The Lands of Ice and Fire: a new map book out in Oct 2012

[idler]

Well, after AFfC, Bertelsmann Group positioned a special Random House daughter called "Penhaligon" in Germany just for the correct translation of GRRM books. They needed a few years for the new translation of the first 4 books and even made an annex with old and new translations of names and items.

ADwD was published in Germany in 2 parts; the first part was notorious for printing errors and nearly finished off Penhaligon; so to survive they had to make sure the second part would be really good; that's why ADwD part 2 wasn't published until August 2012 in Germany.

After several years as a radio operator in the German Navy and living a year in the US, I know some English for myself, and I daresay the German translation is excellent. I'm damn sure they asked Martin about it, since his line is really vague and may be misunderstood. After all, they were risking their jobs, cause they sold hundreds of thousands of books making their German readers believe Izembaro to be a person. The German language is very precise in that matter.

[Rodrik of Dorne]

Anyone else all of the sudden extremely interested in the lands to the far east?

Yes, but thing is, I doubt GRRM is going to detail them as much as he detailed Slavers Bay of the Free Cities. That's just sad.

To the far east of the known world Bonetown lies on the brim of a massive canyon (nearly the size of Slaver's Bay) called The Dry Deep. Judging by the artwork this thing seems 100 km deep or more.

K'Dath is located Northwest of Bonetown in the middle of desert/grasslands.

To the south of The Dry Deep is a transcription 'Cities of the Bloodless Men'. Bloodless Men? Literally or figuratively? WTF? And there are no cities marked, just the words 'CotBM' across what seems to be mixed desert and prairie.

Maybe the CotBM is a region full of scattered ruins, and the bloodless men are living mummies like the Undying of Qarth, who knows? I think GRRM is teasing us, and now we're like Westerosi men and women dreaming about distant places. We'll never know for sure what's in the CotBM, and maybe its the sole reason GRRM created a bunch of new places.

To the north of Bonetown and K'Dath are two deserts labeled 'Cannibal Sands' that straddle THE GREY WASTE. The western border of this area is a huge inland sea, the Bleeding Sea and on the map it is literally red.

Red water? Algae, maybe. Or magic.

The northern part of the continent is a forested region labeled Mossovy and a lesser area N'Ghai. A city by the name of Nefer lies at the mouth of a river that feeds into The Thousand Islands, a system of archipelago-esque landmasses at the southeastern part of The Shivering Sea, the northern edge of Essos.

Now I wonder if the Ibbenese whalers ever traveled beyond the Thousand Islands.

Also, have you considered the pattern of distribution of forest and grasslands in the northern reaches of Essos? It makes me think about western Eurasia, with the Turkic nomads ruling the steppes, the Finnic (and later Slavic) tribes living in the forested areas and the Kalerians and other Baltic-Finnic groups in the far north. In Essos you have the Dothraki Sea, the forested areas and then the northern reaches, where the Ibbenese have colonies. It makes a lot o sense. The forests of Essos probably harbor sedentary groups (like the "Ifeqevron"), unable to expand their farmlands into the grasslands due to the Dothraki screamers.

About the Ibbenese, we know their ancestors lived in the Hills of Andalos, before the Andals came from the east (maybe driven by the Rhoynar). That's a interesting pattern of migration (to the North and East), and maybe they colonized the cold northern shores (and Ib) after clashing with other agriculturalists and forest peoples.

[JonTargaryenW/Viserion4WIN]

About the Ibbenese, we know their ancestors lived in the Hills of Andalos, before the Andals came from the east (maybe driven by the Rhoynar). That's a interesting pattern of migration (to the North and East), and maybe they colonized the cold northern shores (and Ib) after clashing with other agriculturalists and forest peoples.

I always envisioned the Ibbenese as Inuit in lifestyle. Utilizing large marine mammals for sustenance and tool making. Excellent naval navigators. Maybe it's my Earthly bias to their apparent habitat?

Something else interesting. North of the Shadowlands lies the Mountain of the Morn. As in morning? As in the origin of human beings, the cradle of civilization maybe?

[TheMysteriousOne]

I've always wondered if he'll ever tell us the true origin of humanity, and dragons, the Others, the COTF etc.

[Nezzer]

I've always wondered if he'll ever tell us the true origin of humanity, and dragons, the Others, the COTF etc.

I don't think it's necessary. It could be basically the same origins as the humanity in real life. And magic could be within the laws of physics in that universe. Others, dragons and Children of the Forest could be just different species with no magical or divine origin.

[Benxz88]

I think GRRM is teasing us, and now we're like Westerosi men and women dreaming about distant places.

He is. On Not a Blog he said "The idea was to do something representing the lands and seas of which, say, a maester of the Citadel might be aware... and while the maesters know more about Asshai and the lands beyond than a medieval monk knew about Cathay, distance remains a factor, and past a certain point legends and myths will creep here. Here there be winged men, and such."

[Rodrik of Dorne]

I always envisioned the Ibbenese as Inuit in lifestyle. Utilizing large marine mammals for sustenance and tool making. Excellent naval navigators. Maybe it's my Earthly bias to their apparent habitat?

They're seamen, but not like the Inuits. They have "fat bellied whalers", and their lands are not that far north. I like to think about them as a Uralic people (like the Sami) with big ships.

