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three-eyed monkey

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  • Spanker of one-eyed monkey.
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  1. GRRM said the show and books have separate canons. He emphasized the point with the question about the number of children Scarlett O'Hara had. The answer is different, depending on whether you're reading the novel or watching the movie, but both answers are right because the novel and the movie have separate canons. In my opinion we should not treat anything from the show canon as book canon, regardless of who wrote it. Of course there are some similarities as the show is based on the books, but even in instances where the show and books absolutely agree, they remain scenes and chapters of stories with separate canons.
  2. I understand your objection, even if we disagree. Hopefully I clarified that point in the OP. The treason is committed by the Harpies and the fire is the black-walled heart of Old Volantis, regardless of the larger conspiracy I'm proposing that connects both.
  3. The leap from slavers like the Harpies of Meereen to the Old Blood of Volantis is too big for some perhaps so I've clarified the point in the OP. The treason is being committed by the slavers. In Meereen this is the Harpies. I'm sure we can all agree that the Harpies are treasonous towards Dany. The Sons of the Harpy, the poisoned locusts, etc. So that's the treason. You say not all slavers are committing treason, just the Harpies, but you cannot deny that all the slavers from Yunkai where the Wise Masters returned to power, to Old Ghis who are sending legions against her, to Volantis who are sending a fleet to blockade Meereen, have taken the side of the Harpies who are committing the treason. One of the mysteries presented is who is the Harpy? Who is at the heart of the conspiracy against Dany? Is it the Green Grace or Hizdahr or someone else? I believe the answer to that mystery is that the Old Blood of Volantis are at the heart of the conspiracy. Dany has effectively united the tigers and elephants against her, unbeknownst to her yet, because her stance against slavery is threatening their wealth. The second fire will be the black-walled heart of Old Volantis. The heart or root of the conspiracy. When Dany returns on Drogon, having woken the dragon and with a hundred thousand Dothraki screamers at her back, do you really think she will discriminate between the Harpies and those who backed the Harpies, such as the legions of Old Ghis or the Volantene fleet? Even if you argue that Volantis or Old Ghis have technically committed no treason, I doubt very much that Dany will see it that way. The important point in terms of the story is really the character choice she is in the process of making, her second plot-point. In Meereen Dany wanted to rule in peace and she made compromises, like marrying Hizdahr and opening the fighting pits. She hoped that if she did this then all the armies would melt away. She thought about arresting people like Reznak who she did not trust but knew that other betrayers might well rise to take his place, if indeed he was even guilty. She didn't know who to trust or how to solve the problems of ruling, especially when the previous rulers of Meereen didn't want her usurping their rule. She wants to rule in peace but the slavers will never let that happen. So she will now take a different approach and wake the dragon. The silver queen of Meereen will change mount and become the dragon queen instead. By the time Silver reaches the darkling stream, which I believe represents the Rhoyne, Dany will no longer be mounted on her. When she burns the heart of Old Volantis and the heart of the old establishment, she will evoke the symbolism of the fiery heart, because the followers of the Red God will see her as the prophesied savior Benerro speaks of who has come to make the world anew. All of this allows Dany to consolidate her position in Essos and finally turn for Westeros and the final act of her story.
  4. The treason is committed by the slavers, for the gold that flows from the slave trade. In Meereen this is the Harpies, but Dany doesn't know who the head of the Harpies is. Barristan suspects it is Hizdahr but in fact the conspiracy against Dany runs much deeper. We know this a readers because we have other information from pov's like Tyrion and Victarion in Volantis and that helps us understand this. I mean, the fact that Volantis is sending a fleet to join the slaver alliance assembling against her shows what side they are on. The slavers' side. Dany herself knows there are people plotting against her and is mindful of treason. The problem is that if she arrests a betrayer then some other betrayer will only take his place. She has the right of it, and must learn that there is only one way to deal with the treason. The fire is the black-walled heart of Volantis, which she will come to understand is the root of the slaver conspiracy against her, and she will light the fire for the death of the slaver establishment. Dany does not have a prior relationship with Volantis, but the slavers who are committing treason against her clearly do. So just to be clear, treason for gold by the slavers for the gold that flows from the slave trade, and the fire for death is Volantis for the death of the slave trade.
  5. She is the queen of Meereen, she married Hizdahr for peace, but the Harpies are betraying her, that means they are not really allies.
