Jump to content

Lady_Qohor

Members
  • Posts

    190
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Lady_Qohor

  1. I know many other characters have suffered fates far worse but I always feel sorry for the captain's daughter whom Theon sleeps with in ACOK. She keeps throwing herself at him publicly in the Iron Islands and he keeps rejecting her, its almost painful to read. She's not pretty, she's not smart, she's probably pregnant with a bastard, who knows how her father punished her after they left the Iron Islands, Theon 'ruined' her and he can't even be bothered to remember her name.
  2. Intro - Every now and then I come across the same argument on ASOIAF forums - that royal/noble women in Westeros are marry and/or give birth at unrealistically young ages. This statement is then countered by someone saying this just reflects the young marriage/pregnancy ages that were present in real life middle ages. Weirdly the example almost always given for this Margaret Beaufort who famously gave birth to Henry VII, despite contemporaries at the time registering shock that she had given birth so young. Because I had too much time on my hands this weekend, I decided to conduct some very rough research on Westerosi and European medieval queens to see if statistics could provide any further insight into this debate. Method - I didn't want to spend months researching marital and pregnancy ages across all of medieval European nobility, so I restricted myself to only looking at the women who had been named Queens of England, Scotland and France between the 11th mid century to the mid 16th century as these seem to be the settings and time period that inspire GRRM the most. I used that famously accurate research source Wikipedia, to determine these the ages these women were when they were first married and their first known childbirth (including known stillbirths). I then compared this data with the ages that Queens of Westeros were first married as well as their first known pregnancy, which I got from A Wiki of Ice and Fire. My Westerosi queens included disputed queens Daenerys, Rhaenrya and Selyse because I needed more data points (there are loads of French Queens during this period) Caveat - As with anything on this forum, obviously this is not to be taken too seriously. My sample for Westeros isn't huge and this comparison is just the best I can do using wikipedia. In some cases it uses estimated ages while in others it doesn't include the real or fictional queens for whom even estimates are much harder to establish e.g. Aelinor Penrose, Myriah Martell, Ethelreda of Northumbria. For some earlier queens, its also possible that there were first childbirths that were not well recorded (e.g. in the case of stillbirth or where the child did not live long) Results When you look at average ages for first marriages & childbirth, Westeros performs fairly well next to medieval Europe with real and fictional queens marrying around the age of 15/16 and giving birth for the first time around 20/21 Westeros England Scotland France Average age for first marriage 14.9 years 16.6 years 15.8 years 16 years Average age for first known childbirth 19.6 years 21.9 years 21.3 years 20.1 years However, the results for childbirth are somewhat skewed by a few late first time mothers such Visenya, Rhaenys, Adeliza of Louvain and Catherine Parr. As such I compared the % of Queens going through these life events when they were under 16. This showed a very different picture: Westeros England Scotland France % of first marriages made under the age of 16 61% 50% 50% 54% % of first known childbirths under the age of 16 28% 4% 8% 9% Conclusions (aka TLDR) While medieval European queens do have a few very young childbirths among them (e.g. Eleanor of Castille aged 13.5 years), Westeros has a much higher proportion of queens/future queens giving birth very young (e.g. Aemma Arryn, Rhaella, Daenerys) It should also be noted that in cases of real life Queens giving birth at a very young age, the child did not often survive Westerosi Queens are also more likely to get married at a younger age when compared to their European counterparts (although the difference is less stark) However there are still cases in medieval Europe of royal women marrying ridiculously young (e.g. Isabella of Valois, Joan of the Tower, Charlotte of Savoy) as there is in Westeros (e.g. Jaehaera Targaryen, Daenaera Velaryon)
  3. The problem is that the two things are linked. More open immigration would improve the growth and has economic benefits, that's why Truss wanted it. Sunak presents himself as a very sound economist (and in some ways he is) but he's also against a load of stuff that would bring economic benefits (e.g. immigration, the EU, onshore wind) in order to appease the right wing culture warriors and further his own career.
  4. This is a really interesting topic. Daenerys' side definitely has the advantage but there are plenty of instances in history where a rich country has failed to win against a poor country. The Westerosi have the home ground advantage.
  5. I tend to think its a bit more complicated than that and that these stories have elements of both truth and misdirection, like stories that are passed on in real life. To be clear, I'm not saying that Meera is lying or mistaken. She probably is giving an fully accurate picture of what happened at Harrenhall but I just wanted to point out that we can't know that for certain.
  6. Meera wasn't born yet. She's getting her account second hand. She may not be aware of the full picture. Alternatively she may have left things out of her tale that she didn't think were important.
  7. Maybe the fisherman's daughter got with some random Northerner who pretended to Lord Stark in order to impress her. There's no mass media, how's she going to know he was lying.
  8. Maybe the Valyrians were reluctant to damage the city and put off using dragons or only used them very sparingly. After all what is the point of being kings of the ashes when with a bit more patience you could potentially gain a great city with all its art, architecture, wealth, technology, knowledge and labour force. The Westerosi lords were at a disadvantage in this regard, with the exception of the Hightowers, they lived often lived apart from the bulk of their people and infrastructure, making them more vulnerable to dragon attack. Also the Ghiscari could have had scorpions.
  9. Seriously who wrote this? The Treasury is full of young people who live in London and don't get paid much (at least in comparison to other government departments). They should know exactly how stupid this is. Are they trolling Kwarteng or was this written by a etonion spad from a stupidly wealthy family, who's parents pay for everything?
