How would you handle the Sons of the Harpy-situation?

[SeanF]

Slaughter all of the Meereeni masters and their family, then destroy the pyramids, put the city on fire and leave.

Mass extermination is certainly an option. But, I don't think it's what the O/P was looking for. And, it would certainly wouldn't bode well for anyone that Dany conquered in the future. In fact, her opponents would probably all fight to the bitter end.

[SeanF]

Yea Dany gave specific instructions to her soldiers which were carried out to the T. You can't compare that to Tywin giving his men free reign over the city.

The Sack of Meereen is much more like the Sack of Kings Landing, although the crucial difference (in the eyes of Dany and contemporaries) would be that that Meereen offered resistance and was taken by storm, whereas Kings Landing offered no resistance, except for the Red Keep.

[Cz99]

Burn it down. Burn it all down to the ground.

[Brightstar_]

Except that it was different. Astapor saw no rapes, no babies heads being smashed against walls, etc.

Only due to the fact that Dany's army happened to consist of eunuchs at the time, and there was no royal family with babies to be removed.

[Brightstar_]

It's interesting to see how many people here opt for just sheer mass murder and their only justification is " well, all slaver bay people are bad".

Sure they are slavers, but that is mostly because they were raised and indoctrinated into the slavery system, they hardly even think about it. Is it moral to completely exterminate people because their crimes are basically built on ignorance, and them not going against their own culture?

I suppose you could look at it as " for the greater good", killing all slavers is the means to and end : stopping slavery permanently. But that's a difficult question IMO.

[shadow282]

Except that it was different. Astapor saw no rapes, no babies heads being smashed against walls, etc.

It's actually pretty likely that there were plenty of rapes. Remember, they were freeing every slave they saw. It's incredibly unrealistic to think that not a single slave took out their years of enslavement out on the masters in pretty horrible ways.

Even in the highly unlikely case that there weren't any, Astapor is still arguably worse. She just killed every non-slave over 13 while Tywin's attack wasn't nearly as widespread.

[shadow282]

It's interesting to see how many people here opt for just sheer mass murder and their only justification is " well, all slaver bay people are bad".

Exactly. People seem to forget that most cultures have at some point had a form of slavery. Including YOUR ancestors. If someone had gone all Dany on them, you wouldn't exist.

Of course, this only applies if you have any ancestors who were American, European, Chinese, Japanese, Celtic, Mongolian, Indian, Native American, Aztecs, Mayas, Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Russian, ect. Essentially everywhere but Africa(as far as I can remember). So a vast, vast, vast majority of the world.

[Gibzit]

Get the hell out of Mereen

[Ser Brandon Badwater]

I`d handle it the same way as Dany and stick by my principles, I`d also use a few people as bait to draw them out with only Selmy and a few trusted unsullied knowing my plan

[Hodor the Articulate]

Dragons need to stop feeding on sheep, Slavers are fat and juicy. Win, win.

Seriously though, we need to stop with all the real-world comparisons. Or, at least, not forget the motivations and personalities of the characters involved.

[SeanF]

Also most of the crimes during the sack were carried about by slaves that rose up against their masters, not Dany's soldiers.

That explains part of it. But the sellswords and "starving hordes" from Astapor and Yunkai did their share of rape and pillage.

[shadow282]

Actually Africa had slaves too. To be fair though, many of the examples you mentioned were a lot less brutal than slavery in Essos seems to be. I still don't think destroying the entire city is the answer though.

Couldn't think of any examples offhand, but that really just makes my point even further. And sure, some of it is less brutal but some of it was definitely much more brutal.

[Uncia]

As Dany, i'd opt for genocidal solution... but that's just me.
Kill all the adult males of the nobility.

Of course, she shoot herself in the foot by removing the slavery option,
but considering that slaves have NO RIGHTS in GRRM's world,
it seems like a moral imperative to abolish slavery there,
or else she wouldn't be a hero.

[Brightstar_]

As Dany, i'd opt for genocidal solution... but that's just me.

Kill all the adult males of the nobility.

Of course, she shoot herself in the foot by removing the slavery option,

but considering that slaves have NO RIGHTS in GRRM's world,

it seems like a moral imperative to abolish slavery there,

or else she wouldn't be a hero.

