hallam

1 minute ago, House Cambodia said:

Bran might want to plant a weirwood sapling in the Kings Landing garden. He shouldn't be away from his tree.

Bran can make his capital anywhere in the Six kingdoms. They all have godswoods except for Dragonstone.

1 minute ago, robasp2 said:

Like you, many will now skip GRRMs books because of the show.

Didn't he realize that? Couldn't he have overseen the scripts?

The ending is entirely consistent with the books. It was always very clear that Jon was likely to Nyssa-Nyssa Danny. Which meant that he would probably not be the one to kill the NK. It is also clear that Jamie is going to strangle Danny to fulfill the Valonquar prophecy which means that they probably die when the red keep is on fire and he is saving her from the flames.Which in turn means that it really has to be Arya who kills the NK because that is the only payoff available for all that ninja training and the mad queen plot doesn't work as well if Jon killed the NK as well as being the legitimate heir.

The reason to read the books was never to find out the end. What is much more interesting is the beginning. We have not seen a third of the true backstory to Roberts rebellion for a start. Why did Aerys go mad? Why did Jamie sit on the Iron throne after killing him? What was the prophecy that drove Rheagar?

2 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Not Darkstar?

Possible. But I rather get the feeling that Fake Aegon is a bit more important than just a shaggy dog story in the books. 

45 minutes ago, briantw said:

Couldn't Bran just pardon Jon now that the Unsullied fucked off to Naath?  

They might unfuck back again. And it makes no difference because Jon gives up his birthright as king when he joins the NW. Bran knows full well that he has in fact made Jon King beyond the wall.

42 minutes ago, Pandean said:

My sis and I are freaking out that Ghost finally got some love and my mother is like "Why are you freaking about the dog"

 

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.

I thought the previous goodbye strongly suggested that it would not be the last.

40 minutes ago, Nami said:

All Starks got a pretty ending. How sweet.

All the Starks got an opportunity for a spin off you mean.

39 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Nissa nissa, not the Night's Queen.

Yup. I have been predicting that for a while. The tell was 'why we don't know'.

34 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

He could be escorting the Wildlings to their new homeland (?The Gift).  

The gift is south of the wall and they are going north.

31 minutes ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

That line by Tyrion about "asking him in 10 years" tells me they're leaving the door open for more seasons.

Well there is the whole doom of valyria to sort out...

29 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Why didn’t Greyworm just kill Jon after he killed Dany? I mean why did he keep him prisoner? What was he waiting for? The Lords and Ladies of Westeros to show up?  

Greyworm can't do anything without orders.

27 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Isn't Sam still in the freaking Night's Watch?

There is no nights watch left. Jon is the only member. 

27 minutes ago, Anthony Pirtle said:

Also, I think it's hilarious that "the new prince of Dorne" still never got a name.

That is because it would be a spoiler for the book. Try Aegon Sand. Brandon Stark's son. A Dayne/Stark, not a Targarean at all.

9 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

I always knew Arya would become Christopher Colombus.

Christine Spinoff Show.

This was the one ending I was certain of. HBO would insist no matter what GRRM wanted.

12 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Technically they have. Which explains why Uranus and Neptune are part of the thing now.

But you can say that about any personality test. The Myers-Briggs 16 personalities are astrology for people who graduated from college with business degrees.

Myers-Briggs is no more grounded in science than the decisions made by the sorting hat. I did a different one when I was with DEC.

Fact is that you can learn many of the traits. They are not innate, they are learned. The Chairman role is very much a learned skill which is what Sandringham and West Point are for.

There is some value to knowing categories because it is useful when assembling teams. I am not a completer-finisher unless I need to be. But I can assign people who are.

The idea of the tests is that teams are supposed to work best with a balance of the skill types. But it doesn't work like that in real life because the plant group really enjoy working with each other and most will kick down to their secondary skills as needed. 

4 minutes ago, ValarMorghulis1990 said:

I'd say 'boring' was certainly one thing that this episode wasn't.