  6. No, she is queen of Meereen. And she is opposed by the slavers, which is why she took hostages from the powerful families. Clearly whoever sent the poisoned locusts was committing treason. Even if you think they were for Hizdahr, which I doubt very much, then it is still treason because it kills her king and breaks the marriage Dany made for peace. So the treason is being committed against the queen of Meereen by the Harpies, including Hizdahr. He wanted Dany to eat the locusts and he wanted Drogon killed. However, the slaver conspiracy against her runs far deeper than the Harpies. It includes, Old Ghis and Volantis and everything in between, and we know this because they are sending armies against her. Dany is not the queen of Volantis and I never said she was. Volantis is ruled by triarchs selected by the ruling class, the Old Blood, who dwell in the black-walled heart of the city. One of these triarchs, Nyessos, we are told owes much of his wealth to the slave trade. I doubt he's the only one. The wealth of the Old Blood is largely built on slavery. It is why the elephants and tigers have united and are sending a fleet against her. The black-walled heart of Old Volantis, symbolizes the black heart of the slaver economy. This is the root of the treason being committed by the Harpies and Meereen, which are but a branch, and Dany will burn the treason at it's root. I'm curious as to what you think the treason for gold, the mount for dread and the fire for death refer to? The story has changed but the structure has not. Dany's story will still have three acts, major plot-points, and a resolution to her arc, regardless of whether there is a five year gap or a ten year gap or no gap. GRRM knows where he's going, even if how he gets there has changed. It's the same with Illyrio, he wants Aegon on the throne even if the plan to get him there has changed along the way. Dany needs to give herself willingly, that's the point of the Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa story. That's the difference between sacrifice and true sacrifice. The only true sacrifice is self sacrifice.
  7. The Harpies are betraying Daenerys, but they are only the tip of the spear. Dany is trying to compromise and come to terms, like through marriage or re-opening the fighting pits, but the people she is trying to compromise with are meanwhile plotting with their slaver allies behind her back to bring her down. Mirri Maz Durr was not really a friend of Dany's either. Dany foolishly trusted her to restore Drogo, but Mirri had different plans. Dany is making the same mistake with the slavers by trying to compromise with them.
  8. The treason is being committed by the the slavers for the gold that flows from the slave trade. The slavers include the Harpies of Meereen and the Wise Masters of Yunkai, but the slaving establishment stretches far beyond Slavers Bay to Old Ghis and Volantis, all of whom are aligning with the Harpies and Yunkai against Dany. However, it is the black-walled heart of Old Volantis where the Old Blood reside that is the fire she must light for death. The death of the old establishment. That is the heart of the slaver establishment, and it will soon be transformed into a fiery heart, which is very symbolic of the Red God because this is the point where the slaves of Volantis, who do not dwell within the black-walled heart of the city, will rise for Dany and the red priests will declare her to be Azor Ahai returned. No, but aligning with treasonous enemies is. Volantis is aligned with the Harpies and Wise Masters.
  9. You can disagree about the hero's journey structure of Dany's arc but as I demonstrated, the steps are there. The point about the fires and plot-points however is based on the three acts of her story. I suppose you could argue that it's not a three act story but I think that argument is weak too. Even if we leave the structure out of it and put it in simple terms, I'm proposing that the three fires represent three main decisions Dany will have to make that are turning points in her story. I agree that the story is not complete, but that has nothing to do with the structure of the story no more than it has anything to do with the pov structure GRRM chose. Those decisions are already made and will hold all the way until the end. I never said she was. Dany is a queen and treasons are committed by her enemies, and her enemies are not just in Meereen. The whole slave-based establishment is aligning against her. I'm not trying to show Dany is a hero by saying she has a hero's journey. Character-arcs can be negative as well as positive, regardless of their structure, so they can lead to villains or heroes, depending on how the arc is resolved. I think Dany will be a hero but I think there will be several heroes, some of them tragic like Dany, but others will fail to resolve their arcs positively. I'm just analyzing Dany's arc as written by GRRM, her inner-conflict, her journey, and how we have been given hints to how her arc will be resolved, such as the three fires. If you have an alternative interpretation of the mounts and treasons and fires, then of course I'm all eyes. Of course it is, that's the same for every character. However, that's where we readers pick up the live action because her hero's journey is about to begin with the initiating incident. Dany's hero's journey is quite clear, both in broad strokes and when broken down step by step. The definition of each of these steps is not meaningless, and Dany's story matches the defined steps as demonstrated. There's nothing unusual about that, that's how the vast majority of stories are structured. I'm not working backwards. Read the OP again, I start at the start and move forward through her journey, from initiating incident, through the three acts and the major plot-points to the resolution. I don't know what you mean by for the assumption of a trope? If you mean I'm assuming she will be a hero and starting there, then I disagree. I'm following her journey through two of three acts based on the story we have so far, and then speculating where the last act will go based on the clues we've been given.
