N/A Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 We've never had a woman president - or vice president. I'm kind of fine with not being sent to war until that gets straightened out.hey it's your system and your votes ,no? start a female party or something , it's popular choice after all , putin suits me just fine for now ...hmm, but you're fine with your brother , father , cousin , husband being sent to war then call for equal rights ... strange people really :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 also, when a girl smacks a random guy's ass nobody cares but when a guy smacks a random girls ass EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SHIT!Also thishttp://persephonemagazine.com/2012/05/takedown-gender-equality-is-a-joke/gender-equality/ Cersei fingered Taena without her consent. No one seems to care about it :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 No. You can debate that as being sexism, but "misogyny" explicitly means the hatred of women. And the poster I quoted posited that misogyny (i.e. the hatred of women) "often works in women's favor." Which, you must surely see, is nonsensical. I think h/she meant that the alleged misogyny in GoT actually favours women, hence, it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Also, I don't particularly feel it was whitewashing, but seriously, sexual punishment is just not something anyone should be advocating. From castration to shame walks. for fuck's sake, how is this even an issue. Punishment fits the crime. TEXAS JUSTICE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy the Ruin Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Cersei fingered Taena without her consent. No one seems to care about it :/oh yeah, funny how the OP neglects to mention how Cersei forces herself on Taena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I don't believe anyone is debating whether rape or torture are wrong. The debate is whether Cersei deseved the walk of shame, if that constitutes torture, and has now veered into what is the line between rape and bad sex in an arranged marriage. It's also a bit interesting that the OP seems to have no problem with vigilante justice that entails murder, as long as the murderer is an abuse victim, which seems a bit strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I don't know, I don't think it's wrong to rape and torture people who raped and tortured people. In fact I say go for it, but hey I grew up in Texas and we actually like to dispense justice ;D Just want to make clear to everyone out there that this bozo is not the norm. We Texans as a whole do not approve of eye-for-an-eye justice. The average Texan understands the difference between justice and bozo dumb asshole shit. For example, raping rapists is not condoned. Punishment fits the crime. TEXAS JUSTICE! Please, just go back to your basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I think h/she meant that the alleged misogyny in GoT actually favours women, hence, it's not. I should have said sexist, my mistake But what I say still stands, just replace misogyny with sexism or whatevs ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I think h/she meant that the alleged misogyny in GoT actually favours women, hence, it's not. On the grounds that a WOS is less suffering than another sort of punishment that would have happened to a male? So it's based on the suffering olympics, which is in turn based on the premise that levels of suffering can be quantified, and awards more points for physical abuse above sexual and psychological? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 No. You can debate that as being sexism, but "misogyny" explicitly means the hatred of women. And the poster I quoted posited that misogyny (i.e. the hatred of women) "often works in women's favor." Which, you must surely see, is nonsensical. Sexism has more to do with diversification between genders, and the word you're looking for, I think. Also, I don't particularly feel it was whitewashing, but seriously, sexual punishment is just not something anyone should be advocating. From castration to shame walks. for fuck's sake, how is this even an issue. Well, there's a lot of "it was normal there" debate I saw. But the thing is, these sorts of themes and questions are exactly what Martin's asking us to question. We're being invited to challenge these sorts of views and punishments just as all of the characters are doing themselves, from torture, to sexual violence, to classism, to good old fashioned sexism.ya i agree , what i meant was to clarify . anyway , I'm sure you don't actually believe I'm advocating such . I'm merely saying that i don't feel sympathy for Cersei , op disregard that Cersei was abusive to Robert , and painted her snow angel white , saying that she was right to kill Robert and that he was an abuser and a rapist from the get go also denying Cersei's poisonous effect i cannot remember the rest and I'm running low on battery , if you wish to continue this , pm me and I'll try to respond quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimecersei Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 You don't seem to be enjoying it all considering you don't really understand the context.Is Cersei's duty to provide heirs to Robert. The only way for her to provided him is by having sex. Such sex occurs after she gets her legs apart. She knows she HAS to have sex with him, she always knew and she thought it would be a different thing that what she actually got because Robert didn't even called her by the right name. Robert's duty is also having heirs. Or do you think he gets any pleasure by sleeping with a woman he obviously hates? He prefers whores to his own wife yet, he has to have sex with her. Or do you think that man are all the same and they don't mind where they stick their dongs?The sex is dutiful for the both of us, it's pretty much "their job". It's not the same for Ned and Cat who apparently, enjoy sex just for the sake of it (although probably it wasn't like this at first), and yet, Cat still thinks she would love to have another child. Arianne and Dany also have free sex but none of them is a Queen yet, they have no dynastic obligations to a kingdom.You seem to want Cersei to have a 2014 mentality and she doesn't. She says Sansa herself: sex is a weapon, sex for her is a way to get what she wants and needs. Any modern women today would tell otherwise and probably felt offended by the statement. Cersei never talks about using her power to learn how to be a better ruler, or a better person. She thinks she simply can open her legs to get what she wants, either more power of pleasure. There, that's your "victim". No I'm not misunderstanding anything. I completely understand the purpose of arrange marriages in Westeros