The way that bullying works is that a person can raise their social status within certain social groups by being unpleasant or cruel to others.

What I see a lot of in this group is people who want to raise their status by telling us what morons they think D&D are for producing the most successful television series in history. Insulting D&D and their supporters is their attempt to raise their social status by gaslighting everyone else into supporting their conclusion.

It happens quite a lot in social media generally of course.

This is a story about a boy and a girl, an army of zombies and three fire breathing dragons. Who on earth ever expected Checkoff or Shakespere? Come to that, Shakespere isn't exactly known for unimpeachable plot consistency or character motivations either.

If you didn't spot the signs that Danny might turn out like Vicerion, you haven't been paying attention. just like people weren't paying attention when Shireen burned despite GRRM telling us it would happen in the very first chapter Shireen appears in.

It is pretty obvious that there is a Night King in the books and that Arya kills him. Take careful note of the precise wording used in the reveal, 'we have known that Arya is going to be the one...'. Not 'we decided'. They didn't say GRRM told them but that means no more than they are not going to tread on the books if they don't need to.

People could really do everyone a favor by not trying to make themselves look bigger by running down what is at the end of the day an entertainment. 

Astrology isn't even pseudo-science. Its pseudo-mysticism at best. The star charts they use haven't been updated for centuries.

12 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

She was angry that the bells of surrender meant that she wouldn't get to vent her wrath on the city. So she ignored them.

No, the city will never accept her as monarch, and neither will the nobility. She's basically let her temper and poor thinking destroy what she most wanted.

That's what her whole plot arc as been been throughout the whole series. It's what George is trying to show about power and so many other things.

Her quest for the Iron Throne is over now.

Danny could have let the civilians leave the city and take the golden company prisoner. She might need some more soldiers and they are sellswords after all.

She didn't want the surrender, she wanted to burn the city. And as a result she is going to find the city impossible to govern.

12 hours ago, Areisius said:

Great episode as over half the people I wanted dead died and Dany *$%^ them up! I'm happy!

Only half? Is there anyone left alive at this point? Apart from Danny, there really isn't any villain left.

Jon doesn't want the throne but is it now clear that he can't let Danny keep it. So Danny is going to die at either Jon's hand or Arya's.

Of course the problem with Jon killing Danny is that he was only sent back by the Red God for a purpose and his time will be up once that purpose is complete. So Jon will die as soon as Danny is dead.

23 minutes ago, The One Who Kneels said:

Dany wasn't anywhere near Westeros at the time? Cersei's issues with the Faith were well known? Cersei seized the throne? Hot Pie in the Riverlands somewhere is well informed that Cersei blew up the Sept. Of course the people of King's Landing know who did it. 

I had a friend, now an acquaintance at Oxford who studied classics. He has no experience of studying science whatsoever, never showed the slightest interest in it. I was working on a doctorate in physics, he never once asked about my work.

These days he has a job for one of the numerous Koch funded propaganda factories that present themselves as academic institutions publishing non partisan policy studies. He specializes in telling lies about climate change. When you see a graph that has been cleverly edited to show the exact opposite of the truth, that is probably his work.

It is not difficult to show he is lying. Just follow the citations in any of his papers and you will quickly discover he is a liar. But people believe him because they want to and facts won't convince them otherwise. And very few people have the moral conscience to say to people like him that they see no reason to call people who lie for a living friends or treat them with anything other than contempt.

And of course, you do realize that GoT is all about climate change from start to finish. The WWs are an allegory of the real threat that we face..

15 minutes ago, The One Who Kneels said:

Dany wasn't anywhere near Westeros at the time? Cersei's issues with the Faith were well known? Cersei seized the throne? Hot Pie in the Riverlands somewhere is well informed that Cersei blew up the Sept. Of course the people of King's Landing know who did it. 

Hot Pie is outside Cersei's sphere of influence for a start.

