Pink Letter was written and sent by Mance

[OberynBlackfyre]

I believe Mance said to Jon that when across the wall he has no intentions of "kneeling" and obeying the laws of the 7 Kingdoms. He fully intends to keep the Free Folk life style. He must know this will lead to war with the Norther Houses. And he must of had some sort of plans to be ready for this. He was all but expecting to walk threw a wildling captured Castle Black. Mance loves the free folk and he seems to love democracy.

I could even suggest he was a visionary intending his 100k army to help him achieve a new political lifestyle in the North.

At the very least he was intending and had to have plans of fighting the Norther Lords

well of course. He also said he had the Horn of Joramun, and could bring the Wall down if he wanted :p His wife was also still alive and he had strong leaders and fighters behind him. Mance to a certain point did believe that he was going to save his people, and convert at least a good part of the North to the free folk way of life......before Stannis came, and he lost all his strong warrior and their leaders.

He would now be fighting the North with literally women and children, and maybe a handful of warriors. The Thenns would now oppose him, as they have their own House established and they are honor bound to defend their own lands. Plus like I said, he knows who the TRUE ENEMY is....killing people this side of the Wall would do nothing, and he has proven to be level headed, even heroic....not lusting for power.

[OberynBlackfyre]

I'm talking about the Black-sealed letter that sits on Stannis's table during the gift AWoW Theon chapter, not the Pink Letter. (Though I do address the Pink Letter in my earlier comment.)

I know.....I am just replying to one of her/his replies so I can express my opinion of their view of the Pink Letter haha.

as far to the Black Letter goes....i believe Tycho knew that it was important and probably concerned Stannis' safety, however I don't believe he knew the exact contents. Although, he was on hand whilst the whole Karstark thing was happening, so I doubt an intelligent man like him would have a problem realizing there was a traitor afoot...

[bemused]

Pink letter - from Stannis , via Bran/BR controlled raven , probably edited by Thorne / Marsh at CB.

It's main purpose is to warn Jon that Ramsay is coming.

It has been pointed out that it's unlikely Mance would want to reveal his ID , but Stannis was in the know about the glamour , and though I think Theon only knows him as Abel... Stannis could quite easily figure out who Abel is.

Because Tycho was still at CB when Val came back, he at least knows Tormund was going to come through the wall, and might have still been there to see it. I think this is also in the letter to Stannis , but Stannis would know through Tycho anyway.

So now we have a somewhat amusing scenario. While Stannis at first didn't want to be seen to spare Mance , now he wants to take credit for it, at least equally with Jon, since if Mance is captive , his identity may come out anyway. Stannis may hope some of these new wildlings will now be grateful to him for sparing Mance..

But I think he's still failing to see the lesson that has been pointed out repeatedly.. The free folk follow the strong leader , and Jon is supplanting Mance as that figure.. Mance is now seen as having done Jon's bidding , whereas previously, he was the one assigning tasks and missions to subordinate leaders.

And Jon has given the wildlings much better terms than Mance was able to get from Stannis.

[Oldgodsnewtricks]

Besides means, motive and opportunity, all of which appear to have been explored thoroughly vis a vis Stannis, Mance, Asha, and others including (oh yeah) Ramsey, there is also the question of character "fit." If it isn't Ramsey - a big if in this regard - then it should logically be someone with proven history of using trickery and role-playing. In this regard, so long Stannis, hello Mance and maybe Asha - both debut in the series by duping Jon and Theo respectively and playing the role of someone other than themselves... but Mance is the master and has taken it the furthest, as his "Abel" visit to Robert's feast at Winterfell attests. As a character, Mance is smart, ballsy, and likes a good game.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Am I in the minority by thinking that maybe Ramsay Snow actually wrote it?

I tend to think that Ramsay did write it, just that it's full of lies and bad intel.

ETA: That is to say, the real mystery isn't the authorship, but rather how much of it is true.

[Mithras]

The raven point is important. If Mance wrote it, then the only person who can send the raven is Whoresbane. You should include him too.

[Thucydides]

I tend to think that Ramsay did write it, just that it's full of lies and bad intel.

ETA: That is to say, the real mystery isn't the authorship, but rather how much of it is true.

I agree 100%. I think that the comparison to the conversation that Aragorn and Gandolf had with the Mouth or Sauron is a pretty good candidate for a literary parallel.

[jet199]

The raven point is important. If Mance wrote it, then the only person who can send the raven is Whoresbane. You should include him too.

Except the person who is apparently Whoresbane can't even seem to write his own name so I doubt his raven skills are up to much.

[Mithras]

Except the person who is apparently Whoresbane can't even seem to write his own name so I doubt his raven skills are up to much.

