How would you handle the Sons of the Harpy-situation?

[Red Raven]

They had every reason to doubt it. Drogon was never chained up, he was free and eating livestock right from the start and it didn't take him long to scorch a child. If she had tried a "my dragons will protect our city" speech the people would have no reason to believe her because they already knew it was a lie.

The city was besieged by the Yunkai'i and that would have reinforced the dragons were wild and not under her control.

It's a dumb bluff to make because it wouldn't be long before she'd be forced to prove it (and fail).

[Suzanna Stormborn]

You stated that because the SotH don't care about the hostages, that these hostages might be executed for their actions, that these hostage relatives, that would make the SotH monsters. Robb was in the same position when he marched South, with his dad and sister as Joffrey's hostages, they could be killed as response to his actions. Does this makes Robb a monster?

That's a loaded question. But his fathers head did get cut off..... Cersei/Joffrey weren't bluffing and Dany was. I'm glad she isn't as bad as them.

[Djinn]

That's a loaded question. But his fathers head did get cut off..... Cersei/Joffrey weren't bluffing and Dany was. I'm glad she isn't as bad as them.

Yes, but Ned was executed for his actions against Joffrey, not as a response to Robb. The thing is that you posted that if Daenerys executed the hostages that would be on the SotH, and that i would have to disagree, and aparently you do as well. Either the responsability is on the person that holds/kills the hostages or it isn't. It shows that Daenerys is aware that killing these hostages would make her the monster, not the SotH.

Ultemately, hostage taking is a political tool of a dishonorable nature. It turns anyone envolved in it either a liar or a monster. Daenerys choose to be a liar rather then a monster(in this matter).

[PrimeRhaegar]

I can't believe how many posters are suggesting fire and blood as the solution. Apple Martini has explained in detail why that would also be bad policy, but it's frankly a little frightening to me that so many people on here think violence is the solution to all problems.

in this type of setting it is violence that people respond to. Tywin said it best when they defy you you give them fire and sword and pardon the necessary one. I am paraphrasing, but that is the gist of it. She doesn't have to be meagor, but she hand to be firm.

[Ser Creighton]

Killing leaders of terrorist organizations just doesn´t work to disintegrate their factions in asymmetric warfare.

Neither will executing hostages. Cruelty will probably fuel more hatred..

The solution is exactly what dany did, giving the nobles of Old Meereen a place at the table. Making sure they have some power in new meereen.

There is of course another solution, but it depends on whether she is up to some Human rights crimes. Genocidal policy or ethnic cleansing (expelling everyone from the city)

Wow someone with a clue. Though killing the masters would not be considered genocide. Astapor, Meereen, New Ghis, and Yunkai are all Ghiscari. Killing off the masters would not be close to genocide as people always forget there are a lot more poor Ghiscari who were enslaved than there are masters.

Your right about killing off the leaders it doesn't work. None of what is suggested works, most of it just fuels the fire. Though I tend to find the Harpy killings a bit unrealistic. They could go house to house but that again only fuels the fire. Dany leaving is only going to lead to the slaughter god knows how many former slaves.

What has never made sense to me is why Yunkai is so interested in freeing Astapor and Meereen. By all rights as the only slaver city, they now have a monopoly. The same for the Dothraki and Quarth. The Dothraki need a place to sell slaves so go to Yunkai and Quarth needs a place to by slaves so go to Yunkai. Plot feels a bit forced unless there is some other reason not being stated.

I tend to doubt the Green Grace is the actual leader, given the Ghiscari biased towards women, though she is probably part of it and it's probably made up of multiple big slaver houses.

Dany's best bet would be to seize the Gold of the Masters, it becomes a lot harder to fund to operations when you don't have any funds. Though how she could possibly go about finding all the wealth and seizing it is beyond me. The peaceful approach is the best approach and it did put a bandaid on the killings. But the truth is you are never going to solve all the problems, the world, any world is not a Utopia.

