maxkim Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 in what world is Brienne more beautiful than Cersei? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 In a world where beauty is in the eye of the beholder...or when we're looking at inner beauty, rather than simply good bone structure. Ok, so we can have the exact wording... Queen you shall be...until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down, and take all that you hold dear. Then on the topic of Cersei's children and death... Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you. So, Cersei was the one who assumed that "another" referred to another queen-which is logical given the context, but it could also just mean another woman. I wonder if GRRM has ever spoken on the topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 A spasm of anger rippled across her father’s face. “I warn you, Arianne, I am out of patience.”“With me?” That is so like him. “For Lord Tywin and the Lannisters you always had the forbearance of Baelor the Blessed, but for your own blood, none.”“You mistake patience for forbearance. I have worked at the downfall of Tywin Lannister since the day they told me of Elia and her children. It was my hope to strip him of all that he held most dear before I killed him, but it would seem his dwarf son has robbed me of that pleasure. I take some small solace in knowing that he died a cruel death at the hands of the monster that he himself begot. Be that as it may. Lord Tywin is howling down in hell... where thousands more will soon be joining him, if your folly turns to war.” The bolded part is strikingly similar to the prophecy. Doran wanted this treatment for Tywin. His daughter can succeed it for Tywin's daughter. I strongly believe that Arianne will marry fAegon and be his queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 in what world is Brienne more beautiful than Cersei? Inner beauty. Not all beauty is on the outside. Cersei may be beautiful outside but she's vile inside. Brienne is the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxkim Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 idk, the beauty part seemed to be too big a part of the prophecy to mean something as cliche as inner beauty. I thought it clearly showed how Cersei was losing everything, including men thinking of her as beautiful, because someone even more attractive was taking her place. Brienne doesnt fit in my mind. And look at the wording, it has to be another queen. If not, it would have said "Someone else" instead of "Another." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Val. The QUEEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tini Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 What can she do about it? Tell Westeros how scandalous the Twincest is? She was born of incest so that would make her a hypocrite and I really can't see her caring about it. The only reason she would have to do this is to prove Tommen's claim to the Throne invalid but that doesn't matter either, the only valid claim to the throne is the Targaryen one in her opinion. She's there to retake the throne as it's rightful Queen....until Aegon or Jon comes along. However, she will most likely slay the 'valid' claim to the Throne (F)Aegon has. She is born of incest, but she is not a bastard. And she is a legitimate descendant of Westerosi kings. Such things matter: Robert Baratheon was a usurper, but he had a real claim to the Iron Throne through his Targaryen grandmother. That is the reason why the rebels made him king. Dany can tell Westeros that they are ruled by Lannister bastards without any claim to the throne. Does she need to do that to take the throne? No, she doesn't. But she doesn't only want to take the throne, she wants to hold it. The case study of Robert Baratheon (and heirs) shows that it is much easier to win a throne than to hold it. Dany has learned that lesson in Meereen: She is Queen of Meereen, but she could not defeat the Harpy and her Sons. Robert Baratheon always feared Targaryen supporters, and a Targaryen ruler will likewise be threatened by Baratheon supporters. Even if she kills all Baratheons she can catch. It will be much simpler if she can prove that Tommen and Myrcella have no claim to the throne at all. Many Baratheon supporters will desert them, which leaves only Stannis (and Shireen) who is weakened by Baratheon in-fighting. (Of course Aegon may have taken care of Tommen and Myrcella by the time Dany reaches Westeros.