three-eyed monkey

I was talking about Transformers.

Margaret Atwoods standards are obviously lower than mine, and I'm not just talking about writing. If there were no true linear scale of good and bad writing then there would be no such thing as a classic. Not everyone will agree with the scale but it does exist. Good writers are good writers because they know what works and what does not. Of course it won't work for everybody, it never does, but if it doesn't work for a really good share of your readers then you're probably not writing very well. You're right to say Transformers was popular but crap. They are two separate things. Doing well at the box office is one thing, advertising and hype have a lot to do with that, but when you look at the characters, plot, etc., it is easy to see that the writing is crap. That doesn't mean there aren't people with lower standards or perhaps an emotional attachment that think it is great and will defend it come what may, but the consensus is that it's crap. Anyway, In my opinion it's a 3.

I'm not speaking for anyone else on the matter. I gave the show a rating of 3, not because I'm butthurt about the books, but because in my opinion the writing is very poor in the show. Storytelling is an art that has been refined over millennia and while everyone is entitled to their opinion, quality of writing is actually quite measurable by a number of metrics. Agents, editors, publishers, critics, academics, and indeed readers, do this every day. If it is your opinion that the show is well written, that's fine, rate it appropriately. We've obviously got different standards. And please, I'm not complaining about Areo being killed or a mute direwolf howling or any of that nitpicky stuff. I'm talking about things like plausibility, character motives, what's driving the plot, etc. In my opinion, the show is weak in all these areas, which comes down to the writing.

No, it boils down to this. Good writing and bad writing. The books are well written, the show is not. Sure you can find some holes in the books if you nitpick it but the holes on the show are glaring. I'm not talking about book v show, I'm looking at the show as it's own entity, and the writing is just rubbish. I'm not complaining about Areo getting killed easily, I'm talking about the total improbability that a bunch of psycho bastard girls could take over Dorne so easily. I'm talking about why they didn't just kill Mycella and Trystane, and Jaime too for that matter, while they were still in Dorne? Why let them on the ship, poison one before the ship has left sight of the Dornish coast and then ride?/sail? all the way to Kings Landing to kill the other on the hope that he will still be accessible in the cabin of his ship and not in say locked away in a Black Cell instead? Are you really attempting to defend that? The show is nonsense. 3 is generous.

I gave it a 3. The writing on the show is just utter nonsense. It's more like a nod to GRRM's time on the twilight zone than it is an adaptation of his novels. On a positive note, I'm pretty confident that TWoW will not be spoiled this season as the show bears little resemblance to the books. Going their own way was the best call D&D ever made. Thanks guys. Oh, I wanna say something about the teleporting sand snakes and how the scene cruelly exposed Trystane as an absolute idiot who would have brought misery to his people if ever he had come to rule... but the words just aren't coming.

Oops. Apologies for the double post.

I agree with everything you've said Modesty, except this last bit. Nothing can save the show now. It has become a farce and the antithesis of good storytelling. Even by television standards the writing is dreadful.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/104527-howland-reed-high-septon/

I know everyone favours Mance as the author, but I still think Stannis wrote the Pink Letter. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/89829-stannis-wrote-the-pink-letter-long/ And I know everyone thinks Stannis was duped by the Mance/Rattleshirt switch but... http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/91687-stannis-knew-about-the-mancerattleshirt-switch/ But there's also something shady about Ser Robert Strong: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/114294-the-genesis-of-ser-robert-strong-shadow-assassin/

38 pages in and no Mills and Boon homages yet? 'Betrothed to a Barbarian' anyone??? :bang: But didn't GRRM say somewhere that he once lost a bet on a football game between NY and Dallas to a friend of his named Patrick, and as a result of losing the bet his friend got a charcter named after him and so we got Ser Patrek of King's Mountain with silver stars on a blue field which is a nod to the Dallas Cowboys. Funny how George's team was the Giants. Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun one wonders.