mention of him whatsoever. Of course he might just have done so, but we don't know it yet.

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1 hour ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Yeah, good catch. But we still know of no possible betrothals for Elbert Arryn who became the heir to the Vale as soon as his father died. With Sansa in the Vale and the current Harry  situation going on there you'd think we'd get some more info on Elbert. He had to be one of the most desirable bachelors in Westeros during his time, yet we'v heard nothing of him so far in his homeland.  All we know is that he was cool enough to be in Brandon Stark's entourage.

Elbert Arryn should have gotten much more text considering he is the heir of Vale, future overlord just like Brandon Stark or Robert or Jaime. Yet GRRM only said very little about him which made him much less important than what he should be. This made me feel that he was perhaps a later addition and only served as an addtional reason for Jon Arryn to rebel. 

 

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20 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

Not only Hoster Tully and his household were absent from tourney, but also Lord Rickard Stark. 

 

 

Rickard didn't come to the tourney because the "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell"

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5 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

Elbert Arryn should have gotten much more text considering he is the heir of Vale, future overlord just like Brandon Stark or Robert or Jaime. Yet GRRM only said very little about him which made him much less important than what he should be. This made me feel that he was perhaps a later addition and only served as an addtional reason for Jon Arryn to rebel. 

The more I think about it the more I think your right that he was maybe just an add on by the author.

One would assume that Aerys would have been advised by his council to keep Elbert as a hostage to use against Jon Arryn and the Vale. Perhaps even offering some sort of an exchange that involved Robert and Eddard, even if they suspected Jon Arryn wouldn't agree to it. Also, I could be wrong about this, but from what I can gather, Aerys sent a raven to Jon Arryn ordering him to kill Robert and Eddard after he had already killed his nephew and heir Elbert. I know he's the Mad King and everything but that move was more stupid then it was cruel. I mean Aerys saw the wisdom in keeping Jaime Lannister and Elia Martell around as possible hostages. Why not the heir of the Vale?

Lastly, as you said, Elbert's death should have had a much larger impact on RR as far as being a reason for Jon Arryn  to call his banners. It's made to seem the main reason Jon Arryn called his banners was because he would not kill his foster sons, while the murder of his nephew and heir was just a footnote. Elbert Arryn's death should be just as big of a reason for the Vale to rebel as anything else, IMO.

Edited by Ralphis Baratheon

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