Han Snow Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Nice read you game me here OP. Cool theory. We'll have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticker Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 "the valonqar" -- I have believed all along that Cersei has largely misinterpreted the prophecy in regards to his identity - who says it has to be a Lannister though? Aegon (FAegon) is a younger brother is he not? My personal pick would be Rickon in some way choking her out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SansaSeastar Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Great post! I especially like the parallels you mentioned in regard of Cersei and the mad king!I always wondered what it meant that Dany saw a burned down Kings Landing but this would explain it.Someone also mentioned that Tyrion wouldn't hold back in telling Dany about her father, I really hope that scene will be in the book!I was already looking forward to those two meeting but now I cant wait :leer: Wish WOW was already released, really looking forward to reading it. It's been a long, long time since I wanted to read a book this badly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overlord of Skagos Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I feel burning of KL alone will not give Jaime enough motive to kill Cersei by his own hands,strangling her.He will probably feel that Cersei's madness needs to end and kill her with a sword,aquick death. But,if Tommen was killed by Cersei....I imagine a scene where,Jaime enters Cersei's chambers only to find Tommen has just been poisoned and dies just as he comes to hug his 'uncle' ,right in Jaime's hands...now there he'd probably strangle her,but with GRRM's style we may discover that she had already poisoned herself as well.(Similar to how Tywin was already poisoned by Obeyrn..I believe in that theory). Jaime might probably die in a valiant effort to protect Tyrion somehow...and personally, without any text or theory to back it up, I've always had this idea that Tyrion's death will be dark and messy ...almost comical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Rusty Coin Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Why does the little brother have to be related to Cersei? What about little brother Rickon? Until now, powerless and angry. Oh so angry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Rusty Coin Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 For that matter, what about little brother Theon? Granted, he seems to be short a few digits for strangling, and it's hard to figure a working plot that gets him off that wall and into the same room as Cersei while in the mood for murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tini Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Why does the little brother have to be related to Cersei? What about little brother Rickon? Until now, powerless and angry. Oh so angry... And about 5 years old. He has some serious growing up to do before he strangles anyone. Even Bran seems more likely. No, the little brother does not have to be related to Cersei, but I think he'll be someone close to Cersei - and someone Cersei will never suspect. Jaime and Tommen would be good candidates. Jaime is above suspicion, and she despises Tommen for being weak and controllable. The valonqar doesn't even have to be the youngest sibling. Loras Tyrell would work - he is older than Margaery but still her youngest brother. He seems likely to return to the royal palace. And if the valonqar can be female, both Arya and Margaery are possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Why does the little brother have to be related to Cersei? Because the whole tale is Cersei-centric. "Somebody who has or had an elder sibling" couldn't possibly be "the valonqar". Not to mention that describes more than half of the humankind, which would make Maggy's prophecy's informative value on par with white noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoctor Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Why does the little brother have to be related to Cersei? What about little brother Rickon? Until now, powerless and angry. Oh so angry... I think it's really too far of a stretch thematically for it to be Rickon. What would be the emotional impact of her getting killed by him? For her to be strangled by someone she has loved, cherished, and tried to protect, it would be the ultimate emotional bitch slap. Think of Littlefinger's "Only Cat" line. That was so impactful because Lysa was murdered by the only person she has ever loved, and he spurned her as he did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tini Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Because the whole tale is Cersei-centric. "Somebody who has or had an elder sibling" couldn't possibly be "the valonqar". Not to mention that describes more than half of the humankind, which would make Maggy's prophecy's informative value on par with white noise. "The valonqar" in the terms of this prophesy is clearly defined: it is the person who will strangle Cersei. For me, the fact that the tale is Cersei-centric only means that the valonqar will have strong ties to Cersei - blood ties, or emotional ties. Most of humankind is not bound to Cersei by such ties. Cersei's death as described by the prophesy seems to be emotionally charged. People tied to Cersei by blood and strong emotions are Tyrion, Jaime, Tommen, Myrcella, and Lancel. Myrcella is the only one that Cersei so far didn't provide with reasons for hating her. In case of strong emotional ties only, I expect that the Valonqar will be the younger sibling of someone Cersei has severely wronged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambi76 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I expect that the Valonqar will be the younger sibling of someone Cersei has severely wronged. :agree: Does Melara have a younger brother? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkaggCannibal Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 What a wonderful theory! Especially concerning Cersei burning King's Landing, that would be a freaking enormous revenge for what they did to her, typically Cersei-style. Kevan says she can't rule now everyone has seen her shame? She burns everyone who saw it. That would be epic. I think it will only happen after Tommen dies though, maybe poisoned by a Sand Snake to ease the path of Aegon. Then Cersei burns KL before Aegon arrives, leaving nothing to conquer, and flees with Myrcella to Casterly Rock. That would still give her a claim to the throne. I've read a very interesting theory about a possible Euron-Cersei alliance with Myrcella as their claimant. Don't know if it can tie into this, but I liked that one too. I've no idea how it's gonna go, but your theory is pretty strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 "The valonqar" in the terms of this prophesy is clearly defined: it is the person who will strangle Cersei. For me, the fact that the tale is Cersei-centric only means that the valonqar will have strong ties to Cersei - blood ties, or emotional ties. Most of humankind is not bound to Cersei by such ties. They will if they personally strangle her, obviously. And the list of people with legitimate grudge against Cersei is by now longer than Ossifer Plumm's dick (if not Tormund's), and most of them have or had older siblings (because most people do, as a general rule). What irks me in this interpretation is that the word "valonqar", glowing like a magnesium flare (she used a foreign language to make it stick out!), becomes pretty much meaningless. I believe the valonqar a wighted Tommen, I can accept Tyrion and Jaime (in that order), but not Gregor Clegane's younger brother, or Willas Tyrell's younger brother, or Osmund Kettleblack's younger brother... Nope, I don't believe Maggy would describe any of them to Cersei as "the valonqar". Come ADOS, you'll see I was right. (I only hope my grandchildren will be kind enough to read it to me, 'cos I expect to be old and blind by then. And I don't even have children yet.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Limbs Posted December 20, 2013 Author Share Posted December 20, 2013 Brienne doesn't have the hounds helm Lem has the hounds helm. I really like your betrayal for love theory, but I don't think Brans dream involved Brienne. The two men below the Mountain were imo Oberyn and Sandor. Everything else in that dream was a current vision, not the future. So it being Oberyn and Sandor who already held their hatred for the Mountain would make sense. I personally think that Jaime is due for a duel that will test his new training, and I think it's going to be against Lem, the current holder of the hound helm. Brienne can take it when he's dead, to hide her disfigurement. Maybe I'm just clinging to the hope that there will be an epic Jaime and Brienne team up against Robert Strong, but the pieces are there. A great post, King of Limbs!But do you think the story will finish openended, with the threat from the Others continuing to hang over Martinworld, meaning the Nightwatch will be needed infinitely? The Nightwatch is, admittedly, a good place for male characters who are supposed to have a bittersweet ending but what would it be good for in the end?Wouldn't Martin give a conclusion to the the Others' story as well? I think it would be fitting if magic left the world, the dragons perish and the Wall as the greatest human construction melts down like the glaciers in our world, not as a sign of doom like in our reality but a sign of hope. I think the Others will be dealt with by Dany and her dragons, and Dany will die in the process. She will finally make it to Westeros and die a heroic death, but never be queen. It falls under GRRM's bittersweet criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejhawman Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Not particularly appealing. I don't think the wildfire in KL will be wasted. I would like to see it used on the wights. The city will stand (if not, it will be rebuilt). I cannot see Cersei leaving KL until possibly late ADOS; likely she will die there, no prepared to speculate on how or who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratchild Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I personally think that Jaime is due for a duel that will test his new training, and I think it's going to be against Lem, the current holder of the hound helm. Brienne can take it when he's dead, to hide her disfigurement. Maybe I'm just clinging to the hope that there will be an epic Jaime and Brienne team up against Robert Strong, but the pieces are there. I think the Others will be dealt with by Dany and her dragons, and Dany will die in the process. She will finally make it to Westeros and die a heroic death, but never be queen. It falls under GRRM's bittersweet criteria. I have thought for a long time that Dany and Jon are probably going to die in some heroic,mythical battle and leave Tyrion to try to make sense of the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woman of War Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I have thought for a long time that Dany and Jon are probably going to die in some heroic,mythical battle and leave Tyrion to try to make sense of the whole thing.Though l do not look forward to Jon and Dany dying I guess your prediction makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugashep Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Agree with other posters, this is a really good theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseyoakdale Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Either Breinne or Jamie will be the 999th Lord Commander of the Night's watch after Jon dies/relinquishes command Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseyoakdale Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I agree Jamie and Breienne will both survive the Stoneheart encounter because their arcs aren't nearly finished. I like the mental image of Jaime killing Cersei and being freed by Tyrion. I could see all 3 going to the wall to fight the others (Tyrion knows how desprete they are for man power) and Jaime taking the black for killing Cersei and become the 999th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. After Jon dies/relinquishing command they would be very well off with Jamie Lannister at the helm. And what better way to finish his story than him trading his white cloak for a black one to guard the realms of men like he once guarded kings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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