Suzanna Stormborn Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 CosimaistheHottest, on 05 Feb 2014 - 5:08 PM, said:Why wouldn't Lyanna be okay with it? To the North and the Starks which is what she was, the Night"s Watch was an honorable profession so much so that trueborn Starks actually go in. Just think of Jon being fourth son trueborn or not of Lord Stark, he could end up in the Night's Watch. If he was happy in the Night Watch, why wouldn't she want that for him? I don't get the bolded, Of course she probably asked Ned to make sure her son is safe and happy and healthy. Why wouldn't she? Safety is usually a mother's number one concern. Even moreso if she doesn't care about the stupid throne and just wants her son to live. the bolded are 2 completely different statements. adding "happy' into the mix would change everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 I asked why wouldn't Lyanna want her son to join, not why a northern boy wouldn't want to join. these are the reasons lyanna wouldnt want her son to go. #1. its freezing #2. its a life of service when they come from a life of being served #3. along with all the murderers, rapists, thieves and other sentenced men, some of these men could even be your direct superior look at how Sam took it. Jon fared ok because he was so fit and was trained by a knight, but obviously he still had a ton of problems and a lot of the boys teased him and called him Lord Snow. He was able to get by cuz he was strong willed and strong physically, but he was obviously an exception. not to mention. He is Rhaegars son and maybe she feels his talents would be better used elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 So but they do go. Benjen isn't that old. Do we even know how long he has been in the Night Watch and he still willingly went. when did i say 'no one would ever want to do it?' I said 'most' highborn boys, i also said 'a lot' of boys. which means some would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Jon thinking in Dance>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Something Martin said over a decade ago :)I hate to use this arguments because it doesn't happen as often as some think, however, this is a case of unreliable narrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 these are the reasons lyanna wouldnt want her son to go. Honestly, as long as Jon is safe I would say that Ned fulfilled his entire duty to Lyanna despite what she made him promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Honestly, as long as Jon is safe I would say that Ned fulfilled his entire duty to Lyanna despite what she made him promise.To me the promise WAS to keep him safe. As a mother I would imagine that's paramount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Benjen being at the Wall probably made it easier for Ned letting Jon go because at least he'd have family there and it would be good for Benjen too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 :D Sorry, I couldn't resist- http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5r4ieGiXQ1rxflgko1_500.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djinn Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Can someone point out which bastards in Westeros get a better treatment/upbringing that Jon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Can someone point out which bastards in Westeros get a better treatment/upbringing that Jon? Joffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Can someone point out which bastards in Westeros get a better treatment/upbringing that Jon?Arguably the Frey bastards, as well as the Twincest threesome. That's basically it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Dayne's Honor Alt Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 :D Sorry, I couldn't resist- http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5r4ieGiXQ1rxflgko1_500.jpgthis.is.awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Arguably the Frey bastards, as well as the Twincest threesome. That's basically it! I doubt the Frey bastards were treated as well, especially as I doubt that any Frey besides Stevron Frey recieved all that great of treatment despite Walder caring for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosimaistheHottest Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 If Walder Frey can find a highborn girl for his illegitimate son, then you know Ned Stark can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I doubt the Frey bastards were treated as well, especially as I doubt that any Frey besides Stevron Frey recieved all that great of treatment despite Walder caring for them.That's why I added arguably. We don't know how they were treated, what their education was or anything. They're just the only other bastards I can think of that live with their parent that isn't treated like a servant (Falia ((sp?)) Flowers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WierWood Wolf Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Ned caused it by his complete lack of planning in regards to Jon's future. Ned easily could have chosen to have Jon fostered when he decided to leave. Instead he wrongly assumes he can pawn off his responsibility for taking care of Jon onto Cat. Jon is in no way Cat's responsibility. Ned has made that clear over the years by his refusal to allow Cat to have any say in his rearing. Cat is not