House Manderly returns to the Reach

[Wmarshal]

Look was enough to convince Ned and Brienne, and his heritage will eventually be revealed. Bandits are thieves, and Gendry has to date stolen nothing with BwB, that is what you neglect to mention. Except that violates the rule of Chekov's Gun.

By who? Who wants this guy on SE that bad? No one. Google it, they are outlaws part of a gang. Where was it stated Martin follows the Chekov's Gun rule for all his little points?

No names given means my point stands on this one I think. Gendry is the only other person in Westeros not to know his royal heritage. The other is Jon, which will be of great import. Except this guy has the blood of Robert, and it he proves a good warrior, the complaints would be less so. Also, many bastards are being legitimized into lords.

Your point has no weight. Gendry has no royal heritage, he is a bastard that is promised nothing. THe other is Mya Stone. Do see her getting SE? No.He is not a great warrior, he is a smith. It took years of training by men at arms to make the greats.

Do you think the stormlords, after having fought a devastating war would start one with a monarch with dragons over this one? The stormlands have been ruled by a bastard before, so there is precedent.

Do you think the stormlords need fight a war to get this guy away from SE? What king or queen would fight that hard to put a smith on the throne? A bastard with proven skill, known by his father.

But a Baratheon bastard would no doubt be grateful to the ones who raised him up. Also, how many dragons would he have?

As would any other Stormlord with better reasoning to be put on the throne.Zero, Gendry has none.

I doubt Connington will after fighting against Dany. I also think Edric Storm is likely to be an Addam of Hull parallel.

Edric is only similar to Addam be it they are bastard. Pretty much any stormlord has aa claim and is is a better choice then a smith.

[Fire Eater]

By who? Who wants this guy on SE that bad? No one. Google it, they are outlaws part of a gang. Where was it stated Martin follows the Chekov's Gun rule for all his little points?

Your point has no weight. Gendry has no royal heritage, he is a bastard that is promised nothing. THe other is Mya Stone. Do see her getting SE? No.He is not a great warrior, he is a smith. It took years of training by men at arms to make the greats.

Few people want Jon on the IT so bad, yet it appears that is how it will work out in the end. The Chekov's Gun is a literary technique. What is the point of keeping Gendry ignorant of his noble heritage unless it is supposed to play a role?

No royal heritage? So Robert wasn't a king? I think it your statment that holds no weight in that. Mya won't get SE since boys come before girls in inheritance, and name to me one bastard daughter that ha been legitimized into a ruling lady. Gendry could likely be training with the BwB. He may be a great warrior in time later into adulthood.

Do you think the stormlords need fight a war to get this guy away from SE? What king or queen would fight that hard to put a smith on the throne? A bastard with proven skill, known by his father.

As would any other Stormlord with better reasoning to be put on the throne.Zero, Gendry has none.

Edric is only similar to Addam be it they are bastard. Pretty much any stormlord has aa claim and is is a better choice then a smith.

Well, they would be going against a royal decree. Violation of the king's decree is an act of rebellion. I think you didn't answer my question: who would fight a monarch with a large army and dragons against their choice for Lord of SE? The king or queen wouldn't need to fight to put Gendry in SE, royal authority and dragons are enough. The monarchs with dragons were the closest to absolute monarchs, and the state of Westeros, including the Stormlands, after the wars would be the best moments for such change.

Edric and Addam are also charismatic and glib of tongue, and generally decent people. How is a smith a bad choice?

[Wmarshal]

Few people want Jon on the IT so bad, yet it appears that is how it will work out in the end. The Chekov's Gun is a literary technique. What is the point of keeping Gendry ignorant of his noble heritage unless it is supposed to play a role?

No royal heritage? So Robert wasn't a king? I think it your statment that holds no weight in that. Mya won't get SE since boys come before girls in inheritance, and name to me one bastard daughter that ha been legitimized into a ruling lady. Gendry could likely be training with the BwB. He may be a great warrior in time later into adulthood.