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 idk, the beauty part seemed to be too big a part of the prophecy to mean something as cliche as inner beauty. I thought it clearly showed how Cersei was losing everything, including men thinking of her as beautiful, because someone even more attractive was taking her place. Brienne doesnt fit in my mind. And look at the wording, it has to be another queen. If not, it would have said "Someone else" instead of "Another." Well assuming you're right Maxkim, then the only viable possibilities are Margaery, Arianne, Dany,and Sansa. Margaery, is the one Cersei fears, but the point is that Cersei, is usually wrong so it's unlikely. Also if Tommen dies, then Margaery won't be Queen anymore, will she? And she's going to have a LOT of problems in the future, once Robert Strong wins Cersei's freedom-her days may be numbered. Arianne-She could be declared Queen if she does marry fAegon. She won't be Queen for very long before it goes bad for her, but there will be a time period when she might be able to claim she's 'ursurped' Cersei's role. Also it's entirely possible Dorne will play a role in the deaths of Tommen and/or Myrcella. But no personal relationship with Cersei to build up the drama. Daenerys-Hates the Lannisters, is coming to Westeros with dragons, and will probably hold the IT at some point, (I doubt she'll live to keep it for long, though.) Again, though she and Cersei have no history to make it interesting-Dany's thirst for vengeance would have been for Tywin not, Cersei. Sansa-Very different from the other three-she's the only one on this list who doesn't want to be Queen, and would prefer to stay the hell away from the South especially KL and CR...but her personal history with Cersei would make for the most drama-and poetic justice. What it comes down to, is that Arianne or Dany make more sense given the current politics and logistics...but from a literary standpoint, Sansa's the best choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caggo Corpsekiller Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Everyone knows that Princess Rhaenys is actually still alive, and she will be the younger, more beautiful woman that takes Cersei down... DUH! :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 She is born of incest, but she is not a bastard. And she is a legitimate descendant of Westerosi kings. Such things matter: Robert Baratheon was a usurper, but he had a real claim to the Iron Throne through his Targaryen grandmother. That is the reason why the rebels made him king. Dany can tell Westeros that they are ruled by Lannister bastards without any claim to the throne. Does she need to do that to take the throne? No, she doesn't. But she doesn't only want to take the throne, she wants to hold it. The case study of Robert Baratheon (and heirs) shows that it is much easier to win a throne than to hold it. Dany has learned that lesson in Meereen: She is Queen of Meereen, but she could not defeat the Harpy and her Sons. Robert Baratheon always feared Targaryen supporters, and a Targaryen ruler will likewise be threatened by Baratheon supporters. Even if she kills all Baratheons she can catch. It will be much simpler if she can prove that Tommen and Myrcella have no claim to the throne at all. Many Baratheon supporters will desert them, which leaves only Stannis (and Shireen) who is weakened by Baratheon in-fighting. (Of course Aegon may have taken care of Tommen and Myrcella by the time Dany reaches Westeros.) Good point However, I think Aegon will have taken care of Tommen and Myrcella before Dany reaches Westeros. :frown5: I really hope neither of them kill them considering what happened to Elia and her children (even considering the baby swap issue). It would be highly hypocritical and it would make them no better than their enemies/usurpers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Everyone knows that Princess Rhaenys is actually still alive, and she will be the younger, more beautiful woman that takes Cersei down... DUH! :P Of course she is. She is just hanging out with Elia, Ned, Robb, Grey Wind, Oberyn, Brandon and Rickard drinking hippocras and playing cyvasse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxkim Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Well assuming you're right Maxkim, then the only viable possibilities are Margaery, Arianne, Dany,and Sansa. Margaery, is the one Cersei fears, but the point is that Cersei, is usually wrong so it's unlikely. Also if Tommen dies, then Margaery won't be Queen anymore, will she? And she's going to have a LOT of problems in the future, once Robert Strong wins Cersei's freedom-her days may be numbered. Arianne-She could be declared Queen if she does marry fAegon. She won't be Queen for very long before it goes bad for her, but there will be a time period when she might be able to claim she's 'ursurped' Cersei's role. Also it's entirely possible Dorne will play a role in the deaths of Tommen and/or Myrcella. But no personal relationship with Cersei to build up the drama. Daenerys-Hates the Lannisters, is coming to Westeros with dragons, and will probably hold the IT at some point, (I doubt she'll live to keep it for long, though.) Again, though she and Cersei have no history to make it interesting-Dany's thirst for vengeance would have been for Tywin not, Cersei. Sansa-Very different from the other three-she's the only one on this list who doesn't want to be Queen, and would prefer to stay the hell away from the South especially KL and CR...but her personal history with Cersei would make for the most drama-and poetic justice. What it comes down to, is that Arianne or Dany make more sense given the current politics and logistics...but from a literary standpoint, Sansa's the best choice. I think it would be ironic that the