What did Ned really want for Jon's future?

[Dany Girl]

I think Ned was in a dilemma as to what to do with Jon after Robert asks him to be hand. The fact that Jon wanted to join the NW gave Ned an easy out, even if he didnt think it was actually the best place for Jon. If Ned had 100% wanted Jon to stay at WF he would have told Catelyn to shut up and deal with it, seems like he was on the verge of doing so before he found out Jon wanted to go with Benjen. Which, IMO, was due to his 'bastard' status and the fact that he had received nothing but icicles from Catelyn most of his life. But on the other hand Ned had to keep r+l=j such a secret that he had to throw away Jon's honor, Jon's chance at a good marriage, basically all of Jon's choices in life were incredibly narrowed due to this secret Ned felt he had to keep because his best friend Bobby has sworn to kill all Targ's. Which is why I seriously doubt Ned really wanted Jon to go spend his life at the wall. but after Jon wanted to go to the wall, what could Ned say to him? What reason could he give for wanting Jon to stay at WF without telling him the secret?

I don't think Jon's options were as limited as many people say. Many bastards have taken many noble positions over the years, and as Warden of the North's bastard, there are even more options.

I get not wanting to take him to KL, and I get that Jon asked for the NW, but Ned agrees without even speaking to him or attempting to establish another option (warding with Reeds, Umbers, Mormonts or even Manderlys). Ned was incredibly short sighted in regards to Jon's future, even outside of his leaving for KL. At 14 a child's life should be on track for something, especially a boy. None of his children have plans for what they'll do or who they'll marry, which is not good planning.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

That doesn't make it any less cruel though.

She would have probably been happy to give him a horse and some supplies then tell him to leave, not caring where he went.

It does. She has no responsibility whatsoever to him. She is not forced to like him, and Jon had other options.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

because a jealous and spiteful wife is the perfect cover for a bastard. she helped keep the secret very well by her coldness towards Jon. If she had been accepting of him it would have been more obvious that it was a lie to begin with. Ned takes the entire burden of R+L=J on himself alone for 14 years.

I think for me, the biggest question had always been why Ned didn't sent him to Howland instead of letting him continue to stay in Winterfell. I'd say the fact that he raised his "bastard" among his trueborns called some people's attention.

[Dany Girl]

That doesn't make it any less cruel though.

She would have probably been happy to give him a horse and some supplies then tell him to leave, not caring where he went.

It's really not cruel. Cat never suggests he figures it out on his own. She only demands that Ned make some arraignment for his future, which Ned us woefully behind on. No noble woman would accept their husbands bastard as well as Cat did. He'll, that Flowers girl was forced to be a servant in her father's household! Cersei threatened to kill Mya when Robert wanted to bring her to court. Cat was actually incredibly accepting of the situation.

[Minsc]

That doesn't make it any less cruel though.

She would have probably been happy to give him a horse and some supplies then tell him to leave, not caring where he went.

Her not wanting to take of her husband's bastard (whom isn't her responsibility) is hardly cruel. It is Ned's duty to ensure that Jon is provided for and it was his lack preparation and refusal to take Jon that created the limited options for Jon's future when Ned was going down to King's Landing.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

It does. She has no responsibility whatsoever to him. She is not forced to like him, and Jon had other options.

You mean the option to condemn himself to never have any joy in life because a grown up woman can't be mature enough and is meanspirited and jealous of a motherless child?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I don't think Jon's options were as limited as many people say. Many bastards have taken many noble positions over the years, and as Warden of the North's bastard, there are even more options.

I get not wanting to take him to KL, and I get that Jon asked for the NW, but Ned agrees without even speaking to him or attempting to establish another option (warding with Reeds, Umbers, Mormonts or even Manderlys). Ned was incredibly short sighted in regards to Jon's future, even outside of his leaving for KL. At 14 a child's life should be on track for something, especially a boy. None of his children have plans for what they'll do or who they'll marry, which is not good planning.

Yes I agree Jon did have more choices. But once Jon wanted to go to the Wall, I guess NEd felt it was the easiest thing to do. And didn't want to argue with him........It'a almost as if, like a poster stated earlier, that Jon being a bastard was reinforced more by Ned than it is anywhere else in the books. As you all have said there were, in reality, lots of choices for Jon, but Ned states (or thinks) over and over that Jon will have such a hard time in life because he is a bastard. In fact it seems like some of this downer attitude may have leaked into Jon and made him believe the stereotypes a little bit. Ned could have stopped Catelyn from being so harsh to Jon all those years, it's almost like he encouraged people to treat Jon like a bastard, simply to even further hide the truth from Jon himself. If you know what I mean.

[Jairion Lannister]

because a jealous and spiteful wife is the perfect cover for a bastard. she helped keep the secret very well by her coldness towards Jon. If she had been accepting of him it would have been more obvious that it was a lie to begin with. Ned takes the entire burden of R+L=J on himself alone for 14 years.

But he could have told her, and said to her to be sort of horrible to Jon in public but not behind closed doors when it mattered. Catelyn being friendly towards him could have been seen in that she was simply being a decent person, which she generally is.