Well, they would be going against a royal decree. Violation of the king's decree is an act of rebellion. I think you didn't answer my question: who would fight a monarch with a large army and dragons against their choice for Lord of SE? The king or queen wouldn't need to fight to put Gendry in SE, royal authority and dragons are enough. The monarchs with dragons were the closest to absolute monarchs, and the state of Westeros, including the Stormlands, after the wars would be the best moments for such change.

Edric and Addam are also charismatic and glib of tongue, and generally decent people. How is a smith a bad choice?

Unless you read the future books and know completely how Jon comes to the throne, i don't see how this arguments works at all. One Martin doesn't have to follow. So he remains the ignorant peasant boy he is, Martin has no reason to do anything with it.

He has nothing to gain, he is a bastard, no royal what so ever. bastards don't come at all, if a king wants to legitimacy a bastard, a girl legitimize comes before a unlegitimize boy. Name me smith put on a throne? He is smithing in a inn, not training at war. A decree they can easily call BS and demand a new lord, because Gendry has no business ruling anyone. Unless this lords come gun blaze it is not rebelling, that is like saying a peasant petitioning against a lord is rebellingLords still rebel or do you forget the large amoun the fought Aenys and Maegor? They rage and bricker and demand just as always, so again: What king would fight that hard to put Gendry, a man worth his hammer, on SE? Where is Gendry getting these dragons?There are dozens of options among the stormlords.

That is one incredible small comparison. He is completely wrong for the job in everyway is wrong. Gendry can't even read maps, yet he is meant to rule over lords. Why would a king give a smith a lord's job when there are lords to pick?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Few people want Jon on the IT so bad, yet it appears that is how it will work out in the end. The Chekov's Gun is a literary technique. What is the point of keeping Gendry ignorant of his noble heritage unless it is supposed to play a role?

Will Mya also become Lady of the Stormalnds, or Bella the prostitute? Or Edric for that matter?

Not everything has to be important.

The king or queen wouldn't need to fight to put Gendry in SE, royal authority and dragons are enough.

Why would Dany and her dragons reward an unacknowlged Bastard of Robert Baratheon, the man who played a huge part in the demise of her family.

She has her own people who she would want to reward, people who have supported her or will support her in the future to regain the Throne or she will have people who she feels she can trust.

Edric and Addam are also charismatic and glib of tongue, and generally decent people. How is a smith a bad choice?

Edric has the support and backing of the Florents as well as the realm, Stannis and Shireen knowing his true identity.

Addam had the support of his (Grand)father Corlys Velaryon, the Lord of Driftmark and a hugely influential person within the realm.

Gendry has no one of great consequence backing him, he doesn't bring soldiers, money or influence to whoever becomes King nor does he have the support of the Stormlords who many would have had marriage alliances to the Baratheons themselves in the past.

If its case of a Baratheon needing to become Lord of the Stormlands then it will be some 2nd or 3rd cousin rather than a peasant who looks like Renly/Robert.

[Wmarshal]

Unless you read the future books and know completely how Jon comes to the throne, i don't see how this arguments works at all. One Martin doesn't have to follow. So he remains the ignorant peasant boy he is, Martin has no reason to do anything with it.

He has nothing to gain, he is a bastard, no royal what so ever. bastards don't come at all, if a king wants to legitimacy a bastard, a girl legitimize comes before a unlegitimize boy. Name me smith put on a throne? He is smithing in a inn, not training at war. A decree they can easily call BS and demand a new lord, because Gendry has no business ruling anyone. Unless this lords come gun blaze it is not rebelling, that is like saying a peasant petitioning against a lord is rebelling. Here is a question you seem to refuse to answer: What king would fight that hard to put Gendry, a man worth his hammer, on SE? Where is Gendry getting these dragons? Men still fought dragons while they walked, rebels still fought hard and brave. And lords still raged. So i ask again: Why would any monarch give a fig about wnting to put Gendry on Se throne to cause outrage when he is in no one a good fit? There are dozens of options among the stormlords.

