Jump to content

By Odin's Beard

Members
  • Content count

    161
  • Joined

  • Last visited

About By Odin's Beard

  • Rank
    Squire

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

  1. By Odin's Beard

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    It is also interesting that the things that the "gods" forbid are exactly the things that the gods (weirwoods) are known for doing. Violating guest right, eating the flesh of men, body snatching. As you said the Rat Cook seems to be a metaphor for the weirwood, condemned to eat its own children. Robb Stark and the King's of Winter in the Crypts also deny the notion of guest right. They will not be disarmed in their own home, even in death. And they seal themselves up in weirwood-proof tombs. It is like Bran learned something from his time in Bloodraven's cave, and applied that when he founded House Stark as Brandon the Builder. Also, Robur is Latin for "strength", and, by derivation, "hard timber" or "oak" and Stark means “strong, stiff, obstinate, severe" or "rigid in or as if in death" Calls to mind "What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger " and "unbowed, unbend, unbroken" Like you say Luwin did teach him right from wrong, and Hodor fought Bran the best he could, and Bran knew what he was doing was wrong and tried to justify it by saying "I just want to be strong again for a while. I'll give it back, the way I always do." The way a child justifies stealing because they "were going to give it right back" even when they weren't. How old was Joffrey when he sliced open that mother cat and took the kittens out? Did Joffrey's age make him any less of a psychopath? And by all the laws of gods and men, what Bran does to Hodor was worse than Joffrey and that cat.
  2. By Odin's Beard

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    I like it. Also, we have a phrase here, "it's as rare as hen's teeth" meaning "it does not exist" I forget to mention that before. Change of subject, but while rereading Bran's cave chapters, the horror of Bran body-snatching Hodor struck me. Sweet little Bran is guilty of one of the worst possible things one person can do to another. Bran is worse than a dog-beater. "To eat of human meat was abomination, to mate as wolf with wolf was abomination, and to seize the body of another man was the worst abomination of all." And he commits this "worst abomination" just so he can explore some caves because he is bored and upset that he can't climb anymore. This is maximum psychological torture--probably worse than anything Ramsey Snow ever did. Are we supposed to think Bran worse than Ramsey?
  3. By Odin's Beard

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    Found the passages about the CoTF and their afterlife Jojen says "when they die, they went into the wood" but Bran interprets this as "you have to die to go into the wood." Jojen tells him, "yes, for most people you do have to die to go into the wood, but a few can go into the wood while still alive"--and Bran is one of those few, and Brynden was as well. Where is Jojen getting this info from? The relationship of the CoTF and the Weirwood directly parallels the Shkeen and the Greeshka from A Song For Lya. When an individual approaches the end of their life, they willingly sacrifice themselves to the hive-mind, to nourish it and to join their consciousness to the collective. Hodor finds a whole chamber full of enthroned CoTF. I don't think they consider it death though--it is second life. When the Shkeen go into the Greeshka, it digests their body within a couple days, the weirwood takes a lot longer.
  4. By Odin's Beard

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    No, you were not the concern troll, you and I were having a perfectly reasonable discussion, and reasonable differences of opinion were being debated. I noted in jest that the course of the conversation suddenly resembled the Monty Python dead parrot sketch--which I thought was funny. I did not mean for that reference to be offensive, nor did you seem to take offense at that reference, but then somebody else stepped in to be offended on your behalf, it was that person who I said was concern trolling. I am actually pretty zen, and disagreement is what moves the debate forward. As John Stuart Mill says: So, thank you for your service.
  5. By Odin's Beard

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    If Leaf was a native English speaker the phrase "he has lived" would indicate that the person being referenced is still alive. If the person was dead they would say "he did live" or "he lived" But I don't know how proficient she is in English, ESL speakers misuse phrases all the time. Also, I think there is a difference between the CoTF's concept of death and ours. Don't they all live second lives in the trees and birds? The second part "beyond his mortal span" indicates that he is dead. There was his mortal span of life, that ended, now we are beyond that.
  6. By Odin's Beard

