Mad Monkey Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Mad Monkey- You forgot....DREAMWALKERS This is the main bad guy who can invade your mind at will and totally almost rape you unless you have fanatic devotion (on the order of chanting his name while prostrate 2 hours per day) to the GLORIOUS LEADER. This is basically the only reason the Dick is not in an asylum for being completely batshit insane. Remember, I only read the first book in it's entirety. The rest of the books, well, I only know them from the QOTD and Mad Moose's explanations. If this crap doesn't appear in the first book then as far as I'm concerned it never happened. Every time I see "Last post by: Mad Monkey" it's like a little ray of sunshine into my life. Thanks! Mad Monkey, you also forgot the giant stone bells that make everybody in front of them turn inside out or something. The perfect defense, rendered useless when Richard figures out, from the narrative's reference to people "hearing the chimes of death," that what you have to do is plug your ears. Well, you know what they say! Being the smartest guy in a Goodkind novel is like being the most articulate member of terrygoodkind.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Maid Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 I would give a lot to see Fyodor Dostoyevsky kick Terry Goodkind in the balls. I would give a lot to see anyone kick Terry in the balls. (and possibly cut them off and feed it to him. Har.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 You mean I get to freak you out with my BURNING GAZE, obssess over some girl, and then stabbify her? SCORE! Now all we need is our Nasstasia Fillipovna. Perhaps we sould stop before we go too far. Referencing Dostoevsky in a Goodkind thread might cause the world to explode. Kinda like when cold air meets warm air, but on a MUCH larger scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosicus Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 I also liked Señor Moose's suggestion, however, it can be said that he lacked the celery (and probably certain mod leniencies) in order to seize his destiny and create a new thread. I attribute this to his failing liver. My liver isn't failing. It's like the incredible Hulk. Every drink just makes it stronger and angrier. And greener. If I may be so bold as to ask a question, I have read about Terry Goodkind using magic as a plot device for ending his books, but having not read the books (why would I allow Goodkind to rape my brain when I can simply ask you instead ) I was wondering how that magic worked. The subtraactive and additive stuff. And the senseless artefacts, like these 'Boxes of Orden' or something. Tairy claims to have made the magic system as "real" as possible (I'll let that sink in for a bit). But he also claims that magic isn't there to get his characters out of trouble, apparently Dick always has to use reason (which is laughable) when of course they always use magic to get them out of everything. It's already been pointed out how absurd the whole additive/subtractive magic business is, though one example jumped to mind from WFR. Dick is going on about Zedd's lack of a beard. All wizards have beards, he claims. Zedd uses additive magic to "add" a beard (not yeard) to his face. However, the First Wizard, the Wind of Death himself, still has to use a razor to get rid of it, since only powerful subtractive magic can get rid of facial hair. Dick demonstrates this at the end of the next book by getting rid of his beard with one sweep of his hand. How I envy him. The Boxes of Orden are....well....stupid. They can transfer unto the user (if you do it right) complete mastery of the whole world and make everyone your slave. If you do it wrong, or if some ultra-clever seeker of truthiness tricks you, you die - possibly taking everybody with you if you really fuck up. Of course no explanation is ever given - or asked for by the "seeker of truth" - regarding where these things came from, who built them (some guy named Orden, I guess), if they've ever been used before, etc. You'd probably find a more interesting and believable artefact in some 14 year old bedwetting virgin's Dungeons and Dragons campaign. The Sword of Truth itself...fuck. It has the magical ability to discover new magical abilities whenever Dick needs them most. Later on, after discovering it, some prophecy will be dug up that will confirm that the sword had always had that power. Of course if this was written by someone who isn't a complete hack, it would happen the other way around. Sorcerers and Sorceresses. This is just dumb. At first it seems that Tairy needed magical women in his world, perhaps to soften his mysoginistic reputation. There's no feminine form of "wizard", so sorceress is the next best thing. But then later (FotF) a sorcerer comes out of the woodwork and Nicci reveals (not her boobs, sorry) that sorcerers and sorceresses are nothing compared to Dick and his magic. So we're back to square one, men can be mighty wizards, and women suck, unless they're eeevil and steal the "gift" from wizards (by skinning them alive and/or fucking a namble). Otherwise there seems to be no real distinction between wizard's magic and that of a sorcerer/ess, just in levels of power. Once again, Wizard = Mighty Man, Sorceress = Weak Woman. Any questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
word Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Tairy claims to have made the magic system as "real" as possible (I'll let that sink in for a bit). Don't forget that magic in the books is supposed to be like modern technology. Does that mean journey books = email? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WLU Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 ...? Been following the recommendation in the thread title? Job interview today. WLU don't deal well with stress so good. Grammar also not good stress potato. Did anybody else notice that The Wolf Maid doesn't know how roman numerals work? Maybe he's Tairy's brother. He who doesn't realize 'maid' implies a female shouldn't criticize misunderstandings of obsolete Mediterranean numbering systems I'm eating your celery. *munchmunchmunch* I would give a lot to see Fyodor Dostoyevsky kick Terry Goodkind in the balls. I'd give a lot to not see that 'cause it'd mean the Russian literary dead are rising from the grave and frankly Tolstoy gives me the heebee-jeebies even in the ground. 'Course, it would mean Yeardii would get it in the nuts... Now all we need is our Nasstasia Fillipovna. Perhaps we sould stop before we go too far. Referencing Dostoevsky in a Goodkind thread might cause the world to explode. Kinda like when cold air meets warm air, but on a MUCH larger scale. More like matter/antimatter or quality/antiquality. My liver isn't failing. It's like the incredible Hulk. Every drink just makes it stronger and angrier. And greener. I've heard fanfic does the same thing for Tairy. Tairy claims to have made the magic system as "real" as possible... Any questions? Why do we do this to ourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelp Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Why do we do this to ourselves? Because of a sick, sadomasochistic streak that we seem to share. ETA: this article on Ayn Rand is quite entertaining, imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dycedarg Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Job interview today. WLU don't deal well with stress so good. Grammar also not good stress potato. That makes two lemmings who had interviews today then. Tell me, did you feel the urge to kick your interviewer in the jaw? I felt my thing rising when he was asking me questions but I figured I'd let the death-chooser live for a little while longer (ie, until I hear whether I've got the job or not). I've heard fanfic does the same thing for Tairy. Sword of Truth fanfic? Now I'm really glad I've taken an extended leave of absence from the Pit, else I could lose what little sanity I have left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
word Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 He who doesn't realize 'maid' implies a female shouldn't criticize misunderstandings of obsolete Mediterranean numbering systems I'm eating your celery. *munchmunchmunch* What are you talking about? I clearly said "she" and "sister". Maybe you shouldnt quote me and then change the Words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Hey, I don't know if it has been said before, but I think I just found the official theme song of the sword of truth: wham!, note the pretty T-Shirts. Yet another proof that richard Rhal is actually the spiritual son of Georges Mickael and Ayn Rand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 And, yes word, I am a woman, not Tairy in drag. Really. I'd you to prove it, but I'm working right now, hands are quite full. Simple pictures will prove that. Until we photoshop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Will Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 My question is, if democracy took hold in Goodkind's world, what system of government might this take? It would take the form of a vaguely effeminate dictator who, every four years or so, at election time, promises the masses stew in every pot and a goat in every pen... and pink sugar... and a negative tax rate, but who, after winning the election by a landslide, has orgies in the houses of parliament, and walks around the streets beating the citizens and demanding that they work harder while instituting a 100% tax rate on everyone and swearing the nobody ever works hard enough and that the country will fall apart if he (the dictator) doesn't get more money. After another four years the dictator would suddenly give everyone Sundays off and promise them free sherbet when he is elected. The citizens would be so docile that they would believe every word of it and of course, the man would be elected again. Honestly Varys, I admire your spirit of inquiry and your desire to give Goodkind the benefit of the doubt but you're barking up entirely the wrong tree. There is no intellectual honesty in the Sword of Truth, nor any real need for consistency. There are four basic forces that hold the Yeardian universe together: straw, the strong thematic force, the stronger thematic force, and libido. Quarks also come in seven flavours: up, down, stupidity, moral clarity, demonisation, long speeches, and pants. What I'm trying to say is that, really, in Goodkind's world, things always work in the way they need to work in order to cast them in the right light. Democracy would fall apart there, not because of the flaws it actually does contain, but because Goodkind wants it to, and when Mr. Goodkind believes something is bad then it is impossible for it to have any redeeming features. We've even had democracy in the the Sword of Truth already. It was two people, with the same initials as the Clintons*, forcing everyone to have sex with them, and it was the populace voting to allowing a massive army to invade them just because the army promised to be nice. The people also chanted "give peace a chance" over and over again, because there is nothing like John Lennon lyrics in a fantasy novel to help with the suspension of disbelief. I suspect Goodkind has some (kind of) libertarian sympathies. So long as the libertarian state is governed by an unquestionable supreme ruler and none of the citizens are actually trusted to make any decisions because people are, you know, stupid and not equipped to decide when they need to go to the toilet, let alone