but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Fuck I don't GRRM agrees with it, considering how many people end up suffering because of it. Sansa suffers from it.Elia suffers from it.Dany suffers from it.Cersei suffers from it. To an extent Tyrion suffers from it as Tywin ordered Tysha to be gangraped (a common woman that Tyrion had married from his OWN choice), and also when Sansa can never truly trust him or love him because he's part of the family that destroyed the Starks. Also I would liked to note that TYRION NEVER RAPED SANSA WHEN SANSA REFUSED HIM. because Tyrion is a better person than Robert. And quoting Cersei isn't going to get you anywhere. Cersei is filled with internalized misogyny. She had no actual female role models in her life and she hated that Tywin treated her and Jaime differently. With no women around her, having Tywin as a dad, and living in Westeros did her no favors. Cersei is WRONG when she says that sex is a woman's only weapon. From the various women we've seen in this series, it is pretty clear that sex is not a woman's only weapon. She is NEVER ABLE TO REALIZE how wonderful women really are and THAT IS HER TRAGEDY. instead of hating on the system,she ALLIES with it because she knows no other way and THAT IS HER TRAGEDY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 On the grounds that a WOS is less suffering than another sort of punishment that would have happened to a male? So it's based on the suffering olympics, which is in turn based on the premise that levels of suffering can be quantified, and awards more points for physical abuse above sexual and psychological?op said that WOS was worse than what theon got , i mean come on ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimecersei Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Cersei fingered Taena without her consent. No one seems to care about it :/ Cersei sexually abused Taena and it was wrong as fuck. Cersei is a terrible person there is no denying it. the point here isn't to defend her crimes, it is to say that we as readers should know better than Cersei and should NOT CONDONE SADISTIC EVIL ACTS because ultimately these acts are only spreading more suffering and pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Cersei sexually abused Taena and it was wrong as fuck. Cersei is a terrible person there is no denying it. the point here isn't to defend her crimes, it is to say that we as readers should know better than Cersei and should NOT CONDONE SADISTIC EVIL ACTS because ultimately these acts are only spreading more suffering and pain Of course, as readers. As an eyeball viewing everything from above though... This is the land of fiction. Make the bad men/women fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 On the grounds that a WOS is less suffering than another sort of punishment that would have happened to a male? So it's based on the suffering olympics, which is in turn based on the premise that levels of suffering can be quantified, and awards more points for physical abuse above sexual and psychological? Punish is punish. Confinement, Walk or Wall is still something that degrades a human being. But again, the punishment for men aren't compared for punishment for women et all. Men have: Castration Exile The Wall Lose titles, properties, money. Severing of limbs, fingers Beheading Fight for their lives in trial combat. I'm quite sure that Tyrion, Ned, Theon and many other men there had gladly chosen to walk naked around the whole fucking Westeros instead of suffering what they suffered, unless you think men can get raped either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Also as for NOT QUANTIFYING SUFFERING You guys are basically saying that Walks of Shame are worse for women than they are for men, which is equating their levels of suffering. Which I totally agree with doing and agree that it's worse, but still you're being rather hypocritical OP ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paeon Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 The walk of shame accomplished its goal, and that was to break an extremely strong willed and prideful woman. However was it as bad as chopping off Ned's head? Nope. Cersei is still alive, although with a severely wounded pride. Theon on the other hand has been physically tortured to the point that he can barely remember who he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys Ahai Reborn Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 the point here isn't to defend her crimes, it is to say that we as readers should know better than Cersei and should NOT CONDONE SADISTIC EVIL ACTS because ultimately these acts are only spreading more suffering and pain And what acts are these? The act of "making" her do the walk? Nope. that didn't happen. So the act of giving her the choice to do the walk? That wasn't for sadistic or evil reasons. So what sadistic, evil acts are we condoning? Robert's "rapes" of her? I don't think we have enough knowledge of that, besides Cersei's own bias PoVs. And nor were these sadistic, evil acts imo even if they truely were rapes. Yes, rape is evil, but it is more complicated than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I'm reminded of an experimental thread I started a while back on suitable punishments for the Freys. Two thirds of respondents were broadly in favour of the sane option (i.e. punish the perpetrators of the Red Wedding, but let the rest go free), while the remaining third were actually advocating killing every last descendent of Lord Walder, regardless of whether or not they were innocent, whether they were children, whether they were overseas at the time, or whether they actually even had the Frey surname. When one third of posters are willing to advocate the murder of children, it is little surprise that disturbing attitudes towards rape and torture exist as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimecersei Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Punish is punish. Confinement, Walk or Wall is still something that degrades a human being. But again, the punishment for men aren't compared for punishment for women et all. Men have: Castration Exile The Wall Lose titles, properties, money. Severing of limbs, fingers Beheading Fight for their lives in trial combat. I'm quite sure that Tyrion, Ned, Theon and many other men there had gladly chosen to walk naked around the whole fucking Westeros instead of suffering what they suffered, unless you think men can get raped either. Are we seriously going to into oppression olympics now?? The Walk of Shame was pschological sexual torture, it broke Cersei just like it would break any other person. arguing what kind of trauma is worse isn't going to get you anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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