New Queen.. Cersie's Prophecy..?

[The Crow's Third Eye]

man i will feel it when myrcella dies poor girl finally away from her family and happy with a boy she loses a ear and is disfigured. I do hope she still marries Tyrstane though, but wow is there anyone to save any of cersei's remaining kids.

I've recently said it on another thread but I dont think Myrcella will die. Gold will be their shrouds. Shroud can also mean to conceal, so Cersei only needs to think Myrcella is dead, or have Myrcella hidden from her. The gold could mean a number of things, but one possibility I have explored is the Golden Company. Due to Cersei's actions, Doran Martell is set to send Myrcella home by land. The most direct route to do that takes her riggt through the Stormlands, now largely controlled by team (f)Aegon. It would be very easy to take Myrcella hostage as she travels but I do not think she will die because:

Arianne will be there so things dont get out of hand for her. After all, she is to be Trystane's bride

This also opens it up for Myrcella to be the younger more beautiful person. And also Arianne.

[Faint]

I think it very likely at this point that the prophecy refers to Brienne of Tarth and Jaime Lannister.

My own feelings on the prophecy are as follows:

• The prophecy does not explicitly reference an actual queen or physical beauty; that is simply an incorrect reading and assumption, albeit, one the author wanted you to make in order to trick you into thinking it refers to candidates in this vein (i.e., Daenerys Targaryen, Sansa Stark, Margaery Tyrell, and Arianne Martell).
  
• The actual figures referenced in the prophecy, by the manner of how such prophecies function within this particular series, can never be someone Cersei actually suspects. Not only does the author want to surprise his audience, he wants to surprise Cersei. This is a continuing and unbroken pattern, as it has always been the case that proposed answers to mysteries that occur in text are incorrect (see Azor Ahai, Jon Snows mother, the Dragon has Three Heads, etc.). This eliminates Sansa Stark, Margaery Tyrell and Tyrion Lannister as possibilities.
  
• The threats portended in the prophecy have to come true exactly as Cersei suspects, since that is by definition what a self fulfilling prophecy is. She is afraid that she will only live long enough to see her three children perish before her, so that is precisely what will happen.
  
• There is a very good reason we had to know that Cersei is seconds older than Jaime, which is altogether irrelevant without the prophecy. Note, too, that we were only informed that Cersei is older than Jaime in the same book we learn about the prophecy, undoubtedly because the whole thing was a much later invention in the writing of the series.
  
• There is also plenty of good foreshadowing. My personal favorite:

"He took Raventree and accepted Lord Blackwoods surrender," said her uncle, "but on his way back to Riverrun he left his tail and went off with a woman."

"A woman?" Cersei stared at him, uncomprehending. "What woman? Why? Where did they go?"

"No one knows. Weve had no further word of him. The woman may have been the Evenstars daughter, Lady Brienne."

Her. The queen remembered the Maid of Tarth, a huge, ugly, shambling thing who dressed in mans mail. Jaime would never abandon me for such a creature. My raven never reached him, elsewise he would have come.

[First of Her Name]

I would discount Jeyne Westerling because she isn't supposed to be that pretty.

I would like to open up the possibility that it is Val. She could partner up with Jon Starg and become some sort of warrior queen. This would play on the ambiguity in the prophecy, since there is ambiguity as to whether Val is a princess. It would also explain why her beauty is so heavily emphasized.

Just a thought. I'm not totally sold on it, but it occurred to me while I was reading some other thing about what is going to happen when Jon wakes up. There seems to be a strong contingent supporting the idea that he and Val will get together, which would make Val a younger and more beautiful (arguably) queen.

I think Daenerys is too obvious. Not to Cersei, obviously, but to the reader.

[Pod The Rod]

I vote Arya. Just because.

[chrisdaw]

Sansa. But first Cersei will think it's Arianne when she arrives on Aegon's arm.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

my take..

Arianne will be (f)Aegon´s queen..

and i think the sand snakes will have Queen Myrcella killed.. Therefore, arianne will be responsable for casting Cersei down.

In her grief and madness she will atempt to burn Kings Landing with wildfire, Aerys style, so that (f)Aegon and arianne can be king and queen of the ashes..

The queen´s Hand, Jaime, will kill Cersei with the king´s hand necklace... dying shortly after.. probably with the fire.

At least the red keep will be gone.. probably the whole city.

[Winnief]

I'm increasingly of the opinion that the younger more beautiful Queen is Sansa.

The reason for that is because the latest casting news, indicates that yep the show is including Maggy and the prophecy but they haven't cast Arianne and I considered her a long shot to begin with.

So that leaves three big contenders Dany, Margaery, and Sansa, and my money's on third and here's why.

I disqualify Margaery for the simple reason that she's the one Cersei suspects-and Cersei always gets these things wrong. Plus, I suspect Margaery won't survive much longer, :crying: (I'll miss her.)