anything else. Objectivism, in the Randian sense, certainly has libertarian leanings. She believed heavily in the free market, and seemed to want almost no government (at least that's what she seemed to be advocating in Atlas Shrugged). Still, like I said in a previous post, you don't want Goodkind in your corner. No matter how valid your point he will find a way to sully it. For example, rather than describing the actual flaws of the democratic system, he might just compare it to gang rape, and damage any sympathy that people might have for the initial argument, as well as doing all of the many things that WLU described in such detail. Goodkind is good at trite and offensive soundbites which seem like they might contain an element of insight if you look at them from the right side. But in reality they are empty, because Goodkind himself hasn't even understood the potential insight in his own gratuitous nonsense. Whatever deeper meaning you've discovered in the gang rape thing, rest assured that you have dug far deeper than Goodkind himself even thought of going in order to reach it. The man's about as deep as a fortune cookie. *What ever happened to these two, incidentally. I can't recall, now, whether they died at the end of SotF or not. Even if they did I am kind of expecting Goodkind to revive Hildegard for Confessor now that Hillary is in such a public position again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Tairy claims to have made the magic system as "real" as possible... Any questions? How much truth could a truth wielder wield if a truth wielder could wield truth...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
word Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 How much truth could a truth wielder wield if a truth wielder could wield truth...? Three And, yes word, I am a woman, not Tairy in drag. Really. I'd you to prove it, but I'm working right now, hands are quite full. Not sure how I missed that the first time. So when are you coming over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Will Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 How much truth could a truth wielder wield if a truth wielder could wield truth...? A truth wielder could wield no amount of truth since a truth wielder couldn't wield truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WLU Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 What are you talking about? I clearly said "she" and "sister". Maybe you shouldnt quote me and then change the Words. With those mad whitewhashing skilz you should either be a painter or work in PR. Or possibly a Kirkus interviewer. Seven minutes 'til DOOM time. Gotta change my shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarysTheSpider Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Honestly Varys, I admire your spirit of inquiry and your desire to give Goodkind the benefit of the doubt but you're barking up entirely the wrong tree. There is no intellectual honesty in the Sword of Truth, nor any real need for consistency. There are four basic forces that hold the Yeardian universe together: straw, the strong thematic force, the stronger thematic force, and libido. Quarks also come in seven flavours: up, down, stupidity, moral clarity, demonisation, long speeches, and pants. [...] What I'm trying to say is that, really, in Goodkind's world, things always work in the way they need to work in order to cast them in the right light. Democracy would fall apart there, not because of the flaws it actually does contain, but because Goodkind wants it to, and when Mr. Goodkind believes something is bad then it is impossible for it to have any redeeming features. [...] I suspect Goodkind has some (kind of) libertarian sympathies. So long as the libertarian state is governed by an unquestionable supreme ruler and none of the citizens are actually trusted to make any decisions because people are, you know, stupid and not equipped to decide when they need to go to the toilet, let alone anything else. Objectivism, in the Randian sense, certainly has libertarian leanings. She believed heavily in the free market, and seemed to want almost no government (at least that's what she seemed to be advocating in Atlas Shrugged). Still, like I said in a previous post, you don't want Goodkind in your corner. Sounds as though I should be glad I stopped three quarters of the way through WFR! Yeah, I guess I probably did give him far too much credit. It's rare that I put a book down unfinished, I should trust my instincts more. Oh, and excellent use of the word quarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
word Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 With those mad whitewhashing skilz you should either be a painter or work in PR. I believe it's skillz. Two 'l's thank you very much. The edit I made today to the post concerning The Wolf Maid has absolutely nothing to do with her gender, I accidentally spelled the word 'the' as 'teh'. I had teh correct gender all along... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanatic-Templar Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Mad Monkey, you also forgot the giant stone bells that make everybody in front of them turn inside out or something. The perfect defense, rendered useless when Richard figures out, from the narrative's reference to people "hearing the chimes of death," that what you have to do is plug your ears. Wait a sec. Aren't the chimes of death the things that manifest as chicken-that-is-not-chicken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Wait a sec. Aren't the chimes of death the things that manifest as chicken-that-is-not-chicken? They're both. Don't ask questions. Death Chooser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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