That is one incredible small comparison. He is completely wrong for the job in everyway is wrong. Gendry can't even read maps, yet he is meant to rule over lords. Why would a king give a smith a lord's job when there are lords to pick?

[Fire Eater]

I wonder what happened to Dunstonbury after it was taken from the Peakes. Was it given to another lord or is it still under the domain of the crown?

Unless you read the future books and know completely how Jon comes to the throne, i don't see how this arguments works at all. One Martin doesn't have to follow. So he remains the ignorant peasant boy he is, Martin has no reason to do anything with it.

What is the point of giving Jon a secret royal heritage with a mountain of king clues pointing towards him if he isn't going to be king in the end? Why have Gendry's heritage be in the dark?

He has nothing to gain, he is a bastard, no royal what so ever. bastards don't come at all, if a king wants to legitimacy a bastard, a girl legitimacy comes before a unlegitimacy boy. Name me smith put on a throne? He is smithing in a inn, not training at war. A decree they can easily call BS and demand a new lord, because Gendry has no business ruling anyone. Unless this lords come gun blaze it is not rebelling, that is like saying a peasant petitioning against a lord is rebelling. Here is a question you seem to refuse to answer: What king would fight that hard to put Gendry, a man worth his hammer, on SE? There are dozens of options among the stormlords.

Nothing to gain? SE is worthless? This isn't about a smith on the IT not SE. He is a knight, and I would expect that he is trained at arms. Easily call BS? It seems you show a poor understanding of feudal law and custom. A king's decree is law, and violating the king's commands is rebellion. Petitioning is different from what you just described.

You're one to talk given you didn't answer my question, and I think you engaged in tu quoque in that. A king can crush rebellions, and he would be more concerned about the principle behind it: his authority being challenged. Lords wouldn't want to fight against dragons and a larger army after having depleted their military strength. There is precedent for a bastard ruling SE. Also, they would be divided over who should get SE, with different lords declaring themselves to be the rightful liege lords of the stormlands. It can't be Connington since he is a dead man walking. Think Iron Isles after House Hoare went extinct.

Will Mya also become Lady of the Stormalnds, or Bella the prostitute? Or Edric for that matter?

Not everything has to be important.

Except you completely missed that all of them know who their father is while Gendry doesn't. The only other person we have seen with that problem is Jon, who doesn't know who his mother is.

Why would Dany and her dragons reward an unacknowlged Bastard of Robert Baratheon, the man who played a huge part in the demise of her family.

She has her own people who she would want to reward, people who have supported her or will support her in the future to regain the Throne or she will have people who she feels she can trust.

She needs a puppet lord of SE, and I don't think it will be her that makes Gendry Lord of SE, but Jon. Tyrion could convince Dany in the other case, reminding her that she still has dragons while Edric has none.

Except none of them have any claim to SE, and who would she give it to? BBP or one of her Unsullied?

Edric has the support and backing of the Florents as well as the realm, Stannis and Shireen knowing his true identity.

Addam had the support of his (Grand)father Corlys Velaryon, the Lord of Driftmark and a hugely influential person within the realm.

Gendry has no one of great consequence backing him, he doesn't bring soldiers, money or influence to whoever becomes King nor does he have the support of the Stormlords who many would have had marriage alliances to the Baratheons themselves in the past.

If its case of a Baratheon needing to become Lord of the Stormlands then it will be some 2nd or 3rd cousin rather than a peasant who looks like Renly/Robert.

You ignore that those same Florents tried to have him burned.

Gendry would have the king/queen in that scenario. Jon doesn;t bring much either, yet a lot of clues point to him as king in the end.

Except Gendry's look was enough for Ned and Brienne to realize who his father was the day they met him.

[Wmarshal]

I wonder what happened to Dunstonbury after it was taken from the Peakes. Was it given to another lord or is it still under the domain of the crown?

What is the point of giving Jon a secret royal heritage with a mountain of king clues pointing towards him if he isn't going to be king in the end? Why have Gendry's heritage be in the dark?