You know it was said by Xaro that Meereen was peaceful, rich and bloodless before Dany. That it was built on the backs of slaves. Most of that is bullshit, coming from a bullshit artist. Meereen was not built on backs, it was built on the blood of slaves. They are the largest supporter of the slave trade, funding kidnaping. And when people are kidnaped they don't tend to go quietly, the raiders destroy entire villages killing and raping. In Meereen not everyone wanted to enter the fighting pits, some did, some were trained and conditioned for it. But we know others with no skill were thrown in to the pits for the amusement of the Masters. Raping and murdering slaves isn't even an after thought to the slavers as they don't view them as people. The peace in the slaver cities was by and large from the blood of slaves. Some slaves are treated like a favorite pet for a time, others not so much. It's a bad, bad place, but I don't think anything can be done about it. It's not enough for Dany to want to free them and for the slaves to want to be free. You need the support of other leaders and the other leaders happen to be slavers. So it's all kinds of screwed up.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Yes, but Ned was executed for his actions against Joffrey, not as a response to Robb. The thing is that you posted that if Daenerys executed the hostages that would be on the SotH, and that i would have to disagree, and aparently you do as well. Either the responsability is on the person that holds/kills the hostages or it isn't. It shows that Daenerys is aware that killing these hostages would make her the monster, not the SotH.

Ultemately, hostage taking is a political tool of a dishonorable nature. It turns anyone envolved in it either a liar or a monster. Daenerys choose to be a liar rather then a monster(in this matter).

I think the situations are different. I cant remember everything perfectly, but Dany took the hostages and said we will kill these children, if the killings don't stop. Joffrey didnt say to Robb, 'I will kill your father if you don't stop', so Robb is not the same as tSotH. They knew Dany had their children and threatened to kill them. If anything Robb and everyone, even Cersei really didn't think Ned would get executed. execution for Ned wasn't ever really on the table til Joffrey ordered it out of nowhere. So these situations are different. But you are right, taking hostages is of dishonorable nature, and all I was saying is that Dany thought the threat of having the children would be enough to stop tSotH, but continuing to kill random freedmen was more important to them than their children that Dany had.

[cade]

Reading most of this thread, you'd never know that Dany actually used diplomacy to stop the Harpy attacks.

I can't believe how many posters are suggesting fire and blood as the solution. Apple Martini has explained in detail why that would also be bad policy, but it's frankly a little frightening to me that so many people on here think violence is the solution to all problems.

This is the trend in every fandom I've observed. Even a lot of Star Trek fans criticize Picard for being too diplomatic. He wasn't "badass" enough. For all the criticism that Dany (rightfully) gets here for allowing torture in a medieval world, use of torture by ostensible protagonists in fiction, even in modern settings, is by no means rare. Hollywood is overall the world's biggest propagandist for torture, and general audiences don't mind one bit. Threads like this tell us why.

Caring more about slaves in a foreign land than a dictatorship in the blessed Westeros, locking away dragons for public safety, compromising with enemies to achieve peace - these aren't things you do if you want to be popular these days.

[Lord Voldemort's Toes]

Why wouldn't killing the nobles work? The attacks aren't ideological. It's not the ASOIF version of Al Quaida. The source of them is so clear in motivation that there is no doubt who is responsible and what their goal is.

They should have been killed in the first place. If they're not going to respect the terms of peace, they must be killed or they will not stop.

And much good her attempts at "diplomacy" did. She had to compromise in marriage and in regards to the fighting pits, and they wanted to try and kill her anyway. They basically tried to pull the reverse of what Daario told Dany to do.

[Robb_Starkers]

I would have stayed in Astapor

[barmyscouser]

It is interesting that Dany's 2 most powerful weapons are useless in this struggle. Dragons would burn the freedman alongside his former slaver. The Unsullied could exterminate the ruling class of Meereen, Or not.

But if she wants to rule the ruling class she'll have to be smart about it.

[Khal BlackfyreO]

I concur, but there in lies the question how can you achieve peace when their only goal would seem to be removing Dany from power? What concessions without compromising everything she believes in. The brutal destruction of some of the leading houses, likely houses that the harpies have rallied around could shatter the morale of the movement or cause enough fear for them to relent. If the middle class are carrying out the orders of the upper nobles then the loss of that trickle down command could send them into disarray, other leading houses may retract support for the movement through fear etc or alternatively as you say it may strengthen their resolve.

However I just don't really see any economic or political concessions that Dany can make without reintroducing slavery proper that would satiate the Sons enough to make them halt the violence.

She doesn´t have to convert the Sons to her cause, she has to consolidate her power and position with her loyalists and convince those in the middle ground to come to her cause. When they are convinced that Dany can offer them more than the Sons, the problem will take care of itself, with the Sons becoming more and more ostracized in Meereen. People will rat them out, go against them in private and public, and they will slowly disappear, leave (Astapor sounds nice), or have no choice but be converted.

