What did Ned really want for Jon's future?

[Lord Voldemort's Toes]

he did back Stannis, so Ned definitely did not want to overthrow the Baratheons with Jon. But do you think he planned to tell Jon who his parents were when he got back to WF and visited Jon at the wall.

Also, When Ned is imprisoned at KL I remember him doing some serious soul searching about everything. maybe he realized then he had made a lot of mistakes?

Yeah, he was in all likelihood going to reveal everything to Jon upon his return, especially since his ordeals in KL would have given him new perspective on his mortality and how unfair it would be to Jon if he died before telling him the truth. I mean, once Jon's at the wall, there's not much he can do about it anyway, even if his newly revealed parentage inspired him to unforseen levels of Targaryan ambition/megalomania.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

That was in the show, Ned never told Jon he would come to talk to him at the wall.

are you sure? gah the show messes me all up. So when Jon left WF Ned didnt say anything about ever seeing him again?

[XSarellaX]

Why do you guys think Ned was so shocked that Jon wanted to join the Watch? Even if he thinks it's a hard life, it's not that strange that Jon would look up to Benjen and want to be a ranger.

By the time he found out Robert was a terrible king, Joffrey an even worse heir, the children ilegitimate, Jon was already pledged to the NW. Ned would never have him break his vows to become king. If he was still in WF, I can see Ned thinking to himself that Jon would be much a better option than Joffrey, but never acting on it.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I think that Ned wanted Jon to be safe fullstop. He never said anything about sending Jon to the Wall, that was Cat, who tho she had no right, who didn't wanted Jon to WF and Maester Luwin. Sure Jon asked for it after he saw how unwelcomed he was at WF. But Ned made clear that he wanted him to be close to Robb.

and that is when I started to hate Cat.

Funny, how your quote doesn't have anything about Catelyn saying anything about sending Jon to the Wall.

Yeah it was benjen, luwin, Jon and Ned who decided Jon should go, Cat just silently agreed.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Why do you guys think Ned was so shocked that Jon wanted to join the Watch?

Because he said so

“Jon is so young. If he asked this when he was a man grown, that would be one thing, but a boy of fourteen…”

He said that he is too young.

Yeah it was benjen, luwin, Jon and Ned who decided Jon should go, Cat just silently agreed.

Cately caused it when she said, with having no right, that Jon can't stay at WF.

[Minsc]

Cately caused it when she said, with having no right, that Jon can't stay at WF.

She was being left as Regent of Winterfell thus she had every right, otherwise Ned would ignored her demand and forced Jon to stay at Winterfell. Funny, how you complain about Jon being condemned for something he did in the text while having no problem condemning Catelyn for something that text completely disproves. Aka that Catelyn was the one that recommended the Wall.

[The Wolves]

are you sure? gah the show messes me all up. So when Jon left WF Ned didnt say anything about ever seeing him again?

Yeah I'm sure Ned never told Jon that.

[Dany Girl]

Cately caused it when she said, with having no right, that Jon can't stay at WF.

Ned caused it by his complete lack of planning in regards to Jon's future. Ned easily could have chosen to have Jon fostered when he decided to leave. Instead he wrongly assumes he can pawn off his responsibility for taking care of Jon onto Cat. Jon is in no way Cat's responsibility. Ned has made that clear over the years by his refusal to allow Cat to have any say in his rearing. Cat is not the bad guy because she refuses to tolerate her husband's bastard without her husband there. Ned is the bad guy for not having made a single plan for Jon.

[Dany Girl]

are you sure? gah the show messes me all up. So when Jon left WF Ned didnt say anything about ever seeing him again?

In the show Ned tells Jon they'll talk about his mother next time they meet. In the books Ned regrets not telling him while he's locked in the Black Cells. Ned never told Jon he'd tell him in book though.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Yeah I'm sure Ned never told Jon that.

Well then the show wrote it better. Seems weird that Ned didnt at least say he would see him again one day when he got back.