one time Cersei is correct, she can't stop it anyway. I would love for the queen to actually be margaery, especially because it seems to me that there's more to her that means the eye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Of course she is. She is just hanging out with Elia, Ned, Robb, Grey Wind, Oberyn, Brandon and Rickard drinking hippocras and playing cyvasse. Hmm, I heard she resides in one of Tommen's cats. Apparently, Targs can warg too! :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caggo Corpsekiller Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Of course she is. She is just hanging out with Elia, Ned, Robb, Grey Wind, Oberyn, Brandon and Rickard drinking hippocras and playing cyvasse. Lyanna and Rhaegar are there too. Its one hell of a party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Hmm, I heard she resides in one of Tommen's cats. Apparently, Targs can warg too! :dunno: Jon who is realy Elia's son is a warg. So why not Rhaenys too? Lyanna and Rhaegar are there too. Its one hell of a party Those two are the clowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 This is highly unlikely but it would be ironic if it turned out to be Arya- a more mature Arya, who looks like her Aunt. "what harm could Lyanna Stark's ghost do either of us" Lyanna has pretty much been Cersei's bane in terms of her marriage with Robert and crush on Rhaegar- both men found Lyanna more desirable and beautiful than Cersei. She was their intended Queen, not Cersei. However, again this is highly unlikely as Arya still needs to mature more and I can't see her arc taking this direction. But still 'Lyanna Stark's ghost' (Arya) would have been great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I am quite sure that it is Sansa. This prophecy is heavily based on the fairy tale Snow White and while Sansa is a deconstruction of the classical princess trope her arc, ironically, has quite the fairy tale elements in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I think it would be ironic that the one time Cersei is correct, she can't stop it anyway. I would love for the queen to actually be margaery, especially because it seems to me that there's more to her that means the eye Well Maxkim, that would certainly add a new wrinkle to why Margaery is being fleshed out so much more on the show. She could go for a fourth marriage to either fAegon or Jon...or even Stannis if he becomes a widower. (Nobody's gonna mourn Selsye...) I am quite sure that it is Sansa. This prophecy is heavily based on the fairy tale Snow White and while Sansa is a deconstruction of the classical princess trope her arc, ironically, has quite the fairy tale elements in it. I am starting to tentatively lean that way myself, Queen Sansa Stark, for a variety of reasons. The original fairy tales were exceedingly dark indeed, and there does seem to be some foreshadowing for Sansa being Queen with Tyrion noting at Joffrey's wedding that Sansa would have been a very good queen and even better wife to Joffrey. Also as I said, while Sansa has the noble blood and proper temperament to be Queen Consort, she no longer wants the job-(and is indeed the only plausible candidate for Queen who doesn't want to be one) which is why it would doubly suit GRRM's sense of irony to later give it to her. But I underlined tentatively, because; A. In ASOIAF, almost nothing can be taken for granted-and for all we know GRRM might just kill Sansa off in the next book in that much rumored 'controversial' chapter-or have the IT go to someone completely unexpected-maybe even someone we haven't met, just for the hell of it. B. Right now I don't see exactly how Sansa would end up Queen-or go anywhere Cersei again. I'm not saying it couldn't happen but events would have to play out in a very wild and unexpected fashion indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog91 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 1. I think Cersei will be done before Margery, Dany or Sansa really get a chance to de-throne her.2. Myrcella could be crowned right away, and Dorne (or just the Sand Snakes) could march unopposed through Highgarden...since Highgarden is busy and and losing it's hold on KL. It could be Myrcella.3. Brienne is an interesting match for the prophecy, especially if she tempers Oathkeeper for a third time with Jamie. 3. Could "another" be a man? Aemon stated that the gender of "Prince" in the PTWP was used without justification, due to the original language. Maggy the Frog was not from Westeros... I was thinking as I was re-reading that the younger and more beautiful could be Tommen, Loras (I don't think he's done for) or Jon- two of them in a dual role as Valonquar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 . I think Cersei will be done before Margery, Dany or Sansa really get a chance to de-throne her. There is that whitedog. Its gonna take some serious plot armor on GRRM's part to keep her alive for very much longer. Which doesn't mean he won't-he's certainly protected Dany and LF too, to a certain extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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