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    Cause of death was blood loss--"desiccated flesh" Bran called it: Brynden is a "grisly talking corpse." His blood circulation has ceased, decomposition has started, neither of which are conducive to life. Medically dead. He has become one with the weirwood. The memories and personality of Brynden do remain in the hive-mind, so in a sense he is still "alive" If you found a body in a cave in this condition you would say "Yep, he's good, he's still alive"? "A little skin remained" means "most of the skin is gone." If a mostly-exposed-skull guy can be considered "alive" at what point would he be considered dead? Notice also that Bran says He did not say "the only thing that was alive" it only "looked alive" as in "it was not really alive." Concern trolling. I love that skit, and being compared to it is a great honor.
  7. By Odin's Beard

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    This conversation has officially turned into the Monty Python dead parrot sketch. "Bloodraven is not dead, he is merely resting." Medically, Bloodraven is dead. There is a force animating the dead body that used to be Brynden, but it is not Brynden as he does not have the power to raise the dead.
  8. By Odin's Beard

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    Also, he continues to have 3ec dreams even after he has arrived at the cave. I wish we knew what those dreams were. But to me this seems like the "Never the Obvious Suspect" trope--which is one of those cliches from a murder-mystery where they think they got the killer, but then more bodies turn up, therefore it could not be the guy they caught. Bran's dreams of crows, Bran is a crow, and a friend of crows. Bloodraven, ravens in the cave, Coldhands' ravens, Raven's Teeth The Raven's Teeth reminds of the binding of Fenrir, in which the gods have the dwarves make Gleipnir out of "impossible things" Raven's Teeth don't exist, birds don't have teeth. I think it is a nod to gleipnir, as Bloodraven is attempting to bind Bran to the trees.
  9. By Odin's Beard

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    Agreed. I wrote up a long post on this yesterday, but the editor ate it. Bran asks Bloodraven "are you the 3-eyed crow?" Bloodraven says "a. . .crow. Once aye." If I asked somebody "are you the 3-eyed-human?" and they replied "a . . . human? Once aye." They either did not understand the question, had no idea what you were talking about or they are dodging it. But whichever it is, his response clearly indicates that he is NOT the 3ec and doesn't know what a 3ec is. If Bran was an adult I would expect him to follow up Bloodraven's response with "you did not answer the question--are you the 3ec that visited me in dreams in the form of a crow when I was in a coma, and pecked open my third eye? Yes or no?" Add to that everytime one of their party asks either Coldhands, Leaf, or Bloodraven about 3ec they are not familiar with that name, assume they mean Bloodraven and say "oh, you mean the last greenseer" Watching in dreams is the only thing Bloodraven can do. I don't think he can interact. Bloodraven appears to Bran as a tree, and to Melisandre as a tree. Bran has dreams were the tree and the 3ec are both there, indicating they are different entities.
  10. By Odin's Beard

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    Bloodraven's bodily processes have ceased, he is described as being dead 10 different ways. Part of his face has rotted away, his skull shows through, and he has mushrooms and branches growing out of his head. The weirwood is not sustaining him, it was robbing him--using him up, it is a vampiric parasite bleeding him dry. (Just like the Undying wanted to do to Dany.) Now the only thing keeping him "alive" is the weirwood roots running through him, and it supplies the bare minimum for any sort of functioning. "the last coal in a dead fire" "Most of him has gone into the tree." Most, as in >50%, almost all, the majority of. Only a small fraction of Brynden remains. How long after Bran and company arrive at the cave is it until Bloodraven introduces himself as Brynden? His personal identity almost gone. He is more like a talking hand-puppet of the weirwood at this point, like the weirwood is doing an impersonation of Bloodraven. He is a desiccated husk. "Lord Brynden drew his life from the tree, Leaf told them. He did not eat, he did not drink. He slept, he dreamed, he watched." And you conveniently avoided the text that suggests that just the mere fact of being in the network as long as he has been would have caused him to lose his identity to it. When Stoneheart and Beric get resurrected, what gets reanimated is not the same person that died, its vital processes have stopped, it is changed. It is a zombie that has some of the memories of the host, but it is not the living person anymore.
  11. By Odin's Beard