Take a look at how people refused to believe that the 'little green men' who invaded Crimea were Russian soldiers despite the obvious fact that they were. Some people continued to deny the obvious right up to the point where Putin admitted he had been lying.

People can be very stupid and they can spread what they know are lies for the sheer fun of feeling they are on the dictator's side. 

There will be enough people going round gaslighting the population of KL with memes saying 'Cersei! Cersei! Cersei!' that are supposed to dismiss people telling the truth about who blew up the sept as cranks.

1 minute ago, The One Who Kneels said:

Which frankly just compounds the stupid because realistically the people of King's Landing (and most every lord in Westeros for that matter) should've been rioting against Cersei from the moment she blew up the Sept and usurped the throne. They didn't because the writers didn't want them to. 

Why would they believe Cersei did it? All Cersei needs is to tell them that Danny blew up the sept and many would believe them. That is exactly how propaganda works in the real world. 

10 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Someone must have went on a long bathroom break during the Jaime/Tyrion scene.

Of course Tyrion is telling Jamie to save their sister. But that isn't why he is letting Jamie go. That is the reason he is giving for Jamie to tell Cersei to give up.

Tyrion is guilty because he has caused the death of Varys and he is completing what Varys set out to do.

20 minutes ago, robasp2 said:

An unburnt horse at the right place at the right time.

Talk about a convenient plot device. Lol

5 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

The equus ex machina was actually an equus ex greenseer courtesy of her brother Bran who was looking out for her.

That's why it was so very like fairytale magic. It really was exactly what it seemed: magic.

The horse only arrives after Arya is safe and has no need of it to escape. And it is pretty clearly sent with a purpose which is probably Bran's doing.

7 minutes ago, TNTW said:

The brilliant Tyrion sent his beloved brother to his death, to try to save his sister who has caused him nothing but misery. That part was ugh. But when Tyrion talked about ringing the bells, saving the people, even if it cost him his life, that was better.

Tyrion isn't trying to save his siter, he is trying to save the city. Big difference.

7 minutes ago, robasp2 said:

Even I was not convinced by Sandor's speech.

Wonder how Arya suddenly had a change of plans.

Again, Arya and the Hound go off to kill Cersei so that there is no need for the battle. She says exactly that to the troops.

At the point Arya changes her mind, Cersei is clearly defeated and as good as dead. Someone is going to kill her. It doesn't have to be her. She doesn't have to die.

The reason she agrees not to go on is that the Hound begs her not to. He knows he is going to his death but he desperately doesn't want Arya to die with him or for that matter for her to save him.

1 hour ago, Raksha 2014 said:

Daenerys will count Tyrion's releasing Jaime as treason.

Maybe but she has to catch him. And she may not even know Jamie is released. 

1 hour ago, Lady Lovisa said:

Does this mean that both brothers will die? Jaime by fire, Tyrion by execution.

I think Tyrion has other plans.

1 hour ago, Raksha 2014 said:

Why the heck didn't Dany toast the Iron Fleet like this last time - might have saved Rhaegal?

Because they were caught offguard. The scorpions were deadly as a surprise. Not deadly when their locations are known in advance.

1 hour ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

She's deliberately burning the townspeople after the surrender bells.

Jon sees it all for what it is.

Exactly. Jon is going to turn...

1 hour ago, The Bear said:

Arya survived worse than what Jaime got. I kind of wish Jaime would kill Eurion in the books.

Show Euron is clearly a composite of multiple book characters. 

16 minutes ago, greel said:

I guess all the good scorpion sharp shooters that hit the dragon last week stayed home for this battle...  Were they even used from the wall or just decoration?

The scorpions only worked as a surprise weapon and Drogon was bigger than the other two in any case. It was only the first shot that was deadly.

2 minutes ago, Old Rusty Coin said:

Gendry is a nice guy, but clueless. Arya is a contract assassin gone rogue.  Such a nice couple.... Reminds me of La Femme Nikita.  It's pretty ambiguous as to whether or not the contract actually expired when she left Braavos. She has a lot of deaths to pay for the lives she's taken for her own purposes.  All men must serve.