[Khal BlackfyreO]

One could say that without Maegor´s brutality, Jaehaerys would never be able to reach peace the way he did. If you think about it, Jaehaerys never compromised anything. He gave nothing to the faith, only pardons. If the Faith agreed to lose all their political power, and demilitarize, it’s because they were already beaten.

I think Maegor strategy of offering bounties to local lords/knights was a smart way to outsource the war to more able forces. At the same time aligned the interests of the Iron throne with those of local lords that most likely felt threatened by the faith militant.

Did they have some role of imparting justice, the way they are now judging the queens?

If Maegor's hard power alone had been enough to defeat the Faith, they would have already been a non-factor when Jaehaerys showed up.

Absolutely.. Asymetric warfare requires policy mix. That i think is quite clear.

But again, its not just about diplomacy and finding a middle ground. At least not in the case of Jaehaerys that gave them nothing. just pardons.

Ending targaryen polygamy? they probably didn´t even care. What they did care about was the political power that comes with having an army of religious fanatics.. And they lost that.

Maegor´s brutality and Jaehaerys diplomacy both have some role to play.. of course only jaehaerys is remembered..

HA! They pulled a Good cop/Bad cop!!!!

[LittleDove]

Perhaps take a leaf from Tyrion's book....hatch a couple of eggs, see what color the chick is (pun intended). Store as much food as possible, and say rations will be only given out as long as the Brazen Beasts return safely after each night patrol. That should stop anything on the grassroots level, once everyone gets hungry enough. For the higher-ups, a fancy Dracarys dinner should do.

[tydides]

I would never have gotten into the situation. However, this is how I would do it if I had to. Make threats, kill off children if that is what it means. Kill Hizdahr publicly to set an example. I would not kill the Green Grace, but I would take her into custody and not allow her to perform any religious rites. She is a prisoner. I would make her mine, and there wouldn't be opposition. Eventually, there would be a curfew, then random checks of houses, and prohibition on adequate weapons. Finally, I will get congress to allow drone strikes, and coordinately kill of any aggressors with *minimum* civilian casualties.

[Mithras]

8. Guerrilla attacks cannot be stopped through conventional means. It's a PR battle. So I would have to make the PR case, through propaganda, fair laws, economic development, etc., that my government is superior to the insurrectionists' agenda.

We have an in-universe example of this approach. Arthur Dayne solved the Kingswood Brotherhood problem with exactly the same approach.

[OmnomnomPomelo]

Slaughter all of the Meereeni masters and their family, then destroy the pyramids, put the city on fire and leave.

[Waters Gate]

I followed the link to this thread through another active thread. Then I read the posts in this thread and saw that nobody said what I wanted to say.

Ok. I was just asking. It is the sort of thing i guess tto many would appear as "thread necromancy", which can be a form of trolling and can be against the forum rules depending on the forum, but that doesn't mean that you had those intentions nessecarily.

[Mithras]

Slaughter all of the Meereeni masters and their family, then destroy the pyramids, put the city on fire and leave.

That is what Tywin would have done and that is only if the Meereenese didnot hear the song the Rains of Castamere before.

Dany fans cheer for the liberation of Astapor but when we point that it is technically no different than Tywin's sack of KL, consistency flies away. It is amusing.

[OmnomnomPomelo]

That is what Tywin would have done and that is only if the Meereenese didnot hear the song the Rains of Castamere before.

Dany fans cheer for the liberation of Astapor but when we point that it is technically no different than Tywin's sack of KL, consistency flies away. It is amusing.

Yes.

You can't change the people of Slaver's Bay no matter what. The nobles call themselves as great, good and wise masters, but all they do is enslave other people thus oppress and humiliate them. They did this for thousands of years, and will never stop it. And if they fail then their former slaves take their places (like Cleon the butcher king). So imho Slaver's Bay has to be destroyed. So I'd do as I said. Then the former slaves can join me or do what they want.

[Nictarion]

Dany fans cheer for the liberation of Astapor but when we point that it is technically no different than Tywin's sack of KL, consistency flies away. It is amusing.

Except that it was different. Astapor saw no rapes, no babies heads being smashed against walls, etc.