    Dissecting Names

    Balor in Celtic myth The Fomorians are very similar to the Iron Born, so Balor is Euron, with the evil eye that wreaks destruction when opened.
  12. By Odin's Beard

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    I am surprised that in the current year, some people still think that the Others are the "bad guys" and they will face off against mankind who are the "good guys" "the whole concept of the Dark Lord, and good guys battling bad guys, Good versus Evil, while brilliantly handled in Tolkien, in the hands of many Tolkien successors, it has become kind of a cartoon. We don’t need any more Dark Lords, we don’t need any more, ‘Here are the good guys, they’re in white, there are the bad guys, they’re in black. And also, they’re really ugly, the bad guys" The Others are not Orcs, they are strange, beautiful fairy people. We just don't understand them. Yes, perhaps they were originally created by the CoTF and weirwood as a weapon against mankind, but the CoTF have since lost control of them, the Others now have their own agenda. The description we get of Bloodraven was crafted to raise extreme red flags about this guy--he is a partially decomposed grisly talking corpse. The man who was Lord Brynden is dead, and has been dead for a number of years. His life force was drained by the weirwood and the desiccated corpse animated by the weirwood is all that remains. After being outside of your body for too long (warging or in the network), personal identity is lost, subsumed by the host. If Bran almost loses his identity after a few days of warging into Summer, what would being in the weirwood for ~50 years do to Bloodraven? How much of him do we honestly think is left?
  13. By Odin's Beard

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    I can't get on board with the idea that that passage is just describing ordinary people transmogrified when seen through the lens of Cersei's ultra-elitism. They are truly abhorrent people, cockroaches, twisted, monstrous, hideous, the product of hundreds of years of dysgenic breeding. This is what living in large cities does to humans. I wasn't really suggesting that they are "the good guys", just that their way of life is closer to what George thinks is appropriate for human beings, closer-knit communities, without huge discrepancies between rich and poor. However, even the Starks' way of life is offensive to the hunter/gatherer Wildlings The smallfolk are destroying nature, destroying nature is bad.
  14. By Odin's Beard

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    We only have crows where I live, and the first time I went out west and saw I raven I was genuinely startled how big it was--literally twice the size, and its voice is totally different. There is no confusing the two. Not to further derail this discussion, but I think George has a pretty dim view of humanity in general. In Tuf Voyaging he sterilizes an entire planet of aliens who refuse to control their breeding. In Seven Times Never Kill Man, the Jaenshi are his ideal form of society, very small-scale tribes of 30 individuals, living at peace with nature and each other, and everything is in balance. This is contrasted with the Steel Angels who are militarist-expansionist totalitarians who just expand and consume nature, and bulldoze forests. He kills most of the Steel Angels off, and they begin to turn into Jaenshi. Jaenshi = Jainism, a religion of India that emphasizes living in harmony with nature. The Steel Angels are communist China (their uniforms are green/brown and they have red collars, just like the People's Liberation Army uniforms, they are highly regimented, and everyone eats the same amount of bland rations) and the Jaenshi are Tibet. The Chinese destroyed thousands of Tibetan Monasteries when they invaded, the Steel Angels destroyed the pyramids when they invaded. It is about fake communism destroying real communism. In ASOIAF the Starks' way of life is portrayed as the one of the best. There are no politics, they keep to themselves, its is sparsely populated, everything is calm and orderly, they live in peace with nature with the most part, and there are not huge disparities between the haves and have-nots. Contrast this with his depiction of King's Landing. How this figures into the story is that mankind brings their own destruction upon them, by being so shitty and straying too far from nature and balance.
  15. By Odin's Beard

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    The crow vs. raven distinction is important in Norse myth, and I think George has adopted that. Crows are Loki's animals and are tricksy and evil, ravens are Odin's animals and are wise and knowledgeable (his ravens Hugin and Munin, "thought and memory") But I get the impression that George has disdain for plebs and doesn't care what the masses get out his stories. Cercei's walk of shame shows what he thinks of smallfolk. He is not writing for them. I think he is writing to and for the top tier of writers throughout history--alive and dead, trying to one-up them.
×