[Whitering]

Ned wanted to do right by Jon, but at the time when he thought everything was okay, he felt the Night's Watch was a noble future (he probably doesn't know just how gross it is). He never intended to tell Jon the truth.

It wasn't until he realized that his world was in a very precarious position that he regrets not telling Jon the truth, is that how he really feels or just an act of contrition in his final hour? I don't know. Maybe his whole world view shifted in the final few months of his life.

So, what he wanted was for Jon to have a good life and in Ned's somewhat naive view (probably Benjen didn't really tell him the truth because he didn't seem like a whiner) the Night's Watch is a wonderfully noble place to spend your life, and in Ned's view nobility and honour were the most important things.

[The Wolves]

Well then the show wrote it better. Seems weird that Ned didnt at least say he would see him again one day when he got back.

They probably did have a convo saying goodbye but we didn't get it in the books. I don't think Ned was planning on ever telling Jon anytime about L+R=J if true.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

In the show Ned tells Jon they'll talk about his mother next time they meet. In the books Ned regrets not telling him while he's locked in the Black Cells. Ned never told Jon he'd tell him in book though.

OK so then we can surmise from that; that Ned would have told Jon if had seen him again. And I am thinking Jon would have taken that information much the same as Robb took it when he was told what was happening to Ned in KL............although, when Jon heard about Ned he decided to stay true to his vows (with the help of his sworn brothers). but in DwD Jon does decide to march on WF, thus breaking part of his vows, so it was always in him to leave the watch when the circumstances were dire enough.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Ned caused it by his complete lack of planning in regards to Jon's future. Ned easily could have chosen to have Jon fostered when he decided to leave. Instead he wrongly assumes he can pawn off his responsibility for taking care of Jon onto Cat. Jon is in no way Cat's responsibility. Ned has made that clear over the years by his refusal to allow Cat to have any say in his rearing. Cat is not the bad guy because she refuses to tolerate her husband's bastard without her husband there. Ned is the bad guy for not having made a single plan for Jon.

Ned had no time to plan, I mean before leaving, Jon was too old to be fostered at that age. Cat on the other hand had only power because of her children, herself had no power to say who leaves and who stay. If she had no childen then she had no power and a legitimizedJon comes before her. So Cat because she is well Cat, threw him out when Ned, who was kind enough to allow her to have a saying, wanted him to stay near Robb.

I like that part of the series when Cat say:

He got the pox and I knew I was the worst woman who ever lived. A murderer. I'd condemned this poor, innocent child to a horrible death all because I was jealous of his mother, a woman he didn't even know! So I prayed to all Seven Gods "Let the boy live. Let him live and I'll love him. I'll be a mother to him. I'll beg my husband to give him a true name, to call him Stark and be done with it, to make him one of us". [...]And he lived. And I couldn't keep my promise. And everything that's happened since then, all this horror that's come to my family... it's all because I couldn't love a motherless child.

I think that describes exactly how messed up and how petty Cat was about Jon. But at least there she seems to understand it herself and that is why I think that they had created that scene, to explain Cat's feelings. Maybe that is why I liked TVCat a little.

[briantw]

This is something, I've often thought of. How much of the Robert/Cersei rule, could he stomach; especially if he thought he could place someone better on the throne. At the very least, I'm sure he thought about it and I'm sure he said "this is what we fought and so many died for?" to himself. But, then again; would Ned go against Stannis and his rightful claim after the death of Robert.

For one, overthrowing Robert would inherently mean killing him, and there is absolutely no way Ned would have done that.

We already know the answer to your second question. Ned did support Stannis' claim, and he never even considered Jon Snow or the Targs returning in any of his viewpoint chapters for even a single line.

[Onna Lewyys]

I definitely agree that Ned was shortsighted about his children's futures. But he was teaching Jon alongside Robb about being a lord - how to command men and things like that - so I do think in the back of his mind he did want something more for Jon.

