Jon Snow vs Ramsey Bolton? what if....?

[Joshua the Frey Slayer]

If Jon wouldn't have been attacked by his own brothers and would have been allowed to take his host of wildlings south to Winterfell How do you think they would have done against Bolton and his coalition of northerners ? I can see Jon taking Ramsay's head off with long claw in a one on one fight, but I can't see a rag tag host of wildlings defeating a host of better armed and armored northern army. So what was Jon planning? Going south and getting destroyed? Im just wondering what others think on the matter

[Narea]

Well, I supposed that there are other ways into Winterfell than those gates...Jon having been raised as son of Eddard Stark would have been shown things others wouldn't have been privy to (especially sons of his enemies).

In which case Jon could use most of the wildling host as a diversion, take some wildlings (most trusted ones) with him into WF and open gates for them...or challenge Ramsay to single combat (doubt that he would or that Ramsay would accept). Anyway, I think it's pretty clear that he did have a plan other than besieging WF and starving it out...

[mcb]

A direct clash of armies would probably be a Bad Idea for the wildlings. But a bunch of small squads, setting up traps, killing outriders, and generally causing all sort of mischief, now that could play out differently. Also, winter has come - and the wildlings know winter better than anyone else. For them, even the Flints and the Wulls would be "southron jackanapes pissing their breeches at a little snow".

[Tagganaro]

Good question...I believe if it was known that Jon Snow was the one "attacking", a large majority of the Northern Lords would support him. So I'm not sure they would take up arms against Ned's "son". Jon has also been proven to be quite smart and tactically sound- I could see him finding an alternate way into WF or using some kind of diversionary tactics. He also has a probable ally in Mance inside already, who could possibly prepare and help him out. He'd join up with the Umber who has taken up outside the gates of WF as well.

The only problem would be the wildlings and the Northern lords...The Umbers would obviously want to support Jon but they also have a notorious hatred for wildlings so that'd be an interesting and combustible situation.

[Kittykatknits]

What Tag said.

And also, about the other big question when this subject comes up: Jon would be the one to win in a duel.

[Rickon Stark King of Wintr]

A duel between jon snow and ramsay bolton would be so satisfying. However, I think Theon's final redeeming act will be to kill ramsay/help bring down the boltons in some way.

[Theda Baratheon]

I think a lot of The North would have come over to Jon's side.

[Theda Baratheon]

A duel between jon snow and ramsay bolton would be so satisfying. However, I think Theon's final redeeming act will be to kill ramsay/help bring down the boltons in some way.

I love the idea of Theon killing Ramsay before he himself dies

[Joshua the Frey Slayer]

I agree that some of the northern lords would join up with Jon, but the fact that he would be leading an army of wildlings would put a huge strain on that. Plus, wouldn't Jon have been a deserter? That would put the northern lords in am even tougher position. We all know the penalty for desertion lol. I like the idea of Jon being the one to kill Bolton, but it would be just as good if Theon did it. Just as long as Bolton dies. Idk if I have ever hated a character more than him...... maybe Cersie lol

[Fire Eater]

A duel between jon snow and ramsay bolton would be so satisfying. However, I think Theon's final redeeming act will be to kill ramsay/help bring down the boltons in some way.

I think Jon could be the one to kill Ramsay and Roose.

His fingers closed around the parchment. Would that they could crush Ramsay Bolton's throat as easily?

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

I agree that some of the northern lords would join up with Jon, but the fact that he would be leading an army of wildlings would put a huge strain on that. Plus, wouldn't Jon have been a deserter? That would put the northern lords in am even tougher position. We all know the penalty for desertion lol. I like the idea of Jon being the one to kill Bolton, but it would be just as good if Theon did it. Just as long as Bolton dies. Idk if I have ever hated a character more than him...... maybe Cersie lol

They wouldn't have a huge problem with it if they already know that Jon has been crowned thier King by Robb. Most of them would turn on that knowledge alone. Considering they actually know that, which most of us suspect they do.

[Narea]

They wouldn't have a huge problem with it if they already know that Jon has been crowned thier King by Robb. Most of them would turn on that knowledge alone. Considering they actually know that, which most of us suspect they do.

Just a detail, though. Jon has not been crowned. He was named Robb's heir. What they do know is that he is a man of the NW, the LC and sure, as deserters were executed in the name of the king (Robert in AGoT) and Jon would be king there would be noone with authority to execute him BUT they don't know how Jon is going to react...it's kinda silly to declare for king that's not gonna make a claim.

[GarthKITN]

It seemed pretty clear from the scenes within Winterfell that the North pretty much hates the Boltons with a passion, and that they revere the Starks. They must know that Jon is the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and considering Ned made no secret that Jon was his son and Robb's brother, I think that if Jon had made it to Winterfell, even with the wildlings in tow, the North would have rallied around him. Manderly in particular, wouldn't have hesitated for one second to kill Roose and Ramsey Bolton. I don't think for a second they would have executed Jon for desertion. I think the hatred for the Boltons and what happened at the Red Wedding is so strong that seeing a Stark coming to retake Winterfell would more than excuse Jon in their eyes.