Oh you think the faceless men might return and off Arya?

Could happen I guess. If it does, episode 5. 

8 minutes ago, Cron said:

I'm still confidently predicting Arya and Gendry wiil end up together.

She just has to do one final mission, then she'll return to him, I predict (or he'll follow after her, I guess)

If Sansa and Tyrion end up on the Iron Throne, Arya will have to be the Stark in Winterfell. 

So I get the feeling that a Sansa/Tyrion happy ending might well happen. Question is whether it will be in Winterfell or Kings Landing. Case in point here is that this is the first time Tyrion talks about sex in a very long time. 

Tyrion is showing the principal weakness of all very intelligent people: He expects others to act rationally and intelligently. Tyrion doesn't trust Danny because he thinks she has changed, he trusts her because he believes it is in her best interests.

The future doesn't exactly look rosy for Danny or Jon. One thing I don't think she has really thought through is that if Drogon is gone, so is her power.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the Jon/Danny battle ain't the way to take Cersei out. But the Arya/Hound plot looks too damn obvious at this point.

Looks to me like it is Jamie going to take Cersei out and end up killed in the process.

7 hours ago, A_S said:

Didn't find a discussion about this, but I didn't get what the zombies were doing in the library with Arya? Were they some dead librarians come to life or what the hell? Every other zombie was going around killing people and they were just there walking around and putting books on shelves?

They are zombies. They attack any living on sight but just wander around when they are not seeing anyone.

It makes perfect sense to have the zombies patrol the library to keep out any fighters trying to reinforce Theon.

17 hours ago, Nihiloth90 said:

Except it wasn't even a real fight. She sneaks up behind him and stabs him with a weapon that causes his body to shatter.

Yeah, like someone sneaking up behind the Sword of the Morning and stabbing him in the back.

This part was foreshadowed as well and so was the blade switching.

The only reason that I hadn't been thinking of Arya killing the Night King was that I had bought into the Arya kills Cersei plot that has been dangled so long. A few seasons ago, I was thinking Jon was being built up so hard it had to be someone else and Arya was the most likely candidate.

2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

I think even the show over-simplified what happened with Craster's sons back in s2.

It looks like it has a kernel of the book though. I think the return of the other is precipitated in some way by Craster's actions and the NW knowing about them but failing to protect the boys out of expediency.

Just now, makchamp said:

Yeah it's pretty clear the show writers aren't well versed in medieval warfare lol.

Name one medieval battle against a zombie army at night

5 minutes ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

So essentially the Lord brought Jon Snow back from the dead just to take Winterfell back from the Boltons. Which he didn't even take back on his own Baelish and Sansa took it back.

Good point!!!

But it was really Mel did it. And she thought Stannis was the Prince of Light earlier. She only realizes it was Arya when Beric dies.

2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

There is no NK in the books. Book-NK was the LC of the Night's Watch who sacrificed babies to the Others like Craster and he crowned himself, and got taken down for it. He's long dead and not an active character in the books anymore. Just a historical figure.

There is no NK yet. All we have is rumours. We haven't found out very much about the zombies yet.

We also have the unreliable narrator part coming in as Sam discovers the histories are frauds, the passage of time dosen't match the number of LCs etc.

I think it is clear we are getting foreshadowing that there will be a leader in the books. Whether it is the NK or whatever... not really clear yet.

The books may have more than one NK. The one taken out by AA and a later one. Who knows. Well maybe we find out after GRRM announces he finished WoW two years ago and has been working on ADOS. OK, that isn't likely but he couldn't really publish after the show went ahead of the books.

1 minute ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

A major departure? Why not say several major departures?

Plural.

A major departure in the manner in which the NK is killed in particular.

I also still think R+L=J isn't the same in the books by a loooong way.