the bad guy because she refuses to tolerate her husband's bastard without her husband there. Ned is the bad guy for not having made a single plan for Jon. I'm not sure if the great house would foster a bastard. Is there any instances,of a bastard being fostered. As far as Ned allowing Cat any say in Jon's rearing, I don't think she wanted any say other than getting him out of WF. Ned's plan is to allow a bond between Jon and the other Stark children to grow so when Rob became Lord Jon would be taken care of. Not a great plan but the 7 Kingdoms had been at peace for 14 years at this point. The North is isolated and Ned has no idea of the powder keg that is about to explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm not sure if the great house would foster a bastard. Is there any instances,of a bastard being fostered. Edric Storm lives in Uncle's castle rather then with his father or mother, Laurence Snow seems to have been fostered out to the Glovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm not sure if the great house would foster a bastard. Is there any instances,of a bastard being fostered. As far as Ned allowing Cat any say in Jon's rearing, I don't think she wanted any say other than getting him out of WF. Ned's plan is to allow a bond between Jon and the other Stark children to grow so when Rob became Lord Jon would be taken care of.Not a great plan but the 7 Kingdoms had been at peace for 14 years at this point. The North is isolated and Ned has no idea of the powder keg that is about to explode.Who needs a great house to foster Jon? Fostering him at a northern house would be far better, especially one with a marriage attached, like Mormont, Reed or Manderly. They all have eligible daughters in Jon's age range (Mormont's eldest daughter is 8-10 years oldee, but still in marriage range). Any of these houses would be good because it would re solidify ties to the Starks. Manderly would be the hardest sell, but Jon wouldn't be being set up as Heir like with Mormont or Reed. Howland would happily take Jon, even without a marriage pact. I'm sure the Mormont ladies would agree because Jon would take their name. I'm sure even the Umbers would happily take him. This arrangement would benefit from the Robb/Jon bond because it ties their family closer to the warden, giving them more recognition. I know Cat didn't want a say in Jon's rearing, but by completely blocking her it creates more bad feelings. If he consulted Cat at all, it may have reinforced the idea that Jon isn't a threat, which clearly Cat feels he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onna Lewyys Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 It's possible that Lyanna grew up with the same "black knights of the Wall" b.s. that her nieces and nephews did, so she might have seen it as a noble calling. That might have been why Benjen joined, after all. That's weird, though, considering that as wardens of the North, the Starks have the most contact with the NW, so they should know what it's really like there. Add that to Ned's failures for his children - not preparing Jon for how life really is at the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleiz Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 To echo previous posters, I do not think Ned handled Jon's future very well at all. He didn't - as far as we are aware - ever talk to Jon about his future or even a heart to heart to see if joining the watch was really what he wanted. I always got the impression that Jon only chose the Watch as he thought it was his best option, not knowing or presuming that he may have a decent chance at other, better options. Ned sends him off to the Watch despite his own reservations on his age and the personal sacrifices Jon would have to make (i.e. forsaking family - both current and a potential future one of his own) without so much as a thought to the many other options he could have given Jon that Jon himself may not have been aware of. I mean how many 14 year olds really know what they want to do with their lives or what is available to them for that matter? Once Jon takes the vows, he cannot take them back. Though it could be argued that Ned, at this point, would have been under emotional stress, that he had his blinkers on when it came to agreeing to send Jon to the Watch. His foster father murdered, Lannisters in his home and Robert Baratheon in such close proximity to Jon his mind may have been all over the place with worry. Taking Jon to KL was never on the table for Ned, though Cat wouldn't have ever known the real reason. Ned has spent the past 14 years honouring his promise to Lyanna and keeping Jon safe, that he was no doubt paranoid at any notion that his biggest and most dangerous secret may be revealed. KL is full of many people who knew Rhaegar personally (and knew him a lot better than Ned did), sure Jon has the dark hair, long face and grey eyes but the rest of his features are a mystery to us. Could he have inherited Rhaegar's nose? Lips? Chin? Ears? what about his eye shape or his brow? If not his looks then what about his mannerisms, do they have the same smile? frown? daydream face? general disposition? I don't think Ned would have taken the chance, no matter how remote it could be, that Jon can be connected to Rhaegar in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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