  10. Thank you. Well my main points refer to the three-act structure of Dany's story, and the three main plot-points that end each act. I think Dany's story clearly is in the hero's journey format, same as Jon, Bran, Sansa, and several others. I can break the steps down a little further if need be, but I was trying not to delve too deep into the technical side of things. That's why I took the most fundamental form of the hero's journey, departure, initiation, and return, to demonstrate the three acts. I believe Dany’s character-arc is clearly constructed in the style of the Hero’s Journey. Her story fits the common structure in which the hero departs their known world for the unknown, where they undertake a transformative journey through a series of trials and tests, before returning with the power to bestow a great boon upon mankind. Joseph Campbell, in his seminal book, The Hero with a Thousand Faces, broke this journey down into three stages, departure, initiation, and return. Different versions of the hero’s journey have spawned over the years and the terminology can vary from version to version, but the principles of the journey always remain the same. I believe Dany’s arc fits a common twelve-step format, which is created by subdividing each of Campbell’s three stages into four steps. As such, the first four steps are the departure, the next four steps form the initiation, and the final four steps are the return. This is how I see Dany’s journey fitting those twelve steps. 1. Ordinary World. The life Dany knew as a child, moving through the Free Cities with Viserys, was her ordinary world. 2. Inciting Incident. The inciting incident is Dany’s marriage to Drogo, which removes her from the ordinary world she is familiar with. The departure is now underway. 3. Refusing the Call. While Dany was eager to accept the quest, she had doubts and fears to overcome that lead to her refusing the call. She did not want to marry a barbarian, nor be traded away for an army. Dany’s initial doubts and fears were overcome when she fell in love with Drogo, and after the death of Viserys, she once again considered abandoning her goal. She weighed a comfortable life as Drogo’s queen against the perilous road her quest for the Iron Throne was certain to take and concluded that life as a khaleesi, as comfortable as it may be, was no life for a dragon. Overcoming the refusal marks the beginning of an increasing level of commitment to the hero’s goal, despite the risks involved. 4. Meeting the Mentor. Dany then met the mentor in the form of Mirri Maz Duur. Some might find it odd to count Mirri amongst Dany’s mentors, and this is what I mean by GRRM writing typical steps of the journey in atypical ways. The maegi’s impact on Dany’s arc led to the funeral pyre and the subsequent birth of the three hatchlings, which set Dany firmly on the path to being a Dragon. That is the role of the mentor character, to set the hero on the path they need to take, even if mentor characters are usually more supportive to the hero. Dany has several mentors, but meeting Mirri at this stage suggests to me that she is the mentor who will have most impact on the decision Dany must make when it comes to resolving her arc at her final plot point. Dany must come to understand Mirri’s point about conquerors like Drogo and why Mirri did what she did. The pyre marks the end of Dany’s departure and first act, and begins her second act and her initiation as a queen. 5. Crossing the Threshold. When the smoke of the funeral pyre cleared, Dany crosses the threshold into the unknown. This marks the beginning of her initiation. She entered the story as a pawn, moved by men who play the game of thrones, but by the end of the first book she had begun her own journey to become a player. She was in command now, though her followers were few. She considered the Bleeding Star to herald her coming and point the way so she moved into the Red Waste, quickly learning the weight of her responsibilities as the most vulnerable of her tiny khalasar begin to perish on the hard road she had chosen. 6. The Belly of the Whale. Having moved into the unknown, Dany had to learn the rules of her new world, such as who she can trust and who she cannot. This stage of the hero’s journey is often called tests, allies and enemies. In Qarth, Dany resists seduction and the temptation to abandon her perilous journey, dismissing the likes of Xaro Xhoan Daxos and the Undying of Qarth to stay firmly on course. When Dany burned the House of the Undying, she emerged from the belly of the whale, and passed the point of no return. If you picture the hero’s journey as a clockwise circle, she passes six o’clock, so the shortest way back now is to keep going. 