I think slaves have no right ever per definition of the word "slave".

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Even in the highly unlikely case that there weren't any, Astapor is still arguably worse. She just killed every non-slave over 13 while Tywin's attack wasn't nearly as widespread.

I actually think what happened to Astapor is worse than Meereen. Nearly every person left in the city when she moved on is now either dead, diseased, starving, re-enslaved, etc. And those were freed people. You can't just say, "Well they got what was coming to them." That is what happened to the freed people who stayed in the city after she took the Unsullied (which, incidentally, had been the city's major source of defense).

Seriously though, we need to stop with all the real-world comparisons. Or, at least, not forget the motivations and personalities of the characters involved.

Something foul done with good motivations is still something foul. I'm sure it's comforting to the mass dead of Astapor that Dany left their city completely undefended with the best of intentions.

[Ser Creighton]

You know head canon theories don't work very well, when you move away from the content of the book and just make stuff up it does not change what is in the books.

Telling yourself you have an idea that would solve this or that will never happen in the books. You can't prove it would work, and the story is the story. The scenerio is set up to be what it is not what anyone else wants it to be. Well if Dany had left Unsullied in Astapor then it would be fine? But the author wants it destroyed so he sends such and such to make sure that happens.

Hindsight, universal perspective, a knowledge of what the author likes to do, and head canon are not going to change the story. It doesn't matter how anyone here would do something different the author did not want it done that way.

Starks and Lannisters what wouold you do to prevent the war? The answer is there is nothing that could be done. People start takinig ideas like this and soon enough they are treating head canon like text evidence and fact. Personally I don't get it, you might as well say I would use my god powers to change the world and fix everything, people just have to do it my way and for every action I take there can be no reaction, it just has to be how I want it.

[shadow282]

I can think of some that were as brutal. The way Africans were treated during the trans-Atlantic slave trade was pretty bad due to the industrialized nature of flesh for money, and slavery during the late Roman Republic was pretty brutal. I cannot think of any slavery institution worse than what we see in Essos though, and the vast majority have been much more humane.

Maybe I'm just forgetting, but besides the Unsullied slavery seems about as bad as in the real world. What is particularly brutal about it?

[Brightstar_]

You know head canon theories don't work very well, when you move away from the content of the book and just make stuff up it does not change what is in the books.

Telling yourself you have an idea that would solve this or that will never happen in the books. You can't prove it would work, and the story is the story. The scenerio is set up to be what it is not what anyone else wants it to be. Well if Dany had left Unsullied in Astapor then it would be fine? But the author wants it destroyed so he sends such and such to make sure that happens.

Hindsight, universal perspective, a knowledge of what the author likes to do, and head canon are not going to change the story. It doesn't matter how anyone here would do something different the author did not want it done that way.

Starks and Lannisters what wouold you do to prevent the war? The answer is there is nothing that could be done. People start takinig ideas like this and soon enough they are treating head canon like text evidence and fact. Personally I don't get it, you might as well say I would use my god powers to change the world and fix everything, people just have to do it my way and for every action I take there can be no reaction, it just has to be how I want it.

It's just fun to theorize, and always answering everything with "it's because GRRM wanted it to" kind of makes the story boring IMO

[Uncia]

I think slaves have no right ever per definition of the word "slave".

Not true.

Slaves have had a variety of rights in different cultures...

Vikings thralls had a few rights rights...buying their own freedom for example.
Jewish slavery had some codes, according to : http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/119688-religion-v-utopianism-fundamentalism-apothesis/#entry6402605
Muslim slavery has many laws as well :
- slaves have to be fed and clothed the same as the masters.
- they eat with the masters too.
- they cannot be beaten (punishment for the master is to free the slave) or raped, or killed.
- if a slave has a child with a master, she cannot be sold, is freed after the death of the master. the children of a free man are always free, have the name of their father, inherit etc.

So yes, in the real world christian version of slavery, or in Essos, "slaves have no rights at all", BUT that is not some universal truth.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

It's just fun to theorize, and always answering everything with "it's because GRRM wanted it to" kind of makes the story boring IMO

Agreed. I also don't think hindsight is necessary to guess that taking away a vulnerable city's entire defenses might not end up working out all that well.