Winnief Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 So apparently Varys has helped start this incredibly brutal, bloody, destructive civil war all in the name of putting his carefully groomed 'perfect prince' on the throne. :bang: I have to say this strikes me as being a very dubious social experiment and I doubt Varys is going to like the results he gets. First of all Aegon for all his Targaryen appearance, (maybe he's a Blackfyre or maybe the real deal-I don't know and I'm not sure it matters) and specialized education isn't actually a political or military genius. He's hot headed, a poor loser, has questionable taste in friends (as Griff noted), and despite what Varys might have been hoping has some deluded notions of entitlement. Note his apparently genuine surprise and consternation when Tyrion pointed out, that the first Targaryen heir in centuries to have freaking dragons, (and her own army she got herself,) might not necessarily want to wed him and give him all her forces in support. Someone wasn't thinking clearly...and he's not a great Cyvasse player which clearly foreshadows that he's lacking in the Game. I think when he actually meets Aegon, Varys is going to be more than a little disappointed... Secondly, Aegon, isn't long for this world. It might be the greyscale, it might be the IB, but most likely of all is that it will be Dany. Something Varys really hasn't factored into all this, is what it means to have a Targaryen princess, (who unlike Aegon has bona fides that no one denies,) who really does have dragons and an army come into the picture-that it really could be another Dance of the Dragons, which Aegon can't win. Varys has always seen Daenerys as being a useful distraction to draw focus away from Aegon-and possibly later on even an ally, but what he hasn't seemed to consider is that Dany could be Aegon's rival-and quite possibly the most dangerous one at that. Thirdly, there are The Others. That's what it always comes down to isn't it? The Others. Varys for all his knowledge and incredible cunning is completely blind to the storm that's coming. I challenge him to figure out how to deal with that problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 For Aegon to be a real contender, he needs a Dragon. Although nothing is beyond GRRM's ability, I don't see how he gets one. He's not actively trying to, he's not even sending emissaries or spies to Mereen that we know of. Without Dragons he wouldnt seem to stand a chance against her... But we don't know how Dany is coming to Westeros, in what state, and with what forces. She might be hogtied in Victarion's cargo hold for all we know. She may go straight to the wall to fight Others, or be I pursuit of a lost dragon. Aegon seems like a chess piece for Martin to cause trouble with.. But then, he's pretty much the master at unexpected plot twists. Varys... We don't know the whole story there. I'm reserving judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I still think that Varys might back Dany ahead of Aegon in the right circumstances. We don't actually know how loyal Varys is to Aegon (we've never even seen them together). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I think before the end, the ones that most people consider the two top players in Varys and Littlefinger will have the rug pulled out from under them in extremely dramatic fashion, and I agree that Varys over estimating Aegon will play a large part of that for him. Just makes me feel kinda sorry for Griff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spear of Dorne Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I get a feeling that if Aegon looks to be losing Varys will sneak out of Westeros to the Free Cities and never be seen by anyone from the 7 Kingdoms again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The motivations of Varys have got to be one of the biggest mysteries. Littlefinger wants power and Sansa and money. Varys... I think his motivations will be an important factor in the conclusion. It's hard to understand his actions towards Dany, and there are other questions about his actions that aren't fully explained by any one theory... Although his being either the brother of Aegon's mother / Illyrio's former slave mistress whom he loved so much is my favorite Varys theory. That or a Blackfyre thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 But the Blackfyre thing doesn't jibe with raising Aegon to think he's Rhaegar's son now does it? If Aegon is fake, I don't think he's aware. He thinks himself Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'd like to think that Varys has, in fact, considered that Dany could be Aegon's rival and a very dangerous foe. He's been playing all these high lords for years and years and for him to not consider something like that would be kind of ridiculous IMO. I'm sure he has some plan for himself in place barring an Aegon disaster. Seeing what Varys does if Aegon dies or fails is one of the most intriguing things to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'd like to think that Varys has, in fact, considered that Dany could be Aegon's rival and a very dangerous foe. He's been playing all these high lords for years and years and for him to not consider something like that would be kind of ridiculous IMO. I'm sure he has some plan for himself in place barring an Aegon disaster. Seeing what Varys does if Aegon dies or fails is one of the most intriguing things to me. Won't he just back Dany? I think he might back Dany over Aegon anyway, depending on who has the better chance of winning the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ours if the Fury Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think Vary's is smarter then that, even if he has thrown in with Aegon, he has plenty of chances to throw him in and jump, he is too well prepared to be caught off guard. And i think Dany may actually sort things out with Aegon and they can co-rule or even combine their armies… just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hulboy Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 A prologue with varys would be nice .i think varys is stuck with aegon.danearys will see aegon as a blackfrye. Varys will probably have a plan b c d ..I don't think varys knows about Jon .when he finds out about Jon's parentage he will be shocked that he didn't know about Jon..I think greyscale may spread in south causing lots death .segon will die or lose varys support to Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lady Leela Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 First of all Aegon for all his Targaryen appearance, (maybe he's a Blackfyre or maybe the real deal-I don't know and I'm not sure it matters) and specialized education isn't actually a political or military genius. He's hot headed, a poor loser, has questionable taste in friends (as Griff noted), and despite what Varys might have been hoping has some deluded notions of entitlement. I was seriously shocked when I found out Aegon is supposed to be, like, 18. The way he acts, I swear I thought