Nothing to gain? SE is worthless? This isn't about a smith on the IT not SE. He is a knight, and I would expect that he is trained at arms. Easily call BS? It seems you show a poor understanding of feudal law and custom. A king's decree is law, and violating the king's commands is rebellion. Petitioning is different from what you just described.

You're one to talk given you didn't answer my question, and I think you engaged in tu quoque in that. A king can crush rebellions, and he would be more concerned about the principle behind it: his authority being challenged. Lords wouldn't want to fight against dragons and a larger army after having depleted their military strength. There is precedent for a bastard ruling SE. Also, they would be divided over who should get SE, with different lords declaring themselves to be the rightful liege lords of the stormlands. It can't be Connington since he is a dead man walking. Think Iron Isles after House Hoare went extinct.

Except you completely missed that all of them know who their father is while Gendry doesn't. The only other person we have seen with that problem is Jon, who doesn't know who his mother is.

She needs a puppet lord of SE, and I don't think it will be her that makes Gendry Lord of SE, but Jon. Tyrion could convince Dany in the other case, reminding her that she still has dragons while Edric has none.

Except none of them have any claim to SE, and who would she give it to? BBP or one of her Unsullied?

You ignore that those same Florents tried to have him burned.

Gendry would have the king/queen in that scenario. Jon doesn;t bring much either, yet a lot of clues point to him as king in the end.

Except Gendry's look was enough for Ned and Brienne to realize who his father was the day they met him.

I never said Jon wasn't going to do anything with his, what he does in the future is no proof of anything.

He is a bastard, he gains nothing that is how it goes.

Created by a bandit, for no real reason. He isn't, he is a smith. You seem to have a frowning poor understanding lords have the right to petition to the king, and this extremely poor choice can easily gain backing, no king has reason to deny them. I described them challenging a terrible choice.

I did answer, lords have rebelled with bigger and more stone hearted dragon lords. His authority is challenged because it is a poor choice and only a idiot would commit so hard, and none of the claimants have that much of a hard on for Gendry to make that happen. A castellan who committed a coup and smashed all that challenged him. And none would agree on Gendry. In the end left to themselves they picked a lord.

No Mya doesn't.

Why? They can hand pick anyone.

Neither does Gendry.

That would be Stan camp, main Florents were besieged.

Again what Jon May and May not do is no proof.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Except you completely missed that all of them know who their father is while Gendry doesn't. The only other person we have seen with that problem is Jon, who doesn't know who his mother is.

I'm sorry, but you think because Gendry doesn't know who his father is that he will become the Lord of Storms End? That is a bizarre conclusion.

She needs a puppet lord of SE, and I don't think it will be her that makes Gendry Lord of SE, but Jon. Tyrion could convince Dany in the other case, reminding her that she still has dragons while Edric has none.

Aegon the Conqueror gave Storms End to Orys who had no claim to the Iron Throne. If she conquers with dragons then she can do anything she wants.

She has no reason to grant some peasant one of the greatest titles in the whole of Westeros. She has no reason to even meet him, why would she need to meet a Smith in the Riverlands?

Except none of them have any claim to SE, and who would she give it to? BBP or one of her Unsullied?

He doesn't have a claim.

Bastards who are acknowledged have few claims to titles a Peasant with no proof of who he is has NO CLAIM WHATSOEVER.

Gendry would have the king/queen in that scenario. Jon doesn;t bring much either, yet a lot of clues point to him as king in the end.

Why? What is in it for Dany? Or even Jon? Neither of who have even met Gendry. Just because one Bastard who didn't know his father becomes a Lord does not mean that others will. Infact it would be stupid if it did happen.

Except Gendry's look was enough for Ned and Brienne to realize who his father was the day they met him.

Gendry grew up in Kings Landing where almost everyone knew who and Robert looked like. No one cared.

[Fire Eater]

Okay I think this thread has been derailed enough.

I never said Jon wasn't going to do anything with his, what he does in the future is no proof of anything.