7. Approach to the Innermost Cave. Dany’s approach to the innermost cave was made through Astapor and Yunkai. This is where the hero gathers resources for the ordeals ahead, such as when Dany obtained an army. Not only did she approach a location of great danger, in Meereen, she also faced increased inner-conflict, caught between her pure ideals as a queen and the muddy reality of ruling. Dany’s second act is spent learning-to-lead. She wants to be a good queen but that is easier said than done, and sometimes she has no choice but to compromise on her ideals. 8. The Ordeal. In Meereen, she reaches the ordeal, which involves facing up to her greatest fear. For Dany that means ruling as a queen. This stage is sometimes called the dragon’s lair, which may be a more appropriate label given that Drogon made his lair atop the Great Pyramid. This is a clear nod to the hero’s journey in my opinion. The hero’s ordeal centres on the character’s inner-conflict. As the Queen of Meereen, Dany tried to bring peace to the city using diplomacy, even giving her hand in marriage to Hizdahr zo Loraq despite having no love for him. She wants to be a good queen, a breaker of chains, but her efforts are constantly undermined. It soon becomes clear that her noble dream of an end to slavery will never be allowed to flourish as long as the old establishment, the Harpies and the slavers and the Old Blood of Volantis, stand in the way. Instead of breaking chains, Dany becomes entangled in the knot that is Meereen. The only way to extract herself now is to cleave the knot with her sword, which is Drogon. At the end of the last book, we left Dany and Drogon in the Dothraki Sea, where the process of waking the dragon had clearly begun. When waking the dragon brings victory over Dany’s enemies by way of fire and blood, it will only enforce her belief that she solved her ordeal the right way, and this belief will shape her choices going forward. This second plot-point, her second fire, marks the end of her second act and her initiation. 9. Seizing the Sword. Waking the dragon will bring victory in Meereen, so Dany will apply this method to her larger goals. This is known as seizing the sword. She is the blood of the dragon and Drogon is her sword. Dany will emerge from the ashes of Old Volantis with a fresh commitment to her goal of winning the Iron Throne and a clear vision of how to achieve it with fire and blood, which is what brought her victory against the slavers. The priests of the Red Temple already see Dany as Azor Ahai reborn, come to make the world anew. When she ends the old order with victory in Meereen and the destruction of the black-walled heart of Old Volantis, her anointment as the chosen one of R’hllor will be confirmed in the eyes of the Red Temple. Dany departed wed to Drogo, but she will return wed to fire. 10. The Road Back. After that she will begin the road back, which will lead her to her goal, the Iron Throne, thanks to her dragons and her military strength. She will defeat the false kings, like Stannis and Aegon, and win the game of thrones. 11. Resurrection. With the Long Night upon the world, Dany will face the final test of her arc, known as the resurrection. This is the point where the dragon queen must die so that the true queen Dany wanted to be until she lost her way can be resurrected. 12. Return with the Elixir. If she passes the test and is resurrected then she will return with the elixir, the final stage of the hero’s journey, where the hero will have attained the knowledge and ability to bestow a great boon on mankind. That boon will be the self-sacrifice that ignites Lightbinger and the dawn to make the world anew. If you're referring to the Wizard of Oz, then that's a classic hero's journey too. I agree. They're all important elements of Dany's arc. I think we can have a good stab at most of the visions and what or who they refer to. This reply is long already, I'll come back to discussing some of the stuff you listed because there's a lot there. The story structure is already in place even though the story is not finished. It's no different than knowing the rest of the story will be written in third-limited with first-person in italics. Those choices are made at the start of the process. Treason is a crime against the queen, in this context at least. A whole alliance of the old slaver order are descending on Meereen to get rid of Dany and her anti-slavery ideas that would undermine their wealth. That's why it is a treason for gold, because it is to restore the flow of gold from the slave trade. The slave trade extends far and wide across Essos but it's black heart is the black-walled heart of Old Volantis. The tigers and elephants have untied against Dany. Nyessos the elephant and Malaquo the tiger go hand in hand, elephants show stripes. Nyessos owes much of his wealth to the slave trade. Malaquo wanted to hire the Golden Company to clear out the red temple, where Benerro is proclaiming Dany to be a savior figure who is coming to tear down the old order. From Volantis to Old Ghis that old order has turned on the queen and are sending legions to crush her. I think that qualifies as treason.