  10. I deleted it because I wasn't sure that it was in keeping with the tone of the thread and I didn't want to offend anyone who might be legitimately grieving. Apologies if that was the case to anyone who saw it. But...yeah, I think that calling her "the great" is somewhat an example of recency bias/losing perspective. Having a long reign wasn't an achievement; it was a combination of her father dying too young and having access to amazing healthcare.
  11. I think weirdly Scott Mills leaving Radio 1 actually had an even bigger impact on me, even if that impact was still quite small. I didn't even listen to him that regularly (especially since they moved his time slot) but its weird that I feel like a radio DJ had a bigger impact on my life than the Head of State. I guess that just shows how useless the monarchy actually is.
  12. We have no idea how she thought of us, that was the secret of her success. She barely spoke, let alone expressed opinions. As a result, people project what they want onto her. For all we know she could have been a die hard socialist, elitest facist or anything in between.
  13. I mean...just because something happens all the time, does not mean its not icky.
  14. I don't know if dreading is the right word for me. I kind of see it as a weird well-funded fanfic project (rather than part of the ASOIAF canon) and fanfic can range from great to mediocre to truly dire.
  15. I don't see how they can and for it to fit into the rest of the story, but I can't think of a reason why they would bring up this prophecy if it wasn't going to play a bigger part later on. One thought I did have, that I hope doesn't come true is that Rhaenrya spends the start of the war, stuck on Dragonstone, recovering from childbirth. That may not make for great TV, so the writers might decide to send her North to tackle a new Wight walker threat. The implication being that Rhaenrya damages her chances of getting the Throne (and maybe her sanity) in order to save the realm, drawing a parralell with Daenerys. I hope that's not what happens, its lazy writing and I prefer my targaryens (and other fictional Lords) to be selfish rather than noble
  16. Jokes aside, it would be kind of refreshing to have a main character die from natural causes (that isn't old age or childbirth). This is the middle ages, people should be dropping like flies from dysentry, tuberculosis and plague all over the place.
  17. I wouldn't at all be surprised if Ramsay isn't killed by his dogs (probably the closest to things he loves), as in the show. Were this an ordinary story, I would predict that Theon or Jeyne would be the one to 'pull the trigger' but you never know with GRRM, and it could easily be someone like Roose or Mance. I'd actually kind of love it if Fat Walda kills him in defence of her baby but I think that's unlikely
  18. Surely its ok to change a few minor things from the book if it results in a better viewing experience. Does a minor bit of lore really matter as much as ensuring that a significant portion of the audience feel as though they too are part of the Game of Thrones world? I also think we have to be careful here. It feels like some of the people criticising black Velaryons didn't quibble nearly so much that Daenerys wasn't played by a 13 year old actress, that Bran & Rickon didn't have red hair, that Jon Snow's hair was black rather than brown, that Olenna Tyrell wasn't as tiny as described in the book or that Charles Dance didn't have side burns.
  19. I assumed it was just an expression, maybe a hangover from times when more people in the south worshiped the old gods and as a result there were more mixed faith families. Or it could just be people being extra, like 'I take this vow so seriously that I'm swearing it before all the gods that might possible exist, even if I don't believe in them'
  20. I wouldn't say so. There are a lot of women who were denied the right to inherit power and land because of male preference primogeniture during the Middle Ages. Think about, if simple primogeniture existed half the monarchy and nobility of Europe would have been women instead of only rare examples such as Eleanor of Aquitaine and Joanna. Plus, if half the power in medieval Europe was held by women, its not a stretch to imagine that they might have made it so life was less restrictive for royal/noble women who didn't inherit/
  21. It's not pleasant to think that there is deep rooted sexism in a world that we enjoy and often accepted by characters that we love and it's tempting to try to explain individual instances away. However, when you look at the picture as a whole, I think it is pretty clear that there is strong discrimination against women in Westeros (with the possible exception of Dorne) Examples of institutional sexism in Westeros include: Governance and Wealth Male preference primogeniture - throughout the kingdom (with the exception of Dorne), older sisters are consistently and legally passed over for younger brothers. As such it is significantly more unlikely that a woman can own property or gain a position of leige lord or monarch Small council - of the around 160 named members of the Small Council throughout history, only 6 have been women Academia Women are forbidden from becoming Maesters Faith Although women can become septas, they are not allowed to become septons which means that they can never lead worship or become High Septon Military Women are forbidden from joining the Night's Watch There are no known instances of women becoming knights, suggesting that they are banned from the profession Of the over 100 Kingsguard members named, only 1 (Brienne) is female Domestic violence Rule of thumb and Rule of Six - Men are allowed to beat their adulterous wives six times with a rod no wider than their thumb, aka domestic violence is legal Marital rape - it's unclear if marital rape is legal but if this world is anything like the middle ages then it probably is. It certainly appears that powerful men can beat and rape their wives (e.g. Aerys II, Robert, Ramsey) in the full knowledge of those around them and get away with it.
  22. Interestingly in the Anarchy (which the Dance of the Dragons is based on), the male claimant (Stephen of Blois) had a much weaker claim than Daemon. Daemon is the brother of a King and a direct descendant of Aegon the Conqueror through the male line. Meanwhile, Stephen was the nephew of the previous King and the third son of William the Conqueror's daughter (not direct male line). The English and Norman aristocracy were well aware of the concept of a Queen regnant, but that doesn't mean they weren't willing to go to war when the prospect of Matilda sitting on the throne actually became a reality.
  23. What are people's plans for the jubilee bank holiday weekend? I'm a bit quite annoyed as I feel like if I go out and have fun then I'm implicitly condoning an undemocratic system that I really don't support. As sad, as it is, I might just use the extra bank holidays for work stuff.
×
×
  • Create New...