He is a bastard, he gains nothing that is how it goes.
Created by a bandit, for no real reason. He isn't, he is a smith. You seem to have a frowning poor understanding lords have the right to petition to the king, and this extremely poor choice can easily gain backing, no king has reason to deny them. I described them challenging a terrible choice.

It shows that if someone's heritage is hidden, it has to be of impact. Jon's hidden heritage will be of import, and likely have him crowned. The hidden parentage of Cersei's children being revealed led to the Wo5K. Aegon's hidden heritage will be the reason Dany fights against him.

Dondarrion wasn't a bandit. I never said they didn't have the right to petition the king, you are mistaken in that. How is Gendry an extremely poor choice? There is the problem of who would rule the stormlands? There would be different factions amongst the storm lords.

I did answer, lords have rebelled with bigger and more stone hearted dragon lords. His authority is challenged because it is a poor choice and only a idiot would commit so hard, and none of the claimants have that much of a hard on for Gendry to make that happen. A castellan who committed a coup and smashed all that challenged him. And none would agree on Gendry. In the end left to themselves they picked a lord.

No Mya doesn't.

Why? They can hand pick anyone.

Except those lords were at full reserves, and weren't at the end of a disastrous war. Aenys was weak while whoever took the IT clearly wouldn't be, and Maegor was brutal, and I doubt Jon would be. The lords would need a legitimate reason to remove Gendry. The castellan was alone with much of the Vale against him. Except they would have to pick a lord in the first place, and that would be a mess with the stormlords likely being divided over who would rule them.

Where is it said she doesn't? Everyone at the Eyrie knows, and likely her close friend Myranda knows, you think no one told her?

Except to make things easier they would likely pick someone with Baratheon blood.

Neither does Gendry.

That would be Stan camp, main Florents were besieged.

Again what Jon May and May not do is no proof.

Yes, he does, GRRM and in-universr shows that bastards have claims after trueborn children.

Lord Alester Florent was in Stannis's camp.

Not proof, but an argument regarding secret noble/royal heritage.

I'm sorry, but you think because Gendry doesn't know who his father is that he will become the Lord of Storms End? That is a bizarre conclusion.

Aegon the Conqueror gave Storms End to Orys who had no claim to the Iron Throne. If she conquers with dragons then she can do anything she wants.

She has no reason to grant some peasant one of the greatest titles in the whole of Westeros. She has no reason to even meet him, why would she need to meet a Smith in the Riverlands?

It is called Chekov's Gun. If Gendry has a secret noble heritage, why keep it hidden for so long unless it has a role to play? The same can be said for Jon and his heritage.

No she can't do whatever, or did you forget Meereen? GRRM makes it clear that even dragons have limits. A point further exemplified in WOIAF. Dany's journey would go through the riverlands given it is the heart of Westeros.

He doesn't have a claim.

Bastards who are acknowledged have few claims to titles a Peasant with no proof of who he is has NO CLAIM WHATSOEVER.

He does, bastards have claims after trueborn children.

Except you're ignoring that Ned and Brienne knew who his father was just by looking at him. He is the image of his father.

Why? What is in it for Dany? Or even Jon? Neither of who have even met Gendry. Just because one Bastard who didn't know his father becomes a Lord does not mean that others will. Infact it would be stupid if it did happen.

Gendry grew up in Kings Landing where almost everyone knew who and Robert looked like. No one cared.

Arya met Gendry, and Jon knows Arya. Gendry will likely come into the fore later on. Jon isn't a bastard. Also, it is the Chekov's Gun. Why does GRRM keep Gendry's parentage an open secret if it isn't going to be of import somehow? You're calling my theory stupid?

Except how many looked at both him and Robert? Few in KL saw much or knew Robert.

ETA:

How? It has yet happen, how is something that may happen to a character evidence with someone with far less importance get anything?

He was a outlaw part of a gang, he was very much a bandit. His knighthood came with no deeds done.

He is a smith who can't even read a map. And none would pick Gendry. They can still vote as GG and KG did.

Those men were peasants and warrior sons who called every once of men to fight after being smashed endlessly.