  11. This is an analysis the three mounts Dany must ride, the three treasons she will know, and the three fires she must light, and how they relate to the three acts of her story. Dany’s character-arc is structured in the hero’s journey format. GRRM expresses his own creative flair by writing some of the typical steps of the journey in atypical ways, but other than that he has yet to stray too far from the underlying format. The hero’s journey, with its three main stages – the Departure, the Initiation, and the Return - is a three-act story. Each of the three acts closes with a major plot-point - the first plot-point in act one, the midpoint in act two, and the final plot-point in act three - which is an event or character decision that alters the course of the plot. In the House of the Undying, we are given cryptic clues to Dany’s three major plot-points, as each one is marked by a fire. Before we get into the first mount, treason, and fire, we need to step back and look at Dany’s journey from the start. Her first act begins with the initiating incident, which gets her journey underway. This is Dany’s wedding to Drogo, at which stage she is no more than a pawn in the game of thrones, being traded for an army so that Viserys can regain what the Targaryens had lost to the Usurper. It marks the beginning of the stage of the hero’s journey known as the Departure. Dany leaves the life she had known in the Free Cities behind and goes east into the Dothraki Sea. As we move through the first act, we come to the first pinch-point at roughly the halfway stage. This is a stepping-stone towards the first plot-point, and occurs when Viserys is crowned in molten gold. With Viserys dead, the quest to regain the Iron Throne and the Seven Kingdoms now lies with Dany. She is the Dragon, not Viserys, and while this is a change, Dany is still little more than a pawn, as Viserys was before her. After all, Drogo commands the khalasar and they are still following the agenda set by Illyrio, except Viserys is no longer with them. His absence allows Dany to grow somewhat but she has yet to gain full agency as a character. That fire cannot kill a dragon is an important thought or hers at this time because it relates to the plot-point we are moving towards. Her first plot-point, as marked by her first fire. The first mount was Dany’s mare, Silver, who she rode to her wedding bed. The first treason for blood was then committed by Mirri Maz Duur, who took Drogo, blood of her blood, and Rhaego, her blood, from her to avenge the blood Drogo had spilled and prevent similar bloodshed under Rhaego. The first mount and first treason represent significant links in the chain of events that eventually led Dany to light her first fire. The fire for life was Drogo’s funeral pyre. Only death can pay for life, and that’s where Dany’s dragons were born. Dany walked into the fire and emerged again unburnt, and when she did, she took her first steps as a queen. Drogo was gone and his khalasar had abandoned her. The weak who had been left behind became her people, her own tiny khalasar, who she decided to lead into the Red Waste, guided by the comet and a sense that she had her own destiny to find. She was the Mother of Dragons now, and had gone from pawn to player, albeit a novice one. This brings the first act of her story to a close. Dany has gained agency and dragons, but quickly learns that agency brings responsibilities and challenges, as will the dragons once they grow. If she wants to be a player then she needs to learn how to play the game. This leads us into the second act and the second stage of her hero’s journey, the Initiation. In her second act, Dany must learn to lead. She needs to know who she can trust. Who are her allies and who are her enemies? She also needs to start gathering the resources she needs to achieve her goal, winning back the Iron Throne. And she needs to learn how to deal with the conflicts that come with ruling, none more so than her own inner-conflict. Can she be a queen who is loved or will she have to rule by fear? As we move through the second act we come to the second pinch-point. This takes place at the House of the Undying, where Dany is in danger of being trapped by the warlocks but burns her way free using Drogon. In Meereen, Dany once again finds herself trapped, this time by the slavers who are opposed to her attempts to end slavery. Dany wants to move on towards her goal, but she knows that if she does then the slavers will return to power, just as they had in Yunkai. Just like the House of the Undying, Dany will use Drogon to free herself from her bind and the dragon will once again tear at a terrible dark heart. This is Dany’s second plot-point, when she decides the solution to the conflict is to wake the dragon, something she had tried to resist when she locked up two of her dragons. The second mount Dany must ride for dread is Drogon, who resembles Balerion the Black Dread. When the silver queen mounted Drogon in the fighting-pits of Meereen, the process of waking the dragon began. When the dragon in her awakens, Dany will use dragonfire to exert her will over her enemies and greatly increase her power. The second treason for gold was committed by the slaver establishment, who made war on her to restore the gold that flows from the slave trade. In Meereen this is the Harpies, but the slaver establishment reaches far beyond Meereen. Meereen is part of the establishment but it is not it's heart. The second fire she