[CosimaistheHottest]

It's really not cruel. Cat never suggests he figures it out on his own. She only demands that Ned make some arraignment for his future, which Ned us woefully behind on. No noble woman would accept their husbands bastard as well as Cat did. He'll, that Flowers girl was forced to be a servant in her father's household! Cersei threatened to kill Mya when Robert wanted to bring her to court. Cat was actually incredibly accepting of the situation.

Jon would be dead if Ned was married to Cersei.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

You mean the option to condemn himself to never have any joy in life because a grown up woman can't be mature enough and is meanspirited and jealous of a motherless child?

Jon chose the Night's Watch. Cat hardly forced him to go there. He's not condemned to anything, that was his choice. He had other options, besides Staying in Winterfell/Going to the Night's Watch. And considering It was his choice to go there, I hardly think he though he'd never have any Joy.

[Minsc]

You mean the option to condemn himself to never have any joy in life because a grown up woman can't be mature enough and is meanspirited and jealous of a motherless child?

Ned sent him to Wall, because Jon wanted it. Moreover, Jon has hardly lived a joyless life at the Wall. Finally, who would care about an entitled bully like Jon Snow.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

But he could have told her, and said to her to be sort of horrible to Jon in public but not behind closed doors when it mattered. Catelyn being friendly towards him could have been seen in that she was simply being a decent person, which she generally is.

He could have told her, I agree that Ned keeping it such a secret borders on obsession and really didn't do Jon any favors at this point in life. I mean I would think Ned could at least trust his wife to keep it a secret. But IDk, I guess it all goes back to whatever his promise was to Lyanna.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Jon choose the Night's Watch. Cat hardly forced him to go there. He's not condemned to anything, that was his choice. He had other options, besides Staying in Winterfell/Going to the Night's Watch. And considering It was his choice to go there, I hardly think he though he'd never have any Joy.

BUt I think he was beaten down by a life of being told he is a bastard, and having an unloving mother, and the fact that Ned obviously excludes Jon on purpose to keep up the charade and keep the secret.

He had to sit at the bastard table for pete's sake

[Dany Girl]

You mean the option to condemn himself to never have any joy in life because a grown up woman can't be mature enough and is meanspirited and jealous of a motherless child?

Oh boo hoo 1 person was ever kinda mean to him. Cat wasn't his mother, and wasn't cruel to him outside on 1 incident according to the author himself. Her "cruelty" was cold looks and avoiding him. He had many other people around him that were kind and affectionate to him. His views on being a bastard clearly come from Ned, not Cat. Cat had no responsibility twords Jon. Ned should have seen to it he understood why, and found someone to take up that "motherly" roll he lacked.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Jon chose the Night's Watch. Cat hardly forced him to go there. He's not condemned to anything, that was his choice. He had other options, besides Staying in Winterfell/Going to the Night's Watch. And considering It was his choice to go there, I hardly think he though he'd never have any Joy.

As Ned said he was just a boy. He had to do that because of Cat's treatment.

[Dany Girl]

Jon would be dead if Ned was married to Cersei.

Jon would not have survived infancy with Cersei as his father's wife. The only bastards that seem to have remotely better than Jon are the Frey bastatds, because the Frey wives are so conditioned to never say a word against Walder.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Oh boo hoo 1 person was ever kinda mean to him. Cat wasn't his mother, and wasn't cruel to him outside on 1 incident according to the author himself. Her "cruelty" was cold looks and avoiding him. He had many other people around him that were kind and affectionate to him. His views on being a bastard clearly come from Ned, not Cat. Cat had no responsibility twords Jon. Ned should have seen to it he understood why, and found someone to take up that "motherly" roll he lacked.

YEs it was all Ned's fault, Cat was behaving as anyone would have. Or like you said earlier, better than some would have.

[Minsc]

He had to sit at the bastard table for pete's sake

It wasn't even that, he was able to sit with numerous other trueborn noble and knightly youths of his same age. But, that is too low for the great Jon Snow so he still bitched and whined about it.

As Ned said he was just a boy. He had to do that because of Cat's treatment.

No, he had to because Ned's treatment. In how, Ned didn't want to take him to King's Landing or foster him out.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

BUt I think he was beaten down by a life of being told he is a bastard, and having an unloving mother, and the fact that Ned obviously excludes Jon on purpose to keep up the charade and keep the secret.

He had to sit at the bastard table for pete's sake

I think that's unfair, though. There are a lot of other bastards around that didn't even got to see their parents and they don't have a miserable life. Ned gave Jon the best life he could have. Jon had other options with his abilities. And is sitting on the bastard table that bad? He still sat with many other nobles.

As Ned said he was just a boy. He had to do that because of Cat's treatment.

But that wasn't his only choice. He didn't had to do anything besides leaving Winterfell. He'd be well treated in any other House in the North.

[Dany Girl]

As Ned said he was just a boy. He had to do that because of Cat's treatment.

He did not have to do it. He had numerous options that he didn't even bother to think about. Cat never even said a word after Luwin brought up the NW. That was Luwin and Benjen.