His sign might be ugly but I am sure he can write his name. Otherwise, he could not have been accepted to Citadel.

[finger]

IMO, the PL reads like Mance pretending to be Ramsay.

Why? Let's look at the context. Jon's the wildling king, and he's been enticed to rule the north. First, Stannis tried, now it's Mance's turn. Both know they won't be accepted by the northeners, but Jon could be. Some assessments beg more elaboration.

Stannis had offered Jon to give him Mance, disguised as Ratteshirt, but Mance knows he has to resign the command of the free people: "I'll range for you, bastard. I'll give you sage counsel, or sign you pretty songs, as you prefer. I'll even fight for you. Just don't ask me to wear your cloak."

Then comes an excahnge between Stannis and Jon:

... Give me the wildlings....

I gave you rattleshirt. Be content with him.

I want them all.

GRRM uses to present the ideas in couples or triplets. There are a couple of chapters in ADWD. In the first one, Theon resigns as Prince of the Iron Isles. He could have stayed with the ironborn and live or die with them. He'd better sell his 63 people to Ramsay.

The next chapter Jon claimed his invisible crown when he raised his first levy of 63 people from beyond the Wall.

The symbol is fine, but fealtthy has to be declared.

The first, Halleck: "Idon't like you, crow, but I never liked the Mance, neither, no more'n my sister did. Still, we fought for him. Why not fight for you?"

Then, Mance him put him to test when he challenged him at the yard. (He did, he didn't hurt him more than in any drill, but he tried his courage, strength,...) Somehow he seemed to make see that he was accepting, not surrendering, like "you'll got us while you'll be true."

Then come Val, Tormund, the wildling assembly,.. Well, Jon "died" king of the wildling, or whatever they style him.

[Ahura Mazda]

The letter may be fake overall (what would it really take - some pink sealing wax and bad language ?). I suspect the same Ides of Marsh conspiracy - Bowen, Alliser Thorne, possibly Selyse, who really do not want Jon in charge of the Watch. (Maybe the Boltons are more in contact with the conspirators against Jon than is generally understood.)

I do not think Mance would do this, since it makes little sense. Jon Snow - despite all that's happened - is someone Mance knows to be in basic agreement with his plan to save the wildlings by taking them beyond the wall. Jon has been remarkably open-minded for a crow, whereas Bowen Marsh would let them all die and squander the strength on the Wall in pointless conflicts. So why do something that would benefit your foes ?

I would join your bandwagon too, if I didn't read the content of the letter myself. By analysing the way in which sentences are put together, the word used and overused.. it seems to me clear that it has been thought by Mance, and it required him learning a little bit of truth on Ramsay from Theon.

Bowen Thorne and Selyse aren't informed enough nor smart enough to come up with such a good plan, unless Mance joined them which is unlikely.

[Mad Monkey]

If Selyse is involved in this at all, the letter has to be a complete fake. If any of it is real, then she would not want Jon removed because of the risk that the NW will turn her and her people out (or at least try to).

[Mithras]

The purpose of the PL for me is to lure Jon and other people mentioned in the letter out of CB as soon as possible. It was either a trap set by Ramsay or Stannis/Mance summon him with their own reasons. The stabbing event could not be anticipated by the writer of the letter unless BR is involved.

[JLE]

I believe that *if* Ramsay wrote it, he was bluffing on a great deal of it - but not necessarily all.

[dragonsrule]

I believe Ramsay wrote the letter because it mentions Reek. This is a reference that would be meaningless to Jon and why would anyone else put it in? Don't know how much is true though.

[Gneisenau]

Is it even reasonable to assume Mance, who was a wildling raised at the Wall can write ?

[Ahura Mazda]

Is it even reasonable to assume Mance, who was a wildling raised at the Wall can write ?

Why not? He can sing and use a musical instrument.. he must have been educated by someone at the wall at some point in time.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

PL to me seems very Ramseyish, you know, i feel it is written by Ramsey considering how intimidating it is. I don't think Mance or Stannis can pull that off.

[Thucydides]

Is it even reasonable to assume Mance, who was a wildling raised at the Wall can write ?

Mance was raised from childhood by the Night's Watch, likely educated by one of their Maesters.

[Mad Monkey]

PL to me seems very Ramseyish, you know, i feel it is written by Ramsey considering how intimidating it is. I don't think Mance or Stannis can pull that off.

That's my theory too. The sheer level of douchiness there is not something you can just fake. Stannis and Mance can be assholes when they want to, but they are nothing compared to Ramsay. I can just see Ramsay's fat wormy lips twisting with mirth as he manages to squeeze another insult or threat into the sentences.