must light for death is the black-walled heart of Old Volantis. This represents the heart of the slave trade and once Drogon burns it down, her enemies will all know the cost of defying the dragon queen. Dany will replace the slavers at the apex of power in Essos, as foreshadowed by Drogon making his lair atop the Great Pyramid of Meereen. This means the blood of the dragon, which is the blood of Old Valyria, will replace the Old Blood of Volantis, who trace their roots back to Valyria. It’s essentially a like for like swap. Dany might free slaves, but at the same time she will shackle them to her instead as none would dare defy the dragon queen through fear. And so ends of the second act of Dany’s story. (I feel this would have taken place at the end of A Dance with Dragons had the novel not grown too large.) Dany emerged from the first fire as the Mother of Dragons and began her second act taking her first tentative steps as a queen. At the time she was mounted on her mare, Silver, and became known as the silver queen. The second act was her Initiation as a queen, where she faced the trials and tribulations of ruling. By the end of the act, Dany will have woken the dragon and turned the agency she had gained at the end of her first act into power. She will emerge from the second fire mounted on a dragon for dread, to rule by fear, and will have gone from silver queen to dragon queen. This leads us to the third and final act of Dany’s story, the Return. Victory in Essos will finally allow Dany to turn for home and focus on her goal, the Iron Throne. We’re well past the point of the novels now and going further into speculation, but there are still some things we can be certain of. We know the third act contains Dany’s final plot-point, which will be the final turn in her character-arc. This is the point where she must resolve her inner-conflict, for better or for worse, which in turn will determine her part in the resolution of the main plot. Dany will begin the third act as a dragon queen, who has woken the dragon and rules through fear and dread, but if her final mount, treason and fire are all for love, then we know the direction she must turn. The choice between being a queen who is loved or feared reflects Dany’s inner-conflict, which she can resolve by choosing love at her final plot-point, and acting on that choice by lighting her third and final fire, the fire she must light for love. As in the previous acts, there will be a pinch-point that functions as a stepping stone toward the final plot-point, a step towards choosing to be a queen that is loved over a queen that is feared. Dany losing one or more of her dragons in an attempt to save the realm would be my guess, as it reflects elements of the decision and final turn she is headed towards because she would be sacrificing her own power, symbolized by the dragons, in an attempt to defend her people. I think the people of Westeros will be Dany’s people by the time she reaches her final plot-point. She has the dragons to defeat rivals like Stannis and Aegon and win the game of thrones. I believe her third mount will be the Iron Throne, which is her goal. Maester Aemon speaks of her great-grandfather, Egg, in terms of mounting the throne. This brings us to her third treason and third fire and her third and final plot-point, as well as the legend of Azor Ahai. Benerro is half wrong and half right. Dany is not Azor Ahai returned, but she is Nissa Nissa returned. However, Nissa Nissa is the true hero of the legend, something that red priests like Benerro and Mel clearly fail to realize. It was Nissa Nissa who bared her breast willingly and gave herself to save the realm, and her self-sacrifice was the true sacrifice needed to ignite Lightbringer and subsequently bring the dawn. It is Dany’s triumph over her inner darkness, the dragon queen side of her nature, that will end the Lond Night and bring the dawn and make the world anew. As Quaithe once told her, “…to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.” The third fire Dany must light is Lightbringer, to bring the dawn and save the realm. And if Dany chooses to give her life to save the realm, then it stands to reason that the final treason she must know will be committed by herself, when the true queen triumphs over the dark side of her nature and kills the dragon queen by giving her life to light the fire needed to save her people. We know the rules of the game. When you play the game of thrones you win or you die, there is no middle ground. Dany has the dragons to win the game, but if the only way to save the realm is for her to sacrifice herself to bring the dawn, then she must choose die so that her people win instead. That’s what a queen who belongs not to herself but to her people would do in such a dilemma. And finally, we can connect the turns in Dany’s journey to another motif that is present in her arc, which is the concept of the Targaryen coin toss. A tossed coin turns in the air, just as Dany’s journey has taken it’s turns. By the end of her second act, Dany is dancing too close to madness, as is the want of Targaryens, but the coin has not landed yet. There is still one more turn to come. When she lights her third fire to save the realm the coin will land on greatness, and Dany will have turned the power she gained at the end of the second act into love, because a great queen who sacrifices herself to save her people will always be remembered by her people with love. Thanks for reading.