As for Jon being actually able to take the castle, I think he could have. Mance Rayder is around the North somewhere, Stannis is on the move to Winterfell and as others have noted, Jon has a strong a knowledge of Winterfell as anyone. Even without Jon Stannis still may take the castle.

And as for single combat between Jon and Ramsey, I wanted that SO bad. I remember reading the chapter where Jon charges up the wildlings and the Watch to follow him against Ramsey and man, I was fired up. After the Red Wedding, that was probably the biggest letdown of the entire series. I think Ramsay will die, but whether it comes at the hand of Jon, Stannis or Theon, I'm not sure.

[The GreatRon]

I think the only way a fair fight between Jon and Ramsay could ever happen is if everything around Ramsay is destroyed, nowhere to run, no bitches to hide behind, no Reek to take his place. Lets be honest, 1 on 1 Jon makes short work of Ramsay.

[Arya Targaryen]

The only problem would be the wildlings and the Northern lords...The Umbers would obviously want to support Jon but they also have a notorious hatred for wildlings so that'd be an interesting and combustible situation.

The Umbers vs wildlings problem would be easily solved, if it turns out (to be true) that Tormund was the one who stole Mors' daughter, and Toregg, Dryn and Munda are her children - Mors would gain 3 wildling grandchildren. Or at least one of them, like Tall Toregg. Or Munda may have a recognizable resemblance to her mother. (Though it might not be true, but it is one of my pet theories :unsure: )

And you have Stannis around as well, and his asshole knights. The northeners around are already making fun out of them. If they just have to spend some time around the wildlings (Tormund and co), I'm sure they would choose them over Stannis' knights any time. *Tormund and Mance fangirl mode off*

I think the only way a fair fight between Jon and Ramsay could ever happen is if everything around Ramsay is destroyed, nowhere to run, no bitches to hide behind, no Reek to take his place. Lets be honest, 1 on 1 Jon makes short work of Ramsay.

Ghost would take care of that :cool4:

The current Reek won't fool Jon

I want Ramsey vs Jon sooooo badly :crying:

[Tagganaro]

The Umbers vs wildlings problem would be easily solved, if it turns out (to be true) that Tormund was the one who stole Mors' daughter, and Toregg, Dryn and Munda are her children - Mors would gain 3 wildling grandchildren. Or at least one of them, like Tall Toregg. Or Munda may have a recognizable resemblance to her mother. (Though it might not be true, but it is one of my pet theories :unsure: )

I like this theory a lot as well, but I'm not sure I'd say even if it was true that the problem would be "easily solved". Whether there are blood relations or not, I'm not sure Mors would be perfectly happy seeing his grandchildren that were had as a result of his daughter being stolen and essentially raped by the wildlings. I do like the theory though that the washerwomen Mance specifically asked for where Umbers and the daughters and granddaughters of Northern lords. They might help to defuse a situation, but I suppose they could just as easily make it worse. Not really sure.

[Jon Snows Ghost]

Taking a look at the North as a whole at that point......I'd say Jon prevails with the help of Northmen (Save Dreadfort men) turning against Ramsay once they find out he's dueling it out with Ned Stark's last surviving son (so they think).

If it came down to one on one combat Jon wins against the undisciplined barbarian attack of the Bastard of Bolton.

[Jon Snows Ghost]

I agree that some of the northern lords would join up with Jon, but the fact that he would be leading an army of wildlings would put a huge strain on that. Plus, wouldn't Jon have been a deserter? That would put the northern lords in am even tougher position. We all know the penalty for desertion lol. I like the idea of Jon being the one to kill Bolton, but it would be just as good if Theon did it. Just as long as Bolton dies. Idk if I have ever hated a character more than him...... maybe Cersie lol

Would it be desertion if he just went to kick someones ass for calling you out personally? I don't know but it could be part of his defense if it came down to that.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

And then there's Stannis. And the rest of the North would want to join, as they all hate Bolton with a furious hate, with a few exceptions of course.

Jon Snow killing Ramsay Snow. Awh yeah.

[Full-Faced Braavosi]

I guess part of the question is what are the parameters of the hypothetical? Is it with Bolton at full strength or after he sends out the Freys and Manderlys?

From what we know of army strength, I believe Bolton and co. are said to have about 6000 soldiers. Initially Frey brought 2000 men with him, how many are still living, I don't know, but if the Manderlys and Freys are not involved, Bolton could be down to 2000-4000 men.

If all of the wildlings join Jon, Tormund claims he has 4000 with him, though it is speculated the number is somewhere north of 3000 in truth. This assumes that none of the northern lords or Stannis's host join in the battle (at which point it could be a massacre).

So in raw numbers it might be pretty equal (3k vs 3k). Bolton's men might include knights and mounted soldiers, but the Wildlings have some Giants which could easily be the value of many soldiers.

Strategically, taking back Winterfell could be difficult, though many have pointed out Jon's knowledge of it (plus the potential of Mance and spearwives on the inside - though it seems they could be captured) could lead to some infiltration.

But also don't discount this massive winter storm. It will probably negate the advantages of Bolton's mounted soldiers in battle, and the Wildlings are no doubt more used to fighting in such wintery mix than others.