Ned was shocked in the book when Maester Luwin said Jon wanted to join the NW. And even when he agrees, Catelyn says his voice sounded "troubled." So I don't think he wanted Jon to join the NW, but he really had no leg to stand on in opposing it. He couldn't take Jon to KL, and Catelyn refused to have him at Winterfell. So what could he do?

[The hairy bear]

I think Ned was very short sighted for all his children, especially Jon. None of his kids were fostered out or had plans to do so, none had any betrothals set up, and Robb and Jon were past the point where arrangements should have been being made. Arya is allowed to run around basically unchecked, which is not acceptable for a female in their society, good luck marrying her off!

I think that a big part of this is due to Eddard's terrible experiences in the past. Rickard Stark had "Southern ambitions" and made plans to foster and marry his children. Look how well that paid off: Barbrey forced to leave Brandon, Eddard forced to leave Ashara, Lyanna running away from Robert, and a full-scale Civil War.

It's easy to see how Ned overcompensated in the opposite direction. I'm sure he made the conscious decision not to use his children as political pawns, and to allow every one of them to chose who they'd want to marry.

Well then the show wrote it better. Seems weird that Ned didnt at least say he would see him again one day when he got back.

If you want to keep a secret, you don't tell it to anyone. And Ned promised it.

The book wrote it far better. What would have !ShowNed done? Would he tell Jon "look boy: you are the Rhaegar's heir and the rightful king, but you can't do absolutely anything about it, so please keep it to yourself for the rest of your life" ?!? That's cruel.

[Minsc]

Ned had no time to plan, I mean before leaving, Jon was too old to be fostered at that age. Cat on the other hand had only power because of her children, herself had no power to say who leaves and who stay. If she had no childen then she had no power and a legitimizedJon comes before her. So Cat because she is well Cat, threw him out when Ned, who was kind enough to allow her to have a saying, wanted him to stay near Robb.

Ned could have easily brought Jon along with him to King's Landing, or as easily sent a quick raven to Howland Reed who would have immediately agreed to foster Jon despite his age. Wow, two other options that Ned could have made besides sending Jon to the Wall.

Catelyn had power because Ned decided to invest into her power of Regent, thus she has power to say who leaves and who can stay in agreement with Ned.

Her not having kids is irrelevant as she has five children, and Jon was never legitimized by Ned thus that is equally irrelevant.

Nope, Ned is the one that abandoned him by refusing to take care of his own son. Though, can you blame him for not wanting Jon around him constantly embarrassing him with his crying and bullying?

[Northbound2.0]

For one, overthrowing Robert would inherently mean killing him, and there is absolutely no way Ned would have done that.

We already know the answer to your second question. Ned did support Stannis' claim, and he never even considered Jon Snow or the Targs returning in any of his viewpoint chapters for even a single line.

Of course, he wouldn't do it. We all know that. But this was a hypothetical thread and I have always thought and wondered if the idea ever presented it's self in Ned's thoughts...off page.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I think that a big part of this is due to Eddard's terrible experiences in the past. Rickard Stark had "Southern ambitions" and made plans to foster and marry his children. Look how well that paid off: Barbrey forced to leave Brandon, Eddard forced to leave Ashara, Lyanna running away from Robert, and a full-scale Civil War.

It's easy to see how Ned overcompensated in the opposite direction. I'm sure he made the conscious decision not to use his children as political pawns, and to allow every one of them to chose who they'd want to marry.

If you want to keep a secret, you don't tell it to anyone. And Ned promised it.

The book wrote it far better. What would have !ShowNed done? Would he tell Jon "look boy: you are the Rhaegar's heir and the rightful king, but you can't do absolutely anything about it, so please keep it to yourself for the rest of your life" ?!? That's cruel.

I am saying, in the book, when Ned left he didnt even say 'Bye Jon Ill come see you when I'm home' or anything. I just meant that on the show at least Ned said 'bye and Ill see you again one day'