They do, he is a peasant with no real proof he is who he is. Um what castellan are you talking of? I am talking of Ronard the bastard, the only
known bastard to rule SE. Why would they not pick a lord? The iron born and GC do it no blame.

I am of the opinion that if a character's secret parentage involving royalty/nobility is kept hidden then it must have a role to play at some point.

Bandits are thieves, and unless you provide me an example of Gendry stealing something with them, then he isn't a bandit. Bandits is an unfair characterization of the BwB, rebels/outlaws would be better given they protect the smallfolk of the riverlands, an their primary goal has never been stealing.

Borros Baratheon was possibly illiterate as well. You have no evidence for the KG picking their LC. It is the king that does that. Also, the stormlords aren't the GC, they never picked their overlords.

Ronard was when the Stormlands were an independent kingdom not under the dominion of the IT who could mete out swift punishment. They have no precedent for picking lords.

Known bastards, the hundred children of Ronard were left to their own devices.

She seeing how she only seems to remember her father as a tall man and not king of the continent or seemingly no one sees her as Bobby's daughter. When did anyone in the Eyrie say she was Bobby's bastard?

That is about any stormlord specific Tarth.

Usually after their parent acknowledge them, Gaemon, Trystane, both claimed royal bastards, but had no proof.

Lord Alester was imprisoned and burned alive.

Again, when did Martin say he who would use every point to the fullest? There are a endless amount of characters. Why is Mya not using hers or Bella?

Except not in the main series. Those bastards were not even focused on.

Maddy knows, the one who told Sansa. Jon Arryn likely knew.

But bastards have been legitimized into lords when their houses risked extinction.

Yet they both weren't royal bastards while Gendry's heritage is obvious to the people who knew Robert.

His brother and niece tried to have Eric burned. Also, Florent's heir lost Brightwater Keep.

They are daughters, and no bastard daughters have been legitimized into ladies. Gendry has been gien more focus than any of Robert's children.

You have to be consistent with your arguments. You have constantly said that Gendry will become Lord of the Stormlands because he will be supported by people with Dragons who can do whatever they want. Now you are saying Dany cant do whatever she wants?

And you have still failed to give a reason why she would legitimize Gendry, a person she has never met or is likely to meet even if she is in the Riverlands. She's a Queen, a leader she is not going to be running in the same circles as a lowborn Smith.

Acknowledged bastards do. There is a huge difference.

Ned is dead. And you are forgetting that the best Ned was going to do for him when he was alive was make him a member of his entourage.

I am saying that Tyrion would argue for someone with Baratheon blood, one of Robert's bastards. I think Edric would be his first choice until he dies in battle. Besides, there is precedent for a bastard ruling SE with Orys. Gendry looks like his father, just give him an education, and some knight's training, and there should be few problems.

I doubt Gendry's hidden heritage is going to stay that way.

You're forgetting that Ned didn't plan on making Gendry Lord of SE since he supports Renly, Lord of SE, was still alive at that point.

Brienne can bring him to Tarth, but that is as far as her influence goes. She is a woman knight whom the majority of people doesn't take seriously. Having never met Robert or Gendrys mother she is no position to claim that he is Roberts son.

Donnel Hill looks like a Lannister but he is not about to be freed from his oath on the Watch and given the Westerlands, there will be many people walking around who bear a resemblance to the Baratheons. It would be anarchy if they were all legitimized.

If Gendry's look is enough to convince people of his heritage, and the same goes for Cersei's children, then it can be done. She did meet Robert, she went to SE, and Cersei saw her before, meaning Robert was likely there when Cersei was as well.

That is a false analogy, House Lannister is still intact with a large number of Lannisters, and Gendry isn't sworn to the NW. The Lannisters haven't been attainted either.

You have pointed out that Ned, Brienne and Arya know. It is not a secret it is just unimportant, unacknowledged bastards get nothing.

Legitimate children, acknowledged bastards do.