he was like 8. That said, Varys is smart enough not to put all his eggs in one basket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fresh PtwP Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 So apparently Varys has helped start this incredibly brutal, bloody, destructive civil war all in the name of putting his carefully groomed 'perfect prince' on the throne. :bang: I have to say this strikes me as being a very dubious social experiment and I doubt Varys is going to like the results he gets. First of all Aegon for all his Targaryen appearance, (maybe he's a Blackfyre or maybe the real deal-I don't know and I'm not sure it matters) and specialized education isn't actually a political or military genius. He's hot headed, a poor loser, has questionable taste in friends (as Griff noted), and despite what Varys might have been hoping has some deluded notions of entitlement. Note his apparently genuine surprise and consternation when Tyrion pointed out, that the first Targaryen heir in centuries to have freaking dragons, (and her own army she got herself,) might not necessarily want to wed him and give him all her forces in support. Someone wasn't thinking clearly...and he's not a great Cyvasse player which clearly foreshadows that he's lacking in the Game. I think when he actually meets Aegon, Varys is going to be more than a little disappointed... Secondly, Aegon, isn't long for this world. It might be the greyscale, it might be the IB, but most likely of all is that it will be Dany. Something Varys really hasn't factored into all this, is what it means to have a Targaryen princess, (who unlike Aegon has bona fides that no one denies,) who really does have dragons and an army come into the picture-that it really could be another Dance of the Dragons, which Aegon can't win. Varys has always seen Daenerys as being a useful distraction to draw focus away from Aegon-and possibly later on even an ally, but what he hasn't seemed to consider is that Dany could be Aegon's rival-and quite possibly the most dangerous one at that. Thirdly, there are The Others. That's what it always comes down to isn't it? The Others. Varys for all his knowledge and incredible cunning is completely blind to the storm that's coming. I challenge him to figure out how to deal with that problem... Wow you don't like the kid. Well you are entitled to your opinion but:1. Tyrion says he is good at cyvasse. I don't know how losing to a great player makes you not good.2. Sore loser? Aegon IS a king. Seriously ask yourself what any king since AGoT would've done if "Hugo Hill" ran his mouth off that. Joffery or Dany or Stannis would've killed him...3. JonCon questions his choice of KG not of friends. JonCon thinks KG should be reserved for elite knights. Aegon believes loyalty should be top priority. Personally I think Aegon is right4. Hotheaded...ya. I find it interesting that Joff (Robert's "son") was thought of as Aerys 2.0. Now we have Aegon (Rhaegar's "son") demanding to lead assualts and sounding like Robert 2.5. Dany's dragons aren't huge yet and still very killable. Plot gods aside Aegon has a really good chance of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagwell Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 5. Dany's dragons aren't huge yet and still very killable. Plot gods aside Aegon has a really good chance of winning. A certain crispy and plague-ridden place ending in -por might disagree with you there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I agree that we shouldn't criticise Aegon for his behaviour on the boat, Having a little strop while playing Cyvasse doesn't really mean anything. Everything he does after he leaves Tyrion indicates that he'll be quite a good leader/warrior/king. Everything's set up perfectly for Aegon - as long as he gets Dorne on side then it's hard to see how he won't win the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well perhaps I am being too harsh on him considering his youth...but still I don't think Aegon was worth the hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetitansbastard Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think leading the siege at Storms End, which Varys has no idea about, might not go so well for Aegon. There seems to be a lot of hype about that particular stronghold...gotta be a reason for it, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Won't he just back Dany? I think he might back Dany over Aegon anyway, depending on who has the better chance of winning the throne.Yeah, it probably is his backup plan but if he or Illyrio are in fact related to Aegon then they would obviously feel the need for some kind of vengeance. They've been planning the Aegon arrival for a long time so I think just simply backing Dany as a backup plan would not be the end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jaime Lannister Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Love the idea of Varys thinking, shit this is what I have been doing all this work for? Damn.... The motivations of Varys have got to be one of the biggest mysteries. Littlefinger wants power and Sansa and money. Varys... I think his motivations will be an important factor in the conclusion. It's hard to understand his actions towards Dany, and there are other questions about his actions that aren't fully explained by any one theory... Although his being either the brother of Aegon's mother / Illyrio's former slave mistress whom he loved so much is my favorite Varys theory. That or a Blackfyre thing.Although, this is a great point. We just don't know what his motivation really is. I have always hoped that Varys and Illyrio are simply just incredible thieves, attempting to steal the throne. And that Aegon is no one, truly (not a faceless man I just had to write it like that to amuse myself...) It would be great writing and irony if (f)Aegon was the boy given away by his father for Arbor Gold. That said it is highly unlikely that he is not some sort of Targ or at the very least a non-targ son of Illyrio based on all the evidence so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well perhaps I am being too harsh on him considering his youth...but still I don't think Aegon was worth the hype. He's older than Dany and Jon. I agree that we shouldn't criticise Aegon for his behaviour on the boat, Having a little strop while playing Cyvasse doesn't really mean anything. Everything he does after he leaves Tyrion indicates that he'll be quite a good leader/warrior/king. Everything's set up perfectly for Aegon - as long as he gets Dorne on side then it's hard to see how he won't win the throne. What exactly is that? The only thing he's done after Tyrion left was to go "let's go conquer Westeros now!!!!" and "I will lead the attack!" You don't need a lot of smarts and kingly wisdom for that. We don't know if he'll get Dorne on his side, even though they are already predisposed to be on his side, especially now that the Quentyn plan fell through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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