  12. There is no particular ending I want to see happen. What I want has nothing to do with trying to interpret someone else's story. I'm happy to leave the story to GRRM and just hope we do get an ending.
  13. I would say the mental gymnastics is on your part, making Dany someone inserted by Doran and pushing a theory that Quaithe has something to do with an Asshai plot that isn't going to happen. Who cares about the show? The show writers got practically every character arc wrong. That's why it fell apart as a story. Nobody should have to kill Dany in the end, because the point of the Lightbringer prophecy is that a true sacrifice is required to bring the dawn, and the only true sacrifice is self-sacrifice. Dany is the one who must learn to understand that weapons of mass destruction and power built by those means, ruling through fear, is a problem. So if you're looking for a compelling argument for having to kill Dany, you are missing the point.
  14. To say Quaithe is trying to get Dany to go to Asshai isn't really an honest reading of the passage. Dany asks what is in Asshai that she will not find in Qarth. Quaithe says the truth, which is what she is trying to guide Dany to. No doubt the truth about dragons is in Asshai, but Quaithe never asks Dany to go there. If we're being honest in our reading then we have to accept there are two different interpretations to Quaithe's answer. You say it confirms that Dany needs to go to Asshai, but I say Quaithe is confirming that she will find no truth in Qarth. This is the context in which the conversation takes place, and we see this if we go back a few sentences. Quaithe warns Dany to leave Qarth soon or she will not be permitted to leave at all. And then finishes the exchange by telling Dany why, because she will find no truth there. Dany is the one who brings Asshai into it, because she thinks Quaithe is referring to Asshai when she says pass beneath the shadow, but I believe that assumption is wrong. Quaithe does not want Dany to go to Asshai, she wants her to find the truth, and she will not find that in Qarth. Dany is the danger posed by fire. The dragons giver her the power to win the throne but also the power to turn the realm to ash and charred meat. That's the point of her story. She will embrace the power first, by waking the dragon, but ultimately she must choose between holding on to that power for her own gain or sacrificing it to save the realm.
  15. Again, we have a different interpretation of this. Dany asks where Quaithe would have her go. Quaithe did not say Asshai, she answered with a riddle. To go north she must journey south, etc. A set of directions that require her to go against her natural instincts, just as journeying south would be against the natural instincts of anyone who wanted to go north. Quaithe also says that if Dany is to touch the light then she must pass beneath the shadow. Dany assumes she must be talking about Asshai, for obvious reasons, but I think Dany is jumping to the wrong conclusion. To touch the light she must pass beneath the shadow. The light is the truth, which is what Quaithe wants Dany to find, something she will not find in Qarth. But to find the truth and understand it she must pass through the lie, so to speak. In terms of what I have been saying about Dany's arc, her plot points, and the turning Targaryen coin, Dany must wake the dragon and seize power before she can sacrifice that power to save the realm and become a true queen. Only then will she touch the light or the truth or the dawn. This way Quaithe is connected to the main climax of the story rather than a plotline involving the shadow-binders of Asshai. I agree she knows about Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa and Lightbringer. The difference between Quaithe and Mel, in my opinion, is that Quaithe understands the prophecy better than Mel does. Quaithe understands that the key point is that Nissa Nissa gave herself willingly. And because I'm saying Dany must be a dragon, then I feel the same thing must apply to Nissa Nissa. My guess is that she was a dragon too. Another difference is their approach to Stannis and Dany. Mel told Stannis he is Azor Ahai and then placed a glamoured sword in his hand, and it's becoming a sort of self-fulling prophecy on Mel's behalf. Stannis wasn't exactly convinced either. On the other hand, Quaithe is trying to lead Dany to come to the truth herself and therefore be convinced of it.
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