Few in Kings Landing knew what the King looked like? Oh c'mon, now you are just arguing for the sake of it.

I never said Arya kne,w she doesn't. Jon isn't acknowledged as a Targaryen, yet he likely will get the IT in the end.

People saw Robert, but only brief glances and from afar. The stormlords and friends knew Robert well enough.

[Wmarshal]

Okay I think this thread has been derailed enough.

It shows that if someone's heritage is hidden, it has to be of impact. Jon's hidden heritage will be of import, and likely have him crowned. The hidden parentage of Cersei's children being revealed led to the Wo5K. Aegon's hidden heritage will be the reason Dany fights against him.

Dondarrion wasn't a bandit. I never said they didn't have the right to petition the king, you are mistaken in that. How is Gendry an extremely poor choice? There is the problem of who would rule the stormlands? There would be different factions amongst the storm lords.

Except those lords were at full reserves, and weren't at the end of a disastrous war. Aenys was weak while whoever took the IT clearly wouldn't be, and Maegor was brutal, and I doubt Jon would be. The lords would need a legitimate reason to remove Gendry. The castellan was alone with much of the Vale against him. Except they would have to pick a lord in the first place, and that would be a mess with the stormlords likely being divided over who would rule them.

Where is it said she doesn't? Everyone at the Eyrie knows, and likely her close friend Myranda knows, you think no one told her?

Except to make things easier they would likely pick someone with Baratheon blood.

Yes, he does, GRRM and in-universr shows that bastards have claims after trueborn children.

Lord Alester Florent was in Stannis's camp.

Not proof, but an argument regarding secret noble/royal heritage.

It is called Chekov's Gun. If Gendry has a secret noble heritage, why keep it hidden for so long unless it has a role to play? The same can be said for Jon and his heritage.

No she can't do whatever, or did you forget Meereen? GRRM makes it clear that even dragons have limits. A point further exemplified in WOIAF. Dany's journey would go through the riverlands given it is the heart of Westeros.

He does, bastards have claims after trueborn children.

Except you're ignoring that Ned and Brienne knew who his father was just by looking at him. He is the image of his father.

Arya met Gendry, and Jon knows Arya. Gendry will likely come into the fore later on. Jon isn't a bastard. Also, it is the Chekov's Gun. Why does GRRM keep Gendry's parentage an open secret if it isn't going to be of import somehow? You're calling my theory stupid?

Except how many looked at both him and Robert? Few in KL saw much or knew Robert.

How? It has yet happen, how is something that may happen to a character evidence with someone with far less importance get anything?

He was a outlaw part of a gang, he was very much a bandit. His knighthood came with no deeds done.

He is a smith who can't even read a map. And none would pick Gendry. They can still vote as GG and KG did.

Those men were peasants and warrior sons who called every once of men to fight after being smashed endlessly.

They do, he is a peasant with no real proof he is who he is. Um what castellan are you talking of? I am talking of Ronard the bastard, the only

known bastard to rule SE. Why would they not pick a lord? The iron born and GC do it no blame.

Known bastards, the hundred children of Ronard were left to their own devices.

She seeing how she only seems to remember her father as a tall man and not king of the continent or seemingly no one sees her as Bobby's daughter. When did anyone in the Eyrie say she was Bobby's bastard?

That is about any stormlord specific Tarth.

Usually after their parent acknowledge them, Gaemon, Trystane, both claimed royal bastards, but had no proof.

Lord Alester was imprisoned and burned alive.

Again, when did Martin say he who would use every point to the fullest? There are a endless amount of characters. Why is Mya not using hers or Bella?

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Only if Wylla is the daughter of Rhaegar .

[Minstral]

Do the Manderly's want to go back tot the Reach? a place they no longer know a great deal or are comfortable about? Would the other houses even want them back?

Only if Wylla is the daughter of Rhaegar .

It is known.

[Dimples]

Do the Manderly's want to go back tot the Reach? a place they no longer know a great deal or are comfortable about? Would the other houses even want them back?