Something else interesting. North of the Shadowlands lies the Mountain of the Morn. As in morning? As in the origin of human beings, the cradle of civilization maybe?

Maybe whoever baptized the mountain like that was in the west and saw the sun rising from behind it. It really looks like the end of the know world. The characters that make up the Japan's name mean "sun origin", maybe its something like that.

[Rodrik of Dorne]

He is. On Not a Blog he said "The idea was to do something representing the lands and seas of which, say, a maester of the Citadel might be aware... and while the maesters know more about Asshai and the lands beyond than a medieval monk knew about Cathay, distance remains a factor, and past a certain point legends and myths will creep here. Here there be winged men, and such."

You known the good thing about that? We'll never stop wondering what's in there.

[Nezzer]

You known the good thing about that? We'll never stop wondering what's in there.

Good thing? That's psychological torture, man! :crying:

Well, I suppose it's a good thing to keep us limited to the POV structure of the saga instead of being R'hllor :cool4:

[Spring Bass]

I'm loving that world map. As GRRM mentioned, the names of places started getting a little fuzzy and mythical as we get farther and farther away from Westeros. By the time we're at the longitude of Asshai, places have names like "land of the bloodless men" and "land of the winged men", where the only knowledge they would have in creating the maps would be the accounts of occasional travelers.

1. I didn't realize that Yi Ti was that close to Qarth. I always figured it as being a far-off China equivalent, since it's the source of several exotic trading goods.

2. What's up with Sothoryos? That top coastline is much less wide than I thought. Since the trading route in the Jade Sea is described as being "circular", I wonder if it fattens out farther south, kind of like an inverted Africa.

3. Ulthos seems to be another continent, albeit one which we'll never learn much about.

4. I'm very happy about finally finding out what "The Shadow" looks like, although it's much different from what I expected. It's a heavily mountainous land cut into two river valleys, the rivers of which converge at Asshai. I wonder why they call it "The Shadow" - is it a volcanic mountain range constantly full of ash and soot from the various smoking mountains?

In any case, I can now understand why dragons may have lived there. It's a lot like Valyria - heavily mountainous, possibly volcanic, warm place where they can nest.

All this makes me hugely excited for when the World of Ice and Fire Book comes out. Especially since GRRM has written a ton of lore for it, which he mentioned on his blog at one point IIRC.

[Magister of Lorath]

Loving the look of the Summer Isles :drool:

I've only seen fuzzy photos of the world map, so can anyone tell me What lies east of the bone mountains. From what I can see there is a large canyon and then the Bleeding Sea, but what else is there inbetween?

[JonTargaryenW/Viserion4WIN]

Loving the look of the Summer Isles :drool:

I've only seen fuzzy photos of the world map, so can anyone tell me What lies east of the bone mountains. From what I can see there is a large canyon and then the Bleeding Sea, but what else is there inbetween?

not looking at my map now but there is also a large depression called the Shrinking Sea. What looks like a sea from long ago that has dried up to reveal a large 'lake' at the bottom of a vast sink.

ETA: large lake still, not small by any means

[Ibbison from Ibben]

If people from the North are called Northerners, people from the Westerlands are called Westermen, and people from Dorne are called Dornishmen/Dornish.

I think people from the Stormlands are called Stormlanders.

What are people from the Vale called?

Valemen? Valians? Valish?

Velshmen. (Like Welshmen from Wales.)

Or the Reach?

Reachish? Reech (France->French)? Reachian?

Retches. Reacholians. Maybe Mandermen. (People who live in the Netherlands are Dutch or Dutchmen, so the name of the people doesn't necessarily have to come from the land.)

[LordBloodraven]

Velshmen. (Like Welshmen from Wales.)

Retches. Reacholians. Maybe Mandermen. (People who live in the Netherlands are Dutch or Dutchmen, so the name of the people doesn't necessarily have to come from the land.)

Valemen for those living in the Vale.

Westerners for the West

Reachmen for those in the Reach

Dornish for Dorne

Stormlanders for those in the Stormlands

Rivermen for those in the Riverlands

[Ice Turtle]

Are there any places not mentioned in he books on the map of Braavos? In the preview pictures there was only the Dome.

[Werthead]

Something else interesting. North of the Shadowlands lies the Mountain of the Morn. As in morning? As in the origin of human beings, the cradle of civilization maybe?

Possibly a reference to the Mountains of Mourne in Ireland, where GRRM and Parris have family connections and also where they've done some filming for the TV show. Just as I suspect Land of the Shrykes is a Dan Simmons reference.

[Rodrik of Dorne]

Now I have to ask about the locations of Raventree Hall and Stone Hedge, are they part of the maps?

[Bushido]

Is Casterly Rock drawn?? Similar to rock of Gibraltar?

[Cheese Pudding]

Because it's not really classified as a Book, in Brazil. Well, even Amazon doesn't classify it as a book.

Sad :crying:

But luckily Amazon is coming to Brazil, it may solve my problem.

--

Great previews from GRRM and the twitter pic. Essos is freaking huge and rectangular. The lands after the Bone Mountains are interesting, a shame that we'll never know them truly.

[AzureOwl]

Since is going to be the better part of a month before I get my copy, could a kind soul let me know if the two large lakes east of the Disputed Lands get names in these maps, or do they remain nameless?