Daenerys obviously is another good candidate and if/when she gets to Westeros she'll be in a position to stomp all over Cersei-but there's no personal connection between Dany and Cersei. Which doesn't mean it won't happen, but it wouldn't have much dramatic impact especially given how long it's taking Dany to get to Westeros.

Now reading the prophecy carefully states the younger and more beautiful Queen has to be playing some direct role in taking away all that she loves-now first and foremost Cersei loves her children. Now in the books, there were three women involved in the death of Cersei's eldest child-Olenna Tyrell, Margaery, and Sansa, (the third unwittingly but still.) On the show however, they make a point that Margaery wasn't in on the murder plot at all. I think they did that deliberately so as not to muddy the waters as to whether Margaery had helped take away what Cersei held dear. Now Sansawhile innocent of any knowledge of the affair she did supply the poison-so in a sense Sansa has already played a role in taking away something Cersei loves.

Then Brienne takes off in pursuit of Sansa-and Brienne later lures Jaime away from the Lannister camp, on the pretext of finding Sansa so once more Sansa has "If unknowingly" played a role in taking away something Cersei cares about. In fact, in Season Five I bet they'll have Jaime choosing directly between responding to Cersei's letter and going with Brienne to find Sansa, (more compact and dramatic that way.)

And really of all the possible candidates for Younger and More Beautiful Queen, Sansa is by far the one with the most interesting and dramatic backstory with Cersei-the one who would have the most emotional impact-not to mention the delicious irony in that she's the one Cersei has consistently underestimated from day one, writing her off as a stupid, silly, girl.

Now the obvious reasons against Sansa are, I'm sure you're thinking, "How would Sansa rise to any position of power? And how could she possibly have any effect on future events that will continue to make things go badly for Cersei?" I admit its not clear yet, but I suspect Martin has big, BIG plans for Sansa in the next two books, (the fact they're racing through her storyarc so quickly on the show is a pretty strong indication they KNOW they have a lot more stuff to do with her,) and that many things will be happening with her that could (whether Sansa intends them or not,) have a Butterfly effect on Cersei and her fortunes. That's my theory anyway, and I am panting for Season Five or TWOW, (whichever comes first,) to see if there are any signs I'm right.

[Ceiteach]

I'm quite sure it's Dany. If I remember the prophecy correctly, it refers to a woman more beautiful than her. As Cersei is supposedly the most beautiful woman in all of Westeros, and Dany's extreme beauty has been alluded to many times, I think she fits the bill.

[Winnief]

I'm quite sure it's Dany. If I remember the prophecy correctly, it refers to a woman more beautiful than her. As Cersei is supposedly the most beautiful woman in all of Westeros, and Dany's extreme beauty has been alluded to many times, I think she fits the bill.

I can see the reasoning, (Dany is reputed to be the greatest beauty in all of Planetos after all,)...but the books do suggest that Sansa is growing into quite a beauty herself-she's already believed to have outstripped Cat.

Cersei was arguably the greatest beauty in Westeros-but that was when Sansa was still a child. It could be that out Cersei's grasp, copper haired blue eyed Sansa comes to outshine even her.

I freely concede that, Dany might seem like the best candidate for the younger more beautiful Queen in terms of sheer logistics-but I just feel Sansa makes more narrative sense.

[Batbob45]

I just going with Shireen for the fact that Cersei had a hand in the rumor and the one princess she doesn't find a threat is the one who become queen.

[HairGrowsBack]

I tend to agree with Faint's take on it (ie: it's Brienne).

However if it has to be simpler than that, Sansa would make the most sense. I feel like it has to be personal, and Sansa sure has some history with Cersei.

[Petyr Patter]

@Winnie.

I know you've read my compilation thread, but just incase anyone else hasn't, here is a link to the definitive YMBQ thread: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/93920-compiling-the-younger-more-beautiful-queens/ . The important thing to realize is a lot of characters could be fulfill the prophecy, even if they aren't the most obvious. Because the most obvious is Margaery and only "it can't be that obvious" means she isn't the frontrunner.

Though I have to get to Church in just a moment, I will say you shouldn't overlook Myrcella. Unlike Sansa, she has a pretty straight path to becoming queen, specifically the Queen on the Iron Throne which is far nearer and dearer to Cersei then a hypothetical Queen in the North. Plus, it is not entirely clear what Cersei "holds dear."

[Batbob45]

It would be Irony if the Shireen was the queen because Cersei was known for her beauty when she became queen but was a foul person underneath and Shireen who people consider not pretty because of her genes and her disfigured face but Shireen has a good heart. .

[chrisdaw]

Now the obvious reasons against Sansa are, I'm sure you're thinking, "How would Sansa rise to any position of power? And how could she possibly have any effect on future events that will continue to make things go badly for Cersei?" I admit its not clear yet.

Great council elects her and Tyrion. Brings down Cersei when she's trialled for killing Joff and her champions defeat and reveal a Robert Strong for a demon.