They're too established in the North to move willingly, and I don't think any of the current houses would accept them, as any holdings the Manderlys might get would have to be carved out of the existing lords' domains. Ironically, they would probably be viewed as outsiders in the Reach, as they already are in the North.

[Minstral]

They're too established in the North to move willingly, and I don't think any of the current houses would accept them, as any holdings the Manderlys might get would have to be carved out of the existing lords' domains. Ironically, they would probably be viewed as outsiders in the Reach, as they already are in the North.

But they should totally move back to the Reach because some of the readers want this to happen. At the very least it appears that the maderly's are well situated regarding their current status. They have married Starks and other nobles of the North, and their current power puts them perhaps greater then what they were when they were vassals of Highgarden.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

It is called Chekov's Gun. If Gendry has a secret noble heritage, why keep it hidden for so long unless it has a role to play? The same can be said for Jon and his heritage.

So at the end of the series GRRM is going to repeat the exact same formula for both Jon and Gendry?

Chekovs gun is a dramatic principle, it loses that suspense if it happens multiple times.

Gendry was an important character when he was with Arya, he has been a tertiary character since.

No she can't do whatever, or did you forget Meereen? GRRM makes it clear that even dragons have limits. A point further exemplified in WOIAF. Dany's journey would go through the riverlands given it is the heart of Westeros.

lol

You have to be consistent with your arguments. You have constantly said that Gendry will become Lord of the Stormlands because he will be supported by people with Dragons who can do whatever they want. Now you are saying Dany cant do whatever she wants?

And you have still failed to give a reason why she would legitimize Gendry, a person she has never met or is likely to meet even if she is in the Riverlands. She's a Queen, a leader she is not going to be running in the same circles as a lowborn Smith.

He does, bastards have claims after trueborn children.

Acknowledged bastards do. There is a huge difference.

Except you're ignoring that Ned and Brienne knew who his father was just by looking at him. He is the image of his father.

Ned is dead. And you are forgetting that the best Ned was going to do for him when he was alive was make him a member of his entourage.

Brienne can bring him to Tarth, but that is as far as her influence goes. She is a woman knight whom the majority of people doesn't take seriously. Having never met Robert or Gendrys mother she is no position to claim that he is Roberts son.

Donnel Hill looks like a Lannister but he is not about to be freed from his oath on the Watch and given the Westerlands, there will be many people walking around who bear a resemblance to the Baratheons. It would be anarchy if they were all legitimized.

Arya met Gendry, and Jon knows Arya. Gendry will likely come into the fore later on. Jon isn't a bastard. Also, it is the Chekov's Gun. Why does GRRM keep Gendry's parentage an open secret if it isn't going to be of import somehow? You're calling my theory stupid?

You have pointed out that Ned, Brienne and Arya know. It is not a secret it is just unimportant, unacknowledged bastards get nothing.

Legitimate children, acknowledged bastards do.

Except how many looked at both him and Robert? Few in KL saw much or knew Robert.

Few in Kings Landing knew what the King looked like? Oh c'mon, now you are just arguing for the sake of it.

[OmnomnomPomelo]

They became so loyal to the Starks that I doubt they will return.

[Mikkel]

Acknowledged bastards do. There is a huge difference.

Acknowledged and legitimized bastards. Gendry is neither.

[The Wolves]

They became so loyal to the Starks that I doubt they will return.

And they are lords over a city the only city in the North and one of five cities in Westeros, plus their lands have silver mines and they have tons of lands, why would they return to the Reach where theh would have none of that.

[Mikkel]

And they are lords over a city the only city in the North and one of five cities in Westeros, plus their lands have silver mines and they have tons of lands, why would they return to the Reach where theh would have none of that.

To show the soft, fat southeners what the North can do... wait...

No, I agree, it makes zero sense for the Manderleys to desire a return to the Reach.

[Fire Eater]

I hate to repeat myself, but WMarshal and thelittledragonthatcould, stop derailing this thread? I meant that to be my last post. If you have anything to say make it about the